Leftist Shock Doctrine

[Cecilie1200]

Editec knows his history. Hell, he lived though enough of it.

Do you?

Apparently no.

And you're thinking what? That everyone else just dropped in out of nowhere this afternoon? We all lived through history, dumbass. SOME of us remember it, and apply logic to it.

Nixon was not a conservative by today's standards, and he wasn't a conservative by the standards of his time. Had he not offended the left by opposing communist spying while in Congress, he would have been the type of Republican the media delights in describing as a "maverick" and fawns over until he becomes of no further use to their agenda. See: John McCain.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Editec knows his history. Hell, he lived though enough of it.

Do you?

Apparently no.

yes, asshole, i know history
its YOU that doesnt

btw, you arent the only one that LIVED through it
so stop with your bullshit

If you have a point germane to the issue, by all means do try to make it.

I suggested that much of what Nixxon did, would, by the standards of today's clueless conservative crowd, make him a screaming liberal.

You disagree?

Okay, the Clean Air act. Nixon.

Wage and price controls, Nixon.

Do they sound like something today's so-called conservatives would approve of?

You see, DiveCon, the way one debates is that someone posit as hypothesis.

The way to debate that isn't merely to suggest that the person who posited that hypothoses doesn't knpw what he's talking about, but to support your refuation with facts or logic.

Try it in this case, if you dare.

Otherwise, don't waste your time trying to engage me in a mindless bout of name calling.

Put up or shut the fuck up.

I grow weary of nincompoopism like yours.

I don't believe anyone's arguing that Nixon didn't behave like a hard-right conservative, dolt. The argument is your inane classification of him as a conservative DESPITE the fact that he didn't act like one, and no one - except agenda-driven leftists - ever called him one.

 

[Cecilie1200]

no, i disagree that there has been a change in conservative values
Nixon was NEVER seen as conservative, EVER


and everyone is sick of your condescending bullshit

You're a friggin moron...seriously.

I love how the right disowns thier own in hindsight. Nixon was a dick but he was actually a conservative. Probably the only half-way decent one of the last century.

no, ravi, its YOU that is the moron
Nixon was never a conservative
he was a moderate

Just having Ravi refer to him as "halfway decent" would disqualify Nixon from classification as a conservative. No REAL conservative would ever do anything that the likes of Ravi would approve.

 

[DiveCon]

You're a friggin moron...seriously.

I love how the right disowns thier own in hindsight. Nixon was a dick but he was actually a conservative. Probably the only half-way decent one of the last century.

no, ravi, its YOU that is the moron
Nixon was never a conservative
he was a moderate

Just having Ravi refer to him as "halfway decent" would disqualify Nixon from classification as a conservative. No REAL conservative would ever do anything that the likes of Ravi would approve.

yup, shes a total moron

 

[Ravi]

Conservatives by definition are moderate. They conserve. They aren't right wing nut jobs, they aren't libertarians.

moron, you still think Bush was a conservative

I never thought he was a conservative. There are very few conservatives in the Republican party.

 

[Ravi]

Conservatives by definition are moderate. They conserve. They aren't right wing nut jobs, they aren't libertarians.

False... Conservatives are by Definition: Americans. Conservatives stand on NOTHING BUT THE BED-ROCK PRINCIPLE OF THE AMERICAN FOUNDING and principle doesn't BEND... Principle doesn't compromise... Principle doesn't concede to the whimsy of popular opinion. And as such, neither do AMERICANS!

You aren't a conservative.

 

[rayboyusmc]

As we keep saying, conservatives just think liberals are stupid and misled. Liberals insist on believing that conservatives are evil.

Can we say "cognitive dissonance" my Dear? That is total crap. What a delusional world you must live in.

I will repeat this again: the extremes of both sides fit your last description. Talk about living on the River Denile.

What you are saying is that conservatives are logical rational folks while liberals (who outnumber you) are the crazy ones.

I will say Cheney is evil. That is not saying all conservatives are evil like your post says about all liberals. Cheney is an evil little man who sees the whole world in his own suspicious personality.

 

[DiamondDave]

Conservatives by definition are moderate. They conserve. They aren't right wing nut jobs, they aren't libertarians.

I have to give you partial credit on this one....

Conservatives are not moderate by definition... but neither are they RW by definition...

 

[editec]

yes, asshole, i know history
its YOU that doesnt

btw, you arent the only one that LIVED through it
so stop with your bullshit

If you have a point germane to the issue, by all means do try to make it.

