Lebanon: How Will This End?

Annie

Diamond Member
Nov 22, 2003
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My guess is civil war, again:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20050310/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_syria

Pro-Syrian Lebanese Premier Reappointed

3 minutes ago Middle East - AP


By SAM F. GHATTAS, Associated Press Writer

BEIRUT, Lebanon - Lebanon's president, emboldened by a massive pro-Syria demonstration, reinstated Omar Karami as prime minister on Thursday, 10 days after the Damascus-backed leader stepped down under popular and international pressure.

Karami, who had continued to lead a caretaker government, immediately invited the opposition to join him in a national unity government. He said he will begin consultations early next week with lawmakers to form a Cabinet.

"The difficulties we all know cannot be confronted without a government of national unity and salvation," he said. "We will extend our hand and wait for the other side."

But the opposition, who orchestrated the protests that led to Karami's Feb. 28 resignation, rejected the reappointment even before it became official.

They have complained that the national unity proposal was a trap to bring opposition members into the Cabinet without giving them a say in policymaking.

Karami suggested he might not proceed if he fails in bringing to bring all factions together.

"If there is no national unity government and if I am the obstacle then I am ready to bow out," he said.

Karami's return to leadership ensures Damascus' continued dominance in Lebanon's politics.

Syria is keen to keep its hold on Lebanese decision-making as it pulls its forces back to the smaller country's eastern Bekaa Valley and negotiates with the Beirut government on the troops' full removal at a later date. Lebanese officials have said the first phase pullback, including of Syrian intelligence, would be completed by March 23.

Syrian troop redeployment was picking up pace as soldiers evacuated positions in the north and center of the country. Long convoys of dozens of Syrian trucks and buses headed east on mountain roads late Wednesday and Syrian soldiers evacuated in convoys most of their positions in the northern port of Tripoli and two hilltop positions overlooking Lebanon's second-largest city.

Syrian President Bashar Assad decided to call the troops home after three difficult weeks, with the international community and even close Arab friends Egypt and Saudi Arabia forcefully demanding that the Syrian army withdraw from Lebanon.

U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan (news - web sites) called on Syria to carry out a full withdrawal of its 14,000 troops from Lebanon and said he was sending an envoy to the region to discuss a pullout.

President Bush (news - web sites) on Wednesday kept up the intense campaign against Damascus, saying Wednesday that Syria's withdrawal plans in Lebanon are just a "a half measure" and that Syrian intelligence services exercise "heavy handed" influence in Lebanon's government.

Karami called for political dialogue and said he will try to form a Cabinet that includes all factions. He warned of "unforeseen dangerous results" to Lebanon's economy if the political vacuum and street protests persist.

"Therefore, I call on every one of all national forces to take part in a national dialogue on the table of the Cabinet and I am not putting any conditions," he said. "I will not form a Cabinet of one color."

Opposition member Samir Franjieh on Wednesday described a reappointment of Karami as a government escalation aimed at scuttling any attempts at dialogue.

"It is a step that greatly challenges the opposition and the people's feelings," said Franjieh. He did not say how the opposition plans to react.

The decision by the pro-Syrian President Emile Lahoud came after legislators, ignoring weeks of popular anti-government protests, advised the president during consultations Wednesday to rename Karami. He was virtually assured nomination after 71 of 78 legislators put forward his name, more than half of the votes required in the 128-member legislature.

Under the constitution, the president is obliged to comply with the choice of the majority of legislators.

Karami rejected suggestions that his reappointment was inspired by Syria, saying his supporters had the majority in the parliament and with the people, a reference to Tuesday's Hezbollah-organized rally in which hundreds of thousands of pro-Syrian supporters participated.

"It was a massive demonstration that asserted our legitimacy in the Lebanese street," he said.

But pan-Arab newspaper Al Hayat commented Thursday that Karami's reappointment was a "farce," wondering why the insistence on Karami.

