Less than 10000 dead in 10 yrs in Irag/Afg

Discussion in 'Media' started by ginscpy, Jul 4, 2011.

  1. ginscpy
    Offline

    ginscpy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    7,950
    Thanks Received:
    213
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +216
    That is NOTHING compared to the standards of most wars.

    Even our own - we try to keep down casualties .

    The Russians lost 20 million in WW2.

    We have becomewusses.
     
  2. Iridescence
    Offline

    Iridescence BANNED

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,695
    Thanks Received:
    268
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    US
    Ratings:
    +268
    Perhaps it is just that we have gotten better at what we do.... saving individuals from themselves.... :confused: even if it is by declaring war.
     
  3. ginscpy
    Offline

    ginscpy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    7,950
    Thanks Received:
    213
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +216
    We don't like casualties.
     
  4. whitehall
    Online

    whitehall Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    27,828
    Thanks Received:
    4,343
    Trophy Points:
    290
    Location:
    Western Va.
    Ratings:
    +10,798
    Better and faster medical treatment is certainly a factor but on the other hand democrats have tied the Military's hands in this conflict to such an extent that American lives are lost because of the chain of command that is required to authorize a single shot to be fired. 30 Million civilians were killed in WW2 and today the liberal elite want to charge Soldiers and Marines with murder if a civilian is caught in a crossfire. The late democrat congressman John Murtha was quick to call Marines "murderers" when civilians were killed and democrat senator John (I served in VietNam) Kerry called Soldiers "terrorists" while a republican was in the White House.
     
  5. PoliticalChic
    Online

    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    55,835
    Thanks Received:
    15,671
    Trophy Points:
    2,190
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Ratings:
    +24,995
    Interesting topic..and interesting take on the topic, although it appears you have your tongue firmly placed in your cheek.

    Hanson gave an interesting lecture on the topic.

    The Future of Western War by Victor Davis Hanson
    Lecture @ Hillsdale College, 10/1/09

    1. War is a human enterprise; the essence of war is human nature.

    2. The “West” is the culture that originated in Greece, spread to Rome, permeated Northern Europe, was incorporated by the Anglo-Saxon tradition, spread through British expansionism, and is associated today primarily with Europe, the United States, and the former commonwealth countries of Britain- as well as, to some extent, nations like Taiwan, Japan and South Korea, which have incorporated some Western ideas.

    3. Western ideas include a commitment to constitutional or limited government, freedom of the individual, religious freedom in a sense that precluded religious tyranny, respect for property rights, faith in free markets, and an openness to rationalism or to the explanation of natural phenomena through reason. Combined in various ways, these ideas, the resultant system creates more prosperity and affluence than any other. While the above did not exist in all places at all times, the blueprint for free government existed in the West in a way that it didn’t elsewhere.

    4. Further, there are traditional checks on the Western way of war that have intensified today.
    a) The attempts to limit the ferocity of war through rules and regulation. The Greeks tried to outlaw arrows and catapults, the Romans the export of breast plates, poison gas in WWII, and nuclear non-proliferation today. Unfortunately, the West is not able to tell the rest of the world how to make war, Iran: far from a constitutional democracy. Add to this, the many Westerners who feel guilt about their wealth, prosperity, and leisure, and take psychological comfort in the provocations of tyrants such as Ahmadinejad.

    And, if you note the number of deaths over the timeline of history, you will find that the number of deaths relative to the number wounded, has fallen. Give medical science the nod on this one, and more folks survive injury.
     
  6. PoliticalChic
    Online

    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    55,835
    Thanks Received:
    15,671
    Trophy Points:
    2,190
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Ratings:
    +24,995
    Not just American pols, but the same is true when Israel goes to war, using house to house in place of the carpet bombing that the Russians used in Chechnya.