I suggested that much of what Nixxon did, would, by the standards of today's clueless conservative crowd, make him a screaming liberal.

You disagree?

Okay, the Clean Air act. Nixon.

Wage and price controls, Nixon.

Do they sound like something today's so-called conservatives would approve of?

You see, DiveCon, the way one debates is that someone posit as hypothesis.

The way to debate that isn't merely to suggest that the person who posited that hypothoses doesn't knpw what he's talking about, but to support your refuation with facts or logic.

Try it in this case, if you dare.

Otherwise, don't waste your time trying to engage me in a mindless bout of name calling.

Put up or shut the fuck up.

I grow weary of nincompoopism like yours.

no, i disagree that there has been a change in conservative values
Nixon was NEVER seen as conservative, EVER


and everyone is sick of your condescending bullshit

I note that you have, per usual, nothing to support your arguments except you childish insistence that you are right.

Instead of spewing your ignorant nonsense and attempting to insult your betters who are schooling you, you might be better served sitting down and reading a book or something.

 

[del]

If you have a point germane to the issue, by all means do try to make it.

I suggested that much of what Nixxon did, would, by the standards of today's clueless conservative crowd, make him a screaming liberal.

You disagree?

Okay, the Clean Air act. Nixon.

Wage and price controls, Nixon.

Do they sound like something today's so-called conservatives would approve of?

You see, DiveCon, the way one debates is that someone posit as hypothesis.

The way to debate that isn't merely to suggest that the person who posited that hypothoses doesn't knpw what he's talking about, but to support your refuation with facts or logic.

Try it in this case, if you dare.

Otherwise, don't waste your time trying to engage me in a mindless bout of name calling.

Put up or shut the fuck up.

I grow weary of nincompoopism like yours.

no, i disagree that there has been a change in conservative values
Nixon was NEVER seen as conservative, EVER


and everyone is sick of your condescending bullshit

I note that you have, per usual, nothing to support your arguments except you childish insistence that you are right.

Instead of spewing your ignorant nonsense and attempting to insult your betters who are scooling you, you might be better served sitting down and reading a book or something.

scooling?

sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[editec]

Editec knows his history. Hell, he lived though enough of it.

Do you?

Apparently no.

And you're thinking what? That everyone else just dropped in out of nowhere this afternoon? We all lived through history, dumbass. SOME of us remember it, and apply logic to it.

Proably true, but Dive Con is not of that class, as should be evident by his posts.

Nixon was not a conservative by today's standards, and he wasn't a conservative by the standards of his time.

I could easily sign onto that theory. But by the standards of HIS day, he was most assurdedly a conservative.

Had he not offended the left by opposing communist spying while in Congress, he would have been the type of Republican the media delights in describing as a "maverick" and fawns over until he becomes of no further use to their agenda. See: John McCain.

Bobbie Keneddy and Nixxon were both cold warriors, actually.

People grew to loathe Nixon for things beyond that, I think.

None of this is relevant to my original point, however.

By the standards of today's so-called conservatives, NiXXon would be thought a screaming liberal.

Don't you find it rather odd that the so-called conservavtives of tdoay, keep denying that the people that so-called conservatives put into office are conservatives?

Nixon is, according to Pubbie, not a conservative.

Bush II is, according to some here, not a conservative either.

You guys seem to have trouble indentifying real conservatives BEFORE you elect them.

Why is that?

 

[DiamondDave]

He'll collect that book when you die and your goods are redistributed by the government in equal shares to all, like in the system you support

 

[Old Rocks]

Editec knows his history. Hell, he lived though enough of it.

Do you?

Apparently no.

And you're thinking what? That everyone else just dropped in out of nowhere this afternoon? We all lived through history, dumbass. SOME of us remember it, and apply logic to it.

Nixon was not a conservative by today's standards, and he wasn't a conservative by the standards of his time. Had he not offended the left by opposing communist spying while in Congress, he would have been the type of Republican the media delights in describing as a "maverick" and fawns over until he becomes of no further use to their agenda. See: John McCain.

Now that's about as stupid of a statement as I have seen posted. It was Goldwater that told Nixon because of the laws he had broken, that he had better resign, or be impeached. Goldwater told him that he had lost the support of even the Republican Party.

Nixon directed criminal acts that were a violation of Constitutional law. That had nothing at all to do with communtists of any other outside influence. He was paranoid about inside opposition, legal opposition.

