Lax gun laws provide criminals with guns

[del]

It's not the same and you know it.

why? do people wind up less dead?

 

[Lycurgus]

Look you dumb fuck, NO ONE legally buys any handgun with out a background check. Not at gun shows not from any licensed dealer. And contrary to popular opinion at Gun shows you have licensed dealers. The Cops are there and check everyone out. The REQUIREMENT for a back ground check on purchasing handguns is openly displayed and enforced.

Chris, why are you not getting what he is telling you?

He has given you the correct information each time.

Last weekend when I purchased a new hand gun at the gun show, I had to provide my ID and personal information, it was called in, the check was done, then I paid for my purchase and left. Period.

I can tell you from going to many shows, working many shows and knowing many bad people, there are not many criminals who go to gun shows and do what I just described me doing to purchase a gun. Not only that, at a gun show they will pay a fair to premium price for a good used weapon or a new one. Unlike on the streets where they can steal them, buy hot ones much cheaper or trade drugs or other goods for them.

Gun shows are not the problem. Responsible gun owners are not the problem.

Finally, a gun does not harm anyone. The person operating the gun does. If a person is intent of killing another person, not having a gun, will not stop them! But, owning a gun can save a innocent persons life.

Do accidents happen? Of course. Can even responsible people go off and commit a crime? Yes. But, these are the more rare exceptions. the same happens in cars and many other ways.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Lycurgus]

If a person wants to kill, they will.

Oklahoma City ............. Need I say more!

The problem is not the weapon, the problem is the mentality.

 

[Lycurgus]

Chris, please let me add this.

Sadly I have had a fair amount of interactions with the police, with my firearms being involved in the situation. What I want to express here, by share this with you is this, each time, on everyone of these occasions, two things happened, first, my weapons were given back to me and second and most importantly, innocent people were shielded from a dangerous situation.

Chris, please pay attention to the news. Currently in the St. Louis area there is a situation taking place where a certain area of people are taking it upon themselves to lawfully purchase and learn how to use firearms. This is not a affluent area. They have done block watches, they have worked with the police. They even allocated enough money for the police to add 125 new officers to help them. The police only added 25. These people are tired of being victims. They have done everything else they can do. They have accepted one simple fact we each live with, the police, no matter how hard they try, 99% of the time can only clean up the mess and take our reports, if we are still alive to give them one! They have voted in the right to protect themselves and they are going to learn how to properly do it.

Sadly we do not live in a perfect world. I enjoy shooting guns, but, I enjoy competition, not shooting at people. Anyone who is close to mentally normal will tell you, taking a life is not something to relish or celebrate. It is not something that responsible gun owners want to take place. In turn, it is a reality that if faced with it, it is better to be prepared than to have your loved ones missing you or you missing them!

Chris, I am not trying to change your personal values. I'm simply not that type of person. I am trying though to help you understand the other side though, a little bit better.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It's not the same and you know it.

You are right. Cars kill more people then guns EVERY year and we let 15 year olds drive them.

 

[Lycurgus]

You are right. Cars kill more people then guns EVERY year and we let 15 year olds drive them.

Very true, among other things which do as well.

 

[Chris]

Chris, please let me add this.

Sadly I have had a fair amount of interactions with the police, with my firearms being involved in the situation. What I want to express here, by share this with you is this, each time, on everyone of these occasions, two things happened, first, my weapons were given back to me and second and most importantly, innocent people were shielded from a dangerous situation.

Chris, please pay attention to the news. Currently in the St. Louis area there is a situation taking place where a certain area of people are taking it upon themselves to lawfully purchase and learn how to use firearms. This is not a affluent area. They have done block watches, they have worked with the police. They even allocated enough money for the police to add 125 new officers to help them. The police only added 25. These people are tired of being victims. They have done everything else they can do. They have accepted one simple fact we each live with, the police, no matter how hard they try, 99% of the time can only clean up the mess and take our reports, if we are still alive to give them one! They have voted in the right to protect themselves and they are going to learn how to properly do it.

Sadly we do not live in a perfect world. I enjoy shooting guns, but, I enjoy competition, not shooting at people. Anyone who is close to mentally normal will tell you, taking a life is not something to relish or celebrate. It is not something that responsible gun owners want to take place. In turn, it is a reality that if faced with it, it is better to be prepared than to have your loved ones missing you or you missing them!

Chris, I am not trying to change your personal values. I'm simply not that type of person. I am trying though to help you understand the other side though, a little bit better.

I understand the other side quite well. This is not my first rodeo.