"His staying in the same position is the first signal that those who make appointments in Lebanon are still the same and there is still no Lebanese will to change such tradition, which has hurt Syria as much as it has hurt Lebanon," wrote Abdul-Wahab Badrakhan, deputy editor of the respected London-based daily.

Karami's previous Cabinet, which governed from late October until he resigned in parliament Feb. 28, was among the most pro-Syrian government Lebanon has seen since the end of the 1975-90 civil war. U.S. officials had described Karami's Cabinet as "Made in Syria."

Karami said Thursday his new government will oversee the investigation into the Feb. 14 assassination of former Premier Rafik Hariri in order to find the culprits and "hand down the punishment they deserve."

Hariri's assassination, which the opposition blames on the Lebanese government and Syrian backers, was the catalyst for anti-Syrian protests in Lebanon and the increased international uproar against Syria. Both governments have denied involvement.
 
I've been in this country 5 years ago and discussed a lot with people.
I have understood that people I met :
- were upset by syrians vexations (merely dues to syrians secret services which in fact ruled the country) : anti-syrians ?
- fear that civil war could come again as they remenbered the attrocities of it : some of the pro-syrians ?

So long protestations (pro or anti syrians) has been pacific. We should support any action which helps Lebannais making again their country free and peaceful by and for themselves.
We should avoid anything that could export there a fight between good guys / bad guys, muslims / christians ...

Remember that the civil war envolved a lot of people which were not libannais : palestinians, israeliens, syrians.
Looks like they exported their own conflicts to the country which were peaceful until this time. let's not make so, even if it's for good reasons.
 
I'm afraid there's no stopping it---Bush has stated very clearly that we will support people anwhere who seek democracy.
 
"All the Lebanese want to know their enemy, the enemy of Lebanon ..."

Answer is easy for those that have eyes to see.

Syria has been the area peace keeper since the 1970s when Israel was driven out.

Who overthrew the government of Iran & put in the puppet government, Shah of Iran ? (Subsequently driven out by the people of Iran.)

Who subsequently armed Iraq to make war on Iran ?

Who could be interested in destabilizing Lebanon so as to drive Syria out ?

Who has recently made war threats against most countries of the middle east and the Muslim world in general ?

Who has everything to gain by killing Hariri ? ( Hint: It certainly isn't Syria.)

This is your last "clue": Who made war against Iraq based on absurd lies -- the same lies now being used against Syria?

If you haven't figured it out yet, there's little hope for you, -- look below for the answer.




answer: THE CHIMP and the United States Government. Woweeee. Surprised ? :tinfoil:
 
spillmind said:
"All the Lebanese want to know their enemy, the enemy of Lebanon ..."

Answer is easy for those that have eyes to see.

Syria has been the area peace keeper since the 1970s when Israel was driven out.

Who overthrew the government of Iran & put in the puppet government, Shah of Iran ? (Subsequently driven out by the people of Iran.)

Who subsequently armed Iraq to make war on Iran ?

Who could be interested in destabilizing Lebanon so as to drive Syria out ?

Who has recently made war threats against most countries of the middle east and the Muslim world in general ?

Who has everything to gain by killing Hariri ? ( Hint: It certainly isn't Syria.)

This is your last "clue": Who made war against Iraq based on absurd lies -- the same lies now being used against Syria?

If you haven't figured it out yet, there's little hope for you, -- look below for the answer.




answer: THE CHIMP and the United States Government. Woweeee. Surprised ? :tinfoil:

Regardless of things in the past: who is seeking to spread freedom of all kinds and who is a nation empowered by hezbollah and their oppressive tactics.
 
rtwngAvngr said:
Regardless of things in the past: who is seeking to spread freedom of all kinds and who is a nation empowered by hezbollah and their oppressive tactics.

The Bush Doctrine is the only doctrine in the past 100 years to provide positive results in the M.E., Spilly you know this do not deny it.

Lets list the countries currently enacting democratic reforms since our actions there:

Afghanistan
Iraq
Lebanon
Egypt
Qatar

Pretty successful for basically 3 years of work by any standard.
 