 

[Red Dawn]

You're a friggin moron...seriously.

I love how the right disowns thier own in hindsight. Nixon was a dick but he was actually a conservative. Probably the only half-way decent one of the last century.

no, ravi, its YOU that is the moron
Nixon was never a conservative
he was a moderate

Just having Ravi refer to him as "halfway decent" would disqualify Nixon from classification as a conservative. No REAL conservative would ever do anything that the likes of Ravi would approve.

Nixon was a criminal, even if he did some progressive things.

But, libs will happily take Eishenhower, Lincoln, and Teddy Roosevelt if you want to throw them under the train, and remain the party of George Bush, Jesse Helms, Ronald Reagan, and Jerry Falwwell.

 

[Care4all]

Come on Toro, no mainstream American politician is going to do anything other than support and defend capitalism. The right wing Democratic Party may whimper about better regulation (pussies) but they are not going to try and do anything other than timidly try to bolster regulation. They will be frightened off from that task and they will pretend to institute reform.

The GOP is irrelevant because they're still trying to work out if they should appeal to the supporters of God or Mammon so they're out of the picture.

The GOP are not in government, they're not capable even of giving a policy position, they're in complete disarray. Bobby Jindal anyone? The Democratic Party is saving capitalism by default.

Capitalism, as you know, has built within it the boom/bust cycle and occasionally the big one (is Kondratiev still acknowledged or has he been pooh-poohed?) will come along as it has now. But the Dems aren't socialists, much to the disappointment of those who froth at the mouth when they hit the keys, so capitalism will be healed this time around.

Generally, the right wants less government interference in the economy whereas the left wants more. Regardless of whether the Democrats are "right" on some global political spectrum - they are "left" on the American political spectrum - the policy responses to the financial crisis of the Democrat party is for more government involvement in the economy, not less.

But what was the $700 billion President Bush and Paulson insisted on or the whole world's economy would collapse....were those two democrats? Were all the people and CEO's at the banks begging for the bailout and government intervention to help them Democrats?

I think you are wrong on the bold part, just a fallacy conservatives have convinced others to believe....but CLEARLY NOT TRUE, and this bailout proves it!

 

[Zoom-boing]

Come on Toro, no mainstream American politician is going to do anything other than support and defend capitalism. The right wing Democratic Party may whimper about better regulation (pussies) but they are not going to try and do anything other than timidly try to bolster regulation. They will be frightened off from that task and they will pretend to institute reform.

The GOP is irrelevant because they're still trying to work out if they should appeal to the supporters of God or Mammon so they're out of the picture.

The GOP are not in government, they're not capable even of giving a policy position, they're in complete disarray. Bobby Jindal anyone? The Democratic Party is saving capitalism by default.

Capitalism, as you know, has built within it the boom/bust cycle and occasionally the big one (is Kondratiev still acknowledged or has he been pooh-poohed?) will come along as it has now. But the Dems aren't socialists, much to the disappointment of those who froth at the mouth when they hit the keys, so capitalism will be healed this time around.

Generally, the right wants less government interference in the economy whereas the left wants more. Regardless of whether the Democrats are "right" on some global political spectrum - they are "left" on the American political spectrum - the policy responses to the financial crisis of the Democrat party is for more government involvement in the economy, not less.

But what was the $700 billion President Bush and Paulson insisted on or the whole world's economy would collapse....were those two democrats? Were all the people and CEO's at the banks begging for the bailout and government intervention to help them Democrats?

I think you are wrong on the bold part, just a fallacy conservatives have convinced others to believe....but CLEARLY NOT TRUE, and this bailout proves it!

I thought they were democrat-lite. There was nothing conservative about Bush's bailout.

 

[midcan5]

Really? That's HYSTERICAL... Charleton Heston walked arm in arm with The good Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King... Last I heard he qualified as a "Right Winger'

Ronald Reagan was national leader of the Labor Rights movement... It would be very interesting to see someone categorize Reagan as anything short of a HARD CORE RIGHT WINGER...

The simple fact is that Right wingers WERE suffrage, civil rights and the labor movement. We were the ones advocating that EACH be recognized on the BED-ROCK PRINCIPLES of Inalienable HUMAN RIGHTS; stating that with one's rights come responsibility and that where one bears the burden of the responsibility, one's rights cannot not be denied; that they MUST be acknowledged and that Right and Responsibility are INSEPERABLE....

