Law can still be a reputable and learned profession

[heirtothewind]

Despite ''lawyer jokes'' and despicable advertising reduced to slogans by personal injury attorneys, I still feel that lawyers are the Argus of a free society. I became a lawyer not for some idealistic notion but for the simple practical reason of earning a living. But as a supervisory attorney for a federal agency, I got the impression that standards for becoming a lawyer had fallen since the 1970's. Few, if any, on my staff could do basic legal research or write a concise and coherent memorandum of law or brief. One attorney, of sorts, had no clue as to when the American Civil War was fought. Upon leaving government service, I became a consultant to four law firms handling administrative law and business litigation, and I wondered why I stayed with a government agency with ''attorneys'' who by some miracle managed to get an undergraduate degree and a law degree, and then to pass a bar examination.

The best preparation for law school, in my opinion, is not nonsense like pre-law or political science, but rather English composition and journalism with broad liberal arts electives in the humanities, social sciences, and natural sciences. Universities are offering too many absolutely frivolous majors such as gay studies, grape growing, crafts, and puppeteering. It is little wonder that today's college graduates, to a frightening degree, cannot express themselves beyond a 140-character text message or discuss any topic in history or science. And as for law, just learn an advertising slogan [Enough said. Call Ed] [In a wreck. Need a check. One call -- that's all].

Law schools need to be more selective of applicants to ensure the profession does not become a ''default trade'' for those who can do nothing else; and state bar associations need to be more aggressive in disbarring incompetent and unethical lawyers.

Opinions invited.

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

My younger brother was a Woodruff Scholar at Emory University Law School. Jimmy Carter awarded him the scholarship. He once told me that lawyers exist to protect us from ourselves. I think that's pretty much true. He told me a good lawyer joke last time I talked to him:

Q. What do you call the only person in a federal courthouse with an IQ of 60?
A. "Your honor."

Sad but true.

 

[Disir]

I call bullshit. You sound exactly like D but with classier shoes.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Being an attorney's difficult, some transcripts show how difficult nervous new trial lawyers have it:

ATTORNEY: Now doctor, isn't it true that when a person dies in his sleep, he doesn't know about it until the next morning?
WITNESS: Did you actually pass the bar exam?

ATTORNEY: The youngest son, the twenty-year-old, how old is he?
WITNESS: He's twenty, much like your IQ.

ATTORNEY: She had three children, right?
WITNESS: Yes.
ATTORNEY: How many were boys?
WITNESS: None.
ATTORNEY: Were there any girls?
WITNESS: Your Honor, I think I need a different attorney. Can I get a new attorney?

ATTORNEY: ALL your responses MUST be oral, OK? What school did you go to?
WITNESS: Oral.

ATTORNEY: Do you recall the time that you examined the body?
WITNESS: The autopsy started around 8:30 p.m.
ATTORNEY: And Mr. Denton was dead at the time?
WITNESS: If not, he was by the time I finished.

ATTORNEY: Doctor, before you performed the autopsy, did you check for a pulse?
WITNESS: No.
ATTORNEY: Did you check for blood pressure?
WITNESS: No.
ATTORNEY: Did you check for breathing?
WITNESS: No.
ATTORNEY: So, then it is possible that the patient was alive when you began the autopsy?
WITNESS: No..
ATTORNEY: How can you be so sure, Doctor?
WITNESS: Because his brain was sitting on my desk in a jar.
ATTORNEY: I see, but could the patient have still been alive, nevertheless?
WITNESS: Yes, it is possible that he could have been alive and practicing law.

 

[Mad Scientist]

OP, how many Lawyers you know have actually read the State Code of Criminal Procedure? All the way through?

 

[heirtothewind]

I call bullshit. You sound exactly like D but with classier shoes.

Please clarify your comment.

 

[Rotagilla]

LAWYER, n. One skilled in circumvention of the law.

~ Ambrose Bierce, Devil’s Dictionary

another definition from Devil’s Dictionary mentions ‘lawyer.’

LIAR, n. A lawyer with a roving commission.

 

[heirtothewind]

OP, how many Lawyers you know have actually read the State Code of Criminal Procedure? All the way through?

