Leftist! Rightist! STOP! Those terms are meaningless.

[ShackledNation]

The terms "left" and "right" in the sense they are used today in America are completely meaningless and useless when discussing anything.

What is left? What is right? These terms to not refer to any foundation of principle, because they constantly change meaning over time. In fact, in many respects what was once left has become right, and vice versa. Placing people on a spectrum of left to right is like trying to measure an object using a ruler with the space between each unit of measurement constantly changing.

Conservative once meant restoring the "Old Order" of the Ancien Régime (i.e. statism, feudalism, big government, and mercantilism). The terms "liberal" and even "progressive" meant removing government interference from all aspects of human life, advocating economic liberty, personal liberty, and a non-interventionist foreign policy.

Furthermore, having a spectrum of left and right assumes that one is the opposite of the other. Yet it is impossible to argue that complete government control over personal life (radical social rightist) is the opposite of complete government control over the economy (radical economic leftist). The two both involve giving government power over the individual. How can the same means be viewed as polar opposites?

We should instead use a system of measurement that is consistent throughout time. On one end you have anarchy, the other you have totalitarianism.

If you view politics this way, you will realize how completely inconsistent both Republicans and Democrats are in their views, which vary on the spectrum depending on the issue. Ultimately, we have two big goverment parties paying lip service to the old "liberal" (meaning freedom) ways of the past. Until people realize this, there is no hope for changing anything.

 

[ShackledNation]

Thoughts?

How do you define left and right, if at all?

 

[occupied]

The political compass is an enlightening look at the more modern two axis way of looking at political ideology. I have tried in vain to bring it into similar discussions many times but conservatives have a difficult time adding a dimension to their one dimensional thinking.

The Political Compass

 

[ShackledNation]

The political compass is an enlightening look at the more modern two axis way of looking at political ideology. I have tried in vain to bring it into similar discussions many times but conservatives have a difficult time adding a dimension to their one dimensional thinking.

The Political Compass

The political compass is definitely a much better way of looking at things. My only problem with it is that it still uses terms like conservative and liberal in the traditional american sense, and the actual test itself is full of questions with premises I disagree with.

 

[dblack]

The political compass is an enlightening look at the more modern two axis way of looking at political ideology. I have tried in vain to bring it into similar discussions many times but conservatives have a difficult time adding a dimension to their one dimensional thinking.

The Political Compass

I tried taking the test, but couldn't really get very far. Almost all the questions were based on assumptions I disagreed with. For example:

"Controlling inflation is more important than controlling unemployment."

I don't think government should be doing either. How am I supposed to answer? More than half the questions posed a dilemma that seemed irrelevant to me.

 

[occupied]

The political compass is an enlightening look at the more modern two axis way of looking at political ideology. I have tried in vain to bring it into similar discussions many times but conservatives have a difficult time adding a dimension to their one dimensional thinking.

The Political Compass

The political compass is definitely a much better way of looking at things. My only problem with it is that it still uses terms like conservative and liberal in the traditional american sense.

It uses left-right as an economic scale as in the degree an economy is planned by the government and authoritarian-libertarian as a social scale as in how much a government is involved in the personal lives of it's citizens. Most self described conservatives flatly deny it because it shows America's politicians to be almost entirely in the right-authoritarian quadrant.

 

[ShackledNation]

The political compass is an enlightening look at the more modern two axis way of looking at political ideology. I have tried in vain to bring it into similar discussions many times but conservatives have a difficult time adding a dimension to their one dimensional thinking.

The Political Compass

I tried taking the test, but couldn't really get very far. Almost all the questions were based on assumptions I disagreed with. For example:

"Controlling inflation is more important than controlling unemployment."

I don't think government should be doing either. How am I supposed to answer? More than half the questions posed a dilemma that seemed irrelevant to me.

I agree, I had the same problem.

 

[occupied]

Here is another along the same lines with far fewer questions that nevertheless produces much the same results.

Advocates for Self Government

 

[dblack]

Right, that's the Nolan Chart that Libertarians have been using for decades. The quizzes are suspect on almost all of these though. It's really hard to not inject bias of one form or another. Overall though, I think it's important to recognize that the usual 'left/right' nonsense is gross oversimplification at best. At worst, it's flat-out misleading.

 

[ShackledNation]

I have always preferred the nolan chart to the political compass:
Nolan Chart Survey

 

[occupied]

Right, that's the Nolan Chart that Libertarians have been using for decades. The quizzes are suspect on almost all of these though. It's really hard to not inject bias of one form or another. Overall though, I think it's important to recognize that the usual 'left/right' nonsense is gross oversimplification at best. At worst, it's flat-out misleading.

I think a third axis should be added to indicate the theocratic level. A three dimensional matrix may be impossible to visualize for some but that at least may approach the complexity of modern political ideology.

 

[dblack]

Right, that's the Nolan Chart that Libertarians have been using for decades. The quizzes are suspect on almost all of these though. It's really hard to not inject bias of one form or another. Overall though, I think it's important to recognize that the usual 'left/right' nonsense is gross oversimplification at best. At worst, it's flat-out misleading.

I think a third axis should be added to indicate the theocratic level. A three dimensional matrix may be impossible to visualize for some but that at least may approach the complexity of modern political ideology.

Heh.. maybe. Let's just not expand to four dimensions. I don't even want to see tesseract graphs on the evening news.

 

[PredFan]

The political compass is an enlightening look at the more modern two axis way of looking at political ideology. I have tried in vain to bring it into similar discussions many times but conservatives have a difficult time adding a dimension to their one dimensional thinking.

The Political Compass

I've taken it before and i agree it's a much better way.

BTW, I always score about the same every time I take it:

Economic Left/Right 4.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian -1.33

 

[PredFan]

Here is another along the same lines with far fewer questions that nevertheless produces much the same results.

Advocates for Self Government

Of course, I'm Libertarian.

 

[PredFan]

I have always preferred the nolan chart to the political compass:
Nolan Chart Survey

No surprise; Libertarian.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Every time I take the Political Compass test, I end up somewhere around -8/-8.