The above post wins the award for the "Most Revisionist Nonsense" I have ever heard. I would even extend that to the most revisionist nonsense anyone has ever heard. Heston was a wacko at the end, and whether at one time he walked with King is irrelevant. Your second point is so absurd, the absurdity meter broke. Reagan fired union workers who had a right to strike, that action began the decline of the middle class in America as now corporations could do as they pleased. I was there and saw it firsthand.

Right wing ideologues are pro corporation and as such totally conflict with labor. You know absolutely no real history, get out of your echo chamber and think.

I doubt PubliusInfinitum will change when your ideas are this wrong, but it is important that an attempt is made to correct this nonsense. Readers and those interested in truth can consult some of the links below. Not all truths are completely true but thought and information helps.

A Short History of Conservative Obstruction to Progress | Conceptual Guerilla

Ronald Reagan and Medicare

Conservatism Is Dead
The Political Scene: The Fall of Conservatism: Reporting & Essays: The New Yorker
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Would-Never-Ever-Republican/dp/1419697595/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234527774&sr=1-1]Amazon.com: Why Jesus Would Never, Ever Vote Republican: Richard John Siviur: Books[/ame]
A Short History of Conservative Obstruction to Progress | Conceptual Guerilla
The Conservative Nanny State
What Is Conservatism and What Is Wrong with It?
"Why Conservatives Can't Govern" by Alan Wolfe
Paul Craig Roberts: The Mother of All Messes


"What improves the circumstances of the greater part can never be regarded as an inconveniency to the whole. No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable." Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations

 

[bthoma91]

Come on Toro, no mainstream American politician is going to do anything other than support and defend capitalism. The right wing Democratic Party may whimper about better regulation (pussies) but they are not going to try and do anything other than timidly try to bolster regulation. They will be frightened off from that task and they will pretend to institute reform.

The GOP is irrelevant because they're still trying to work out if they should appeal to the supporters of God or Mammon so they're out of the picture.

The GOP are not in government, they're not capable even of giving a policy position, they're in complete disarray. Bobby Jindal anyone? The Democratic Party is saving capitalism by default.

Capitalism, as you know, has built within it the boom/bust cycle and occasionally the big one (is Kondratiev still acknowledged or has he been pooh-poohed?) will come along as it has now. But the Dems aren't socialists, much to the disappointment of those who froth at the mouth when they hit the keys, so capitalism will be healed this time around.

HAHA you honestly believe what the libs are doing is capitalist? you honestly think the democratic party are trying to save capitalism? youre crazy.

 

[jillian]

Absolutely laughable

Liberals are not trying to make society "just"... they are trying to make the society UNJUST by manipulating the outcome of effort and benefiting the lazy, underachieving, and those who have failed in an attempt to earn their favor so that they can gain more power through government

The Conservatives don't only strive for market forces, but the freedom that has the possibility of success and failure, and to support the personal responsibility therein

The funny thing is that we are not where we are because the market "was left to it's own devices"... but that is yet another myth the liberals try and say over and over again in an attempt to have the gullible believe them.. and the more they can say it, the more they will scream they have the answer by punishing those who do have some success, and get the gullible voted to hand over more power to the government

you need to put down the kool aid.

Liberals are responsible for every advance society has ever made. If it were not for "liberals", we would still be under church rule in the Dark Ages and this country wouldn't exist because the people who founded it were radicals. The conservatives of that day were Tories.

Reality: Liberals want to move society ahead and have an equal application of rights and privileges... in other words, a level playing field. Conservatives, who are actual conservatives and not the fire breathing "jesus is a republican" types, are the people who are supposed to, under ideal circumstances, say "whoa, nellie, slow down, pay attention and look at what you're doing before you go galavanting into new territory". I see them as kind of the bankers of the political world... the smart guys in the room who are supposed to make you assess and be a little more cautious.

Unfortunately, that concept of conservatism has been perverted by neo-cons and right wing reactionaries who call themselves conservatives.

But the truth is, if conservatives had their way in toto, we'd still belive the earth was flat since it was a radical idea to believe otherwise.

Awesome troll post! Keep it up!

bummer for you everything in their was accurate.

 

[DiamondDave]

You honestly believe that 'liberals are responsible for every advancement society has made'??

You're showing signs of a severe brainwashing, jill

It was not a post of accuracy, but rather a post of baseless crapola and slogans