    A glance at earlier times offers an illustrative comparison:

    1. King Leopold’s campaign of slaughter in the Congo, and the Germans, in their colony in Southwest Africa in 1904: extermination camps to wipe out the Herero tribe….

    a. “The petition was a demand for reparations resulting from the near extermination of the Herero by the Germans during the Herero War of 1904-07. The war, although not well known in a world of far more deadly wars, was among the twentieth century's bloodiest colonial wars, killing at least sixty thousand of the eighty-thousand Herero and resulting in the German seizure of all Herero lands and cattle. As a result, Central Namibia was swept clean of black occupation, setting the stage for the creation of the European agricultural economy that prevails today.” The Legal Claim for German Reparations to the Herero Nation

    2. The "new" morality did away with the old-fashioned insistence on distinguishing between the guilty and the innocent. What an advance, what progress in the search for freedom! Lenin’s orders: “Shoot more professors!” (Berman, “Terror and Liberalism,”p.43)…even Saint-Just had never given such an order! Bolsheviks willingness to put to death random crowds without knowing their political view….why, they were merely following Baudelaire’s directive, ‘In politics, the true saint is the man who uses his whip and kills the people for their own good.” The Atheist Conservative: » The cultivation of evil, the sickness of Europe

    Civilized folks no longer behave that way.
     
  7. midcan5
    Offline

    midcan5 liberal / progressive

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Messages:
    10,790
    Thanks Received:
    2,367
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Location:
    Philly, PA
    Ratings:
    +3,303
    "Let's see, I'm dead and you, an alive person are saying I don't count because I am only one person? Do you feel that way about your family too, yourself? Can you join me, if you feel that way you surely don't count for much, and since I can never see my loved ones or see another day you too should never see another day. See you in hell as your soul is too empty for any other zip code." signed, the dead one who doesn't count

    The dead would call it a failure. The children without parents would call it a failure. The maimed would call it a failure. And if we are so callous we ignore the unnecessary deaths, our entire society materially would call it a failure for its great waste.


    Once Upon a Time...: Trapped in the Wrong Paradigm: Three Handy Rules

    "I repeat: the entire war and occupation are immoral. If you criticize the Bush administration on the grounds that it "bungled" the war, this leaves one, and only one, inevitable implication: if they had prosecuted the war and occupation "competently," then you would have no complaints whatsoever. That is: you think the invasion and occupation of Iraq were justified and moral. If that's what you actually think, you belong in the Bush camp. You're arguing over managerial style, and about issues that are entirely trivial."


    A team of American and Iraqi epidemiologists estimates that 655,000 more people have died in Iraq since coalition forces arrived in March 2003 than would have died if the invasion had not occurred.

    The Missing Moral Center: Murdering the Innocent

    "If you have ever wondered how a serial murderer -- a murderer who is sane and fully aware of the acts he has committed -- can remain steadfastly convinced of his own moral superiority and show not even the slightest glimmer of remorse, you should not wonder any longer." Once Upon a Time...: The Missing Moral Center: Murdering the Innocent
     
  8. PoliticalChic
    Online

    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    55,835
    Thanks Received:
    15,671
    Trophy Points:
    2,190
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Ratings:
    +24,995
    1. "...A team of American and Iraqi epidemiologists estimates that 655,000 ..."

    So stipulated: you will believe any Left-wing propaganda.

    2. "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. "

    John Stuart Mill


    3. Why do I have the feeling that if one of your favs, like Jim Wallis decided that a particular war would suit his purposes, you'd be right there.

    We've seen this before: the communists in America before Mother Russia was attacked.

    Another indication of the subservience of the communists to a foreign government can be seen during WWII. At the behest of the Commintern, as the archives reveals, the American Peace Mobilization committee was formed in April of ’41. It’s function was to support the Soviet line, bring progressives aboard, protest against the lend-lease program to aid Britain…they paraded in front of the White House, chanting “FDR is a fascist, …he’s starting a war!’ They managed to dupe the easiest group to dupe: progressive pastors. The NYTimes article at the time said “Clergyman Group Opposes War Aid!’

    a. In mid-protest, on June 22, 1941, they became pro-war! The Germans had broken their agreement with the Soviets, and invaded Russia! Suddenly the group was for lend-lease, and FDR wasn’t a fascist…and they changed their name to American People’s Mobilization.

    b. The HUAC had exposed this group as “…one of the most seditious and subversive front groups.”
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  9. ginscpy
    Offline

    ginscpy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    7,950
    Thanks Received:
    213
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +216
    America is casualty shy in wars
     
  10. Truthseeker420
    Offline

    Truthseeker420 Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    10,365
    Thanks Received:
    980
    Trophy Points:
    138
    Location:
    Home of the 2013 BCS National Champion
    Ratings:
    +1,026
    There is a difference between fighting a WW and attacking(Ganging up) an already decimated Iraqi army.
     

Share This Page