Syria has been keeping the peace in Lebanon? yeah right.

A country that was once 80% Christian (Lebanon) is now 20% Christian. The Syrian MUSLIMS drove them out. That is NOT keeping the peace. That is a form of national identity genocide.
 
spillmind said:
"All the Lebanese want to know their enemy, the enemy of Lebanon ..."

Answer is easy for those that have eyes to see.

Syria has been the area peace keeper since the 1970s when Israel was driven out.

Who overthrew the government of Iran & put in the puppet government, Shah of Iran ? (Subsequently driven out by the people of Iran.)

Who subsequently armed Iraq to make war on Iran ?

Who could be interested in destabilizing Lebanon so as to drive Syria out ?

Who has recently made war threats against most countries of the middle east and the Muslim world in general ?

Who has everything to gain by killing Hariri ? ( Hint: It certainly isn't Syria.)

This is your last "clue": Who made war against Iraq based on absurd lies -- the same lies now being used against Syria?

If you haven't figured it out yet, there's little hope for you, -- look below for the answer.




answer: THE CHIMP and the United States Government. Woweeee. Surprised ? :tinfoil:
Who says that liberals are apologists for terrorists, dictators and thugs? Me, that's who!
I suppose Hitler kept the peace in Germany, Poland and other occupied countries too, at least by your line of "reasoning".....

By the way, have you paid any attention to what is going on in Lebanon? I doubt it, you probably were too busy swinging from a branch or listening to Michael Blowhard Moore badmouth this country. Who is putting those people up to protesting the Syrian presence? I wouldn't be surprised to hear you claim that the CIA is behind it or that the Lebanese "aren't ready" for liberty as if the Lebanese and the people are too dull witted to want freedom, are too cowardly to put themselves in harm's way to get it, are too selfish to sacrifice something for it and that the only way they would take to the street is when the Americans poke them with a stick.

Speaking of which, this week's Weekly Standard has a photo of one of those young kids that are protesting the Syrian presence in the streets of Beirut. These kids are living in tents and risking their lives for the cause of freedom (the Syrian secret police are everywhere). I guess that suffering breeds character. Those kids sure could teach our youngsters here at home a thing or two. Unlike the privileged, spoiled and overindulged brats that pass for student antiwar protesters in this country, who take to the streets to protest a war that liberates people, who are willing patsies for dictators. I have to tell you, I feel a great sense of shame when I consider that there are 19 year olds standing up for freedom in another country like the Patriots of Old, while their American counterparts are busy helping to tear down the very cause that they stand for.

P.S. I hope that I live long enough to see the day that the only place on this planet where freedom of expression and the right to express a dissenting opinion without fear of reprisal do not exist is at http://www.democraticunderground.com !
 
freeandfun1 said:
Syria has been keeping the peace in Lebanon? yeah right.

A country that was once 80% Christian (Lebanon) is now 20% Christian. The Syrian MUSLIMS drove them out. That is NOT keeping the peace. That is a form of national identity genocide.

Not really. The demographic balance shifted in favour of Lebanese Muslims back in the 70s and the Christians refused to alter the confessional balance of the constitution accordingly until 1990 (and under Syrian duress), by which time there there had been 15 years of civil war. It's a lot more complicated than that of course, but the current demography of Lebanon cannot be blamed on Syria.
 
Sir Evil said:
Absolutely amazing Spilly! I am at a loss here, but do me a favor and tell us why you have come to this conclusion?

i thought it was pretty obvious why he came to the conclusion. He hates President Bush and thinks he is more evil than Hitler. course its all in his head. but lets just nod our heads and pretend he didnt say anything:)
 
Hristowl said:
Not really. The demographic balance shifted in favour of Lebanese Muslims back in the 70s and the Christians refused to alter the confessional balance of the constitution accordingly until 1990 (and under Syrian duress), by which time there there had been 15 years of civil war. It's a lot more complicated than that of course, but the current demography of Lebanon cannot be blamed on Syria.
It can be blamed on the Muslims within the country and their backing by the Syrian government. Period. To argue otherwise is to ignore the fact that the Christians, who did make up the majority of the country, have been driven out of the country.