None -- but this question does not appear to have anything to do with the OP,
Your point is what?

 

[heirtothewind]

LAWYER, n. One skilled in circumvention of the law.

~ Ambrose Bierce, Devil’s Dictionary

another definition from Devil’s Dictionary mentions ‘lawyer.’

LIAR, n. A lawyer with a roving commission.

My law degree represents eight years of college education; however, I am glad there are books that keep a high school drop-out with a low IQ amused.

 

[Rotagilla]

LAWYER, n. One skilled in circumvention of the law.

~ Ambrose Bierce, Devil’s Dictionary

another definition from Devil’s Dictionary mentions ‘lawyer.’

LIAR, n. A lawyer with a roving commission.

My law degree represents eight years of college education; however, I am glad there are books that keep a high school drop-out with a low IQ amused.

Typical lawyer.
Aim low and toss in some ad homs.
Stay classy, counselor.

 

[Mad Scientist]

OP, how many Lawyers you know have actually read the State Code of Criminal Procedure? All the way through?

None -- but this question does not appear to have anything to do with the OP,
Your point is what?

Oh it has everything to do with the OP.

The State Code of Criminal Procedure describes how Courts will conduct themselves at all levels up to and including the State Supreme Court.

You're telling me that you're a Lawyer and have never read it and what's more, you claim you don't know any Lawyer who has? That's quite telling!

See, if I wanted to be an NFL Referee and Officiate at games I'd have to know the NFL Rule Book right?

What you just admitted is like this:

Person: "I wanna' be an NFL Referee!"
Me: "Have you read the NFL Rule Book?"
Person: "No, and what's that got to do with me being a Referee?"

See, you've just admitted that you don't have to follow the Law, or even know the Law, in order to be a Lawyer!

Thank you!

 

[Mad Scientist]

Person: "Hey guise! I wanna' be an Auto Mechanic!"
Me: "Do you know how to work on cars?"
Person: "No. But what's that got to do with me being an Auto Mechanic?"

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

LAWYER, n. One skilled in circumvention of the law.

~ Ambrose Bierce, Devil’s Dictionary

another definition from Devil’s Dictionary mentions ‘lawyer.’

LIAR, n. A lawyer with a roving commission.

My law degree represents eight years of college education; however, I am glad there are books that keep a high school drop-out with a low IQ amused.

Didn't you say you worked for the government there, Perry Mason? A lot of us went to school for many years, and some of us had a sense of humor too. Get over yourself.

 

[Rotagilla]

LAWYER, n. One skilled in circumvention of the law.

~ Ambrose Bierce, Devil’s Dictionary

another definition from Devil’s Dictionary mentions ‘lawyer.’

LIAR, n. A lawyer with a roving commission.

My law degree represents eight years of college education; however, I am glad there are books that keep a high school drop-out with a low IQ amused.

Didn't you say you worked for the government there, Perry Mason? A lot of us went to school for many years, and some of us had a sense of humor too. Get over yourself.

Bierce was a very good writer, too...Incident at Owl Creek Bridge has always been one of my favorites. What a story!

Odd how someone who, in their OP above, advocates for English Composition, Journalism and studies of the (sic) "social sciences" as prerequisites for "Law School" could NOT appreciate the satire and wit of Ambrose Bierce?

..but what could anyone else possibly know ...LMAO..After all, HE went to "Law School".
He's obviously quite "smart".

Counselor has very thin skin.

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

LAWYER, n. One skilled in circumvention of the law.

~ Ambrose Bierce, Devil’s Dictionary

another definition from Devil’s Dictionary mentions ‘lawyer.’

LIAR, n. A lawyer with a roving commission.

My law degree represents eight years of college education; however, I am glad there are books that keep a high school drop-out with a low IQ amused.

Didn't you say you worked for the government there, Perry Mason? A lot of us went to school for many years, and some of us had a sense of humor too. Get over yourself.

Bierce was a very good writer, too...Incident at Owl Creek Bridge has always been one of my favorites. What a story!

Odd how someone who, in their OP above, advocates for English Composition, Journalism and studies of the (sic) "social sciences" as prerequisites for "Law School" could NOT appreciate the satire and wit of Ambrose Bierce?