I am simple stating facts. America leads the developed world in gun deaths. I think this is a problem. Some people do not. Studies show that states with stricter gun laws have fewer gun deaths. I think this is a good thing. Some people do not.

 

[Father Time]

I understand the other side quite well. This is not my first rodeo.

I am simple stating facts. America leads the developed world in gun deaths. I think this is a problem. Some people do not. Studies show that states with stricter gun laws have fewer gun deaths. I think this is a good thing. Some people do not.

Link to those studies, please. The only one you've shown just showed correlation and nothing more. I've met a guy who claimed the exact opposite and proved it (don't have his studies with me though).

Criminals do not obey gun laws they get their guns from the black market, if you make it harder for criminals to get guns the black market just expands to fill the need.

Banning guns won't do anything either. If the demand for contraband is there then there's money to be made on the black market.

 

[user_name_guest]

Cars kill more than guns. Yet, we should bail out the auto industry.

Stricter gun laws = won't prevent a criminal from obtaining one illegally. Remember when they had prohibition. Didn't stop gangsters from trafficking liquor. Prostitution = illegal (ask Spitzer), why are there hookers on the streets? Drugs are illegal yet we have people snorting something or poking themselves with needles every other day (free health care for them). Stricter gun laws may protect the weaker thug who doesn't know that a black market exist. But a smart criminal would still be able to obtain one (that's what black markets/home or gun store robberies are for)."

 

[Father Time]

Cars kill more than guns. Yet, we should bail out the auto industry.

Stricter gun laws = won't prevent a criminal from obtaining one illegally. Remember when they had prohibition. Didn't stop gangsters from trafficking liquor.

Exactly and because it was impossible for citizens to get alcohol the black market booze business (and organized crime) had significant growth.

If the demand for illegal items/services is there a black market will spring up to fill the void.

If you want to fight the black market be prepared to use up a lot of time and money. Especially if it's an item people really like (like say booze or drugs).

 

[Truthspeaker]

quite right.

 

[Chris]

Link to those studies, please. The only one you've shown just showed correlation and nothing more. I've met a guy who claimed the exact opposite and proved it (don't have his studies with me though).

Criminals do not obey gun laws they get their guns from the black market, if you make it harder for criminals to get guns the black market just expands to fill the need.

Banning guns won't do anything either. If the demand for contraband is there then there's money to be made on the black market.

Actually banning guns does work.

The Japanese banned guns, and they have almost no gun deaths.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Check your stats on gun violence in Japan.
Gun violence jumps in Japan--police - INQUIRER.net, Philippine News for Filipinos

 

[user_name_guest]

Actually banning guns does work.

The Japanese banned guns, and they have almost no gun deaths.

You can ban guns, but it won't stop a criminal from obtaining one illegally. If they can push drugs through our borders, they won't have a problem pushing guns as well.

 

[LOki]

The looser the gun laws the easier it is for criminals to get guns. That is what the study shows.

Denying facts doesn't make them untrue.

No denial of facts at all here. The study just demonstrates that gun control laws don't really prevent criminals from getting guns.

 

[LOki]

Actually 1.3 million guns were stolen during a 14 year period in the United States. Gun owners are the ones providing criminals with guns.

I'll bet that fewer guns would be stolen if criminals could just go to the store and buy guns. Why do you prefer that criminals should steal guns rather than buy them?

 

[LOki]

I understand the other side quite well. This is not my first rodeo.

I am simple stating facts. America leads the developed world in gun deaths. I think this is a problem. Some people do not. Studies show that states with stricter gun laws have fewer gun deaths. I think this is a good thing. Some people do not.

Why do you prefer "[other kinds of] deaths" to "gun deaths"?

 

[LOki]

Actually banning guns does work.

The Japanese banned guns, and they have almost no gun deaths.

They still kill each other, and themselves. What is so special about "gun deaths"?

 

[Lycurgus]

I understand the other side quite well. This is not my first rodeo.

I am simple stating facts. America leads the developed world in gun deaths. I think this is a problem. Some people do not. Studies show that states with stricter gun laws have fewer gun deaths. I think this is a good thing. Some people do not.

I wasn't trying to insult you Chris.

However, for a person who understands it and likes to copy and past stats, I have yet to see you provide a rational and realistic reasoning for gun deaths and the understanding of correcting it and easing it. You, as you have written here, make it a black or white issue. Frankly that is narrow minded and counter productive.

Either way, you enjoy not owning a firearm and I will enjoy owning one.

 

[irie]

QUOTE=Neubarth;928564]Outlaw all guns except for those people who are part of the various state militias and summarily execute any bozo found with one if he is not in the militia. [/QUOTE]


You can take my guns right after they take your freedom of speech.