Demography and emigration. Perhaps the greatest single danger facing Lebanon's Christians in the coming years is depletion through emigration and declining birth rates. It is estimated that throughout the long war years, close to 900,000 people—the vast majority of them Christians—left Lebanon. Only a fraction have since returned. To make matters worse, a dubious decree approved by Parliament in 1994 naturalized some 300,000 people (mostly Syrian Muslims), or the rough equivalent of 10 percent of Lebanon's population. If naturalization of the remaining Palestinians in the country—who are overwhelmingly Muslim—goes through as part of an overall peace settlement, then the Christians will be in dire straits. Reliable statistics are infernally hard to come by in a place like Lebanon, but the best and most optimistic estimates place the Christians today at around 40 percent of the Lebanese population.

The Forgotten Christians of Lebanon
 
rtwngAvngr said:
Regardless of things in the past: who is seeking to spread freedom of all kinds and who is a nation empowered by hezbollah and their oppressive tactics.


with all due respect, avenger, the rest of the thinking world, myself included is getting a little sick of this in the name of freedom crap.

bush didn't invent it, like al gore never claimed to invent the internet.

everyone knows these strategic moves are to establish political capital in regions that would be beneficial to the united states financial and poitical interests.

PLEASE SPARE US THIS FREEDOM CRAP. :chillpill

if and when there are elections in lebanon, don't be suprised that they lean pro syria. AND IT'S NOT BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO BE FREE
 
freeandfun1 said:
Syria has been keeping the peace in Lebanon? yeah right.

A country that was once 80% Christian (Lebanon) is now 20% Christian. The Syrian MUSLIMS drove them out. That is NOT keeping the peace. That is a form of national identity genocide.

here's a little history on the israeli and subsequently american involvement.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/1381328.stm

you really aren't getting sick of sticking your nose where it doesn't belong, are you? when the suitcase bomb comes, make sure you act REAL surprised. get angry too. hate liberals while you are at it.
 
Avatar4321 said:
i thought it was pretty obvious why he came to the conclusion. He hates President Bush and thinks he is more evil than Hitler. course its all in his head. but lets just nod our heads and pretend he didnt say anything:)


avatar, kindly STFU. you've got nothing but insults and bullshit. have a nice day.
 
spillmind said:
everyone knows these strategic moves are to establish political capital in regions that would be beneficial to the united states financial and poitical interests.

PLEASE SPARE US THIS FREEDOM CRAP. :chillpill


if and when there are elections in lebanon, don't be suprised that they lean pro syria. AND IT'S NOT BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO BE FREE

If that's the case, you might want to concern yourself with Russian "political capital" in Iran and Syria. It's interesting to see two enemies coming together wouldn't you say?
 
Hristowl said:
Not really. The demographic balance shifted in favour of Lebanese Muslims back in the 70s and the Christians refused to alter the confessional balance of the constitution accordingly until 1990 (and under Syrian duress), by which time there there had been 15 years of civil war. It's a lot more complicated than that of course, but the current demography of Lebanon cannot be blamed on Syria.

A VOICE OF REASON?!!! :wtf: w00t!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Said1 said:
If that's the case, you might want to concern yourself with Russian "political capital" in Iran and Syria. It's interesting to see two enemies coming together wouldn't you say?

yeah, lord knows we've never broken bread with modern day 'enemies', eh?

it's either short term memory loss, or a mode of thinking that whatever is the interest of the USA is right, even if the stance takes a 180º the next generation. neither of which i subscribe to.
 
spillmind said:
yeah, lord knows we've never broken bread with modern day 'enemies', eh?

it's either short term memory loss, or a mode of thinking that whatever is the interest of the USA is right, even if the stance takes a 180º the next generation. neither of which i subscribe to.

What are you talking about, EH!
 

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