..but what could anyone else possibly know ...LMAO..After all, HE went to "Law School".
He's obviously quite "smart".

Counselor has very thin skin.

Yes, Incident at Owl Creek Bridge is a classic. PBS did a short video of the story years ago.

 

[Rotagilla]

LAWYER, n. One skilled in circumvention of the law.

~ Ambrose Bierce, Devil’s Dictionary

another definition from Devil’s Dictionary mentions ‘lawyer.’

LIAR, n. A lawyer with a roving commission.

My law degree represents eight years of college education; however, I am glad there are books that keep a high school drop-out with a low IQ amused.

Didn't you say you worked for the government there, Perry Mason? A lot of us went to school for many years, and some of us had a sense of humor too. Get over yourself.

Bierce was a very good writer, too...Incident at Owl Creek Bridge has always been one of my favorites. What a story!

Odd how someone who, in their OP above, advocates for English Composition, Journalism and studies of the (sic) "social sciences" as prerequisites for "Law School" could NOT appreciate the satire and wit of Ambrose Bierce?

..but what could anyone else possibly know ...LMAO..After all, HE went to "Law School".
He's obviously quite "smart".

Counselor has very thin skin.

Yes, Incident at Owl Creek Bridge is a classic. PBS did a short video of the story years ago.

Saw it. Excellent!

 

[heirtothewind]

OP, how many Lawyers you know have actually read the State Code of Criminal Procedure? All the way through?

None -- but this question does not appear to have anything to do with the OP,
Your point is what?

Oh it has everything to do with the OP.

The State Code of Criminal Procedure describes how Courts will conduct themselves at all levels up to and including the State Supreme Court.

You're telling me that you're a Lawyer and have never read it and what's more, you claim you don't know any Lawyer who has? That's quite telling!

See, if I wanted to be an NFL Referee and Officiate at games I'd have to know the NFL Rule Book right?

What you just admitted is like this:

Person: "I wanna' be an NFL Referee!"
Me: "Have you read the NFL Rule Book?"
erson: "No, and what's that got to do with me being a Referee?"

See, you've just admitted that you don't have to follow the Law, or even know the Law, in order to be a Lawyer!

Thank you!

The OP dealt with the drop in the quality of legal education. Unless one practices exclusively criminal law, I doubt whether he or she has read a state's code of criminal procedure in its entirety. State criminal procedure, moreover, follows SCOTUS decisions on Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, and Eighth Amendment rights, as federal law trumps state law.

Law embraces much more than just criminal law. My areas of practice were administrative law [social security, federal taxation, workers comp, unemployment comp, etc.] and business litigation [contracts, business torts, copyrights and trademarks]. Thus, I had no need to memorize the state code of criminal procedure. The only people who have read it in its entirety are probably criminals behind bars with nothing else to do but draft writs for habeas corpus proclaiming their innocence.

Now, can you please articulate what the fuck you''re talking about --- just to put it into crude NFL terms that you can maybe understand, bubba.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Thus, I had no need to memorize the state code of criminal procedure. The only people who have read it in its entirety are probably criminals behind bars with nothing else to do but draft writs for habeas corpus proclaiming their innocence.

Or drafting Writs of Mandamus to force Judges, at all levels, to do what they're supposed to do under the State Code of Criminal Procedure (State) or Title 18 United State Code (Federal) during their Trial.

Which as you've already stated, you don't know and don't follow. Is that simple enough for you?

 

[heirtothewind]

Thus, I had no need to memorize the state code of criminal procedure. The only people who have read it in its entirety are probably criminals behind bars with nothing else to do but draft writs for habeas corpus proclaiming their innocence.

Or drafting Writs of Mandamus to force Judges, at all levels, to do what they're supposed to do under the State Code of Criminal Procedure (State) or Title 18 United State Code (Federal) during their Trial.

Which as you've already stated, you don't know and don't follow. Is that simple enough for you?

I obviously must review the legal standards for insanity before continuing this discussion. But it is easier to just put you on an ignore list.

 

[Mad Scientist]

It doesn't appear that "Error to the Wind" knows anything more about the Law than huddling up with a Judge and seeing how they can f*ck over either the Plaintiff or the Defendant.

Then going to play golf.