Last women fail Marine combat course.....now what?

[danielpalos]

So, the last of the women trying to complete the Marine combat course have failed the physical end of the course.....now what? Is this where the politicians step in and lower standards...because that will be the only way to pass women through to ground combat units....

Last IOC in Marine infantry experiment drops female officers


But as the research continued, few volunteers took advantage of the opportunity. By July 2014, only 20 female officers had attempted the course. Only one made it through the Combat Endurance Test, and none made it to the end.

In an effort to achieve their goal of 100 female volunteers cycling through IOC, the Marine Corps opened the course to female company-grade officers in October 2014, making hundreds more Marines eligible for the course. The Corps also began requiring that volunteers get a first-class score on the male version of the service's Physical Fitness Test in an effort to better prepare them for the rigors of IOC.

The effort was a mixed success. In the October iteration of IOC, three of the seven female volunteers made it through the Combat Endurance Test, bringing the total number of women to pass the test to four. Two of those who passed the test were captains from the fleet. As time passed, no influx of volunteers materialized, however.

i believe even privates first class may instruct privates to merely do it over and over again until practice makes perfect, even for wo-men.

 

[Yarddog]

The only option, based on the Clinton doctrine, is to lower the standards and call the Marines nasty names.

Yes, and to cut their equipment budget

 

[waltky]

Hell hath no fury - like a woman scorned...

Lawmaker Seeks Proof Women 'Deserved to Pass' Ranger School
Sep 23, 2015 | An Oklahoma congressman and combat veteran has demanded that the Secretary of the Army produce paperwork documenting the performance of the women who recently graduated Ranger School.

Rep. Steve Russell, R-Okla., a retired Army lieutenant colonel with deep roots to the infantry and combat tours to Iraq and Afghanistan, sent a letter to Secretary of the Army John McHugh on Sept. 15, and the Ledger-Enquirer obtained it late Tuesday from Russell's office. Among the documents he requested were patrol grade sheets, spot reports, phase evaluation reports and sick call reports, all "with Ranger Instructors' comments for each and every phase to include every recycled phase and class." Russell also requested peer evaluations and "a complete breakdown of each female candidate's recycle history and dates for each phase." The request from Russell comes nearly four weeks after Capt. Kristen Griest and 1st Lt. Shaye Haver became the first women to graduate from the Army's most demanding combat training school, which was established in 1951.

A third female soldier is currently in the final phase in Florida and could graduate next month. Russell, an infantry battalion commander who is Ranger qualified, was chief of tactics at U.S. Army Infantry School at Fort Benning in 2005 and retired a year later. "Our office recently received information from some people with the Ranger School who alleged they were not held to the same standards," said Russell's Communication Director Daniel Susskind late Tuesday. "We asked for the records to make sure that all of the people who passed the course deserved to pass it." Susskind said Russell was asking for information for all of the students, not just the women. But the letter to McHugh specifically asks for information on "the female graduates and those female candidates that entered Ranger School May 1." The class in question started April 19 with 19 female candidates.

Russell closed his letter to McHugh with this sentence: "Your prompt attention to this matter is not only constitutionally required, it is also greatly appreciated." He gave a deadline of Friday to receive the information. Russell was part of a congressional delegation that visited Ranger School in April shortly after the women began the course. A Fort Benning official declined immediate comment Tuesday night. Throughout the entire process, Army officials -- including Maj. Gen. Scott Miller, commander of the Maneuver Center of Excellence at Fort Benning; Col. David G. Fivecoat, commander of the Airborne and Ranger Training Brigade; and Command Sgt. Maj. Curtis Arnold of the Airborne and Ranger Training Brigade -- have maintained the standards were not lowered.

Command Sgt. Maj. Dennis Smith, who retired in 2012 after serving at the Airborne and Ranger Training Brigade, said Russell may be surprised by what he finds. "I think the records will indicate, just as we have been told, the females were graded as evenly and as fairly as anybody else and deserved to graduate," Smith said. "What the naysayers don't understand is that you can recycle up to three times in each phase as long as it is not for the same thing twice." Students are graded in each phase on small unit patrols, peer evaluations and spot reports by the Ranger Instructors. At last week's graduation, three male soldiers each graduated after 208 days and multiple recycles in the three phases of Ranger School.

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West Point Women Request Lawmaker's Ranger Records
Sep 25, 2015 | WASHINGTON -- A group of female West Point graduates has turned the tables on Oklahoma congressman Steve Russell, asking the Army to turn over his Ranger records.

The Republican freshman reignited debate this week over women in combat by requesting performance records to prove the first two women to graduate Ranger School were not given special treatment when receiving tabs in August. Sue Fulton, a former Army captain and a member of the first female class of West Point in 1980, said she filed a Freedom of Information Act request Thursday for Russell's Ranger School file on behalf of an informal group of her fellow graduates. The congressman earned his tab in the mid-1980s and went on to serve 21 years in the Army, including time as an infantry commander during the Iraq War, according to his congressional bio. "He, like too many older men, have biases about what women are capable of," she said. "Ranger instructors and their leaders are known for their integrity but somehow when women pass the standard, that integrity is no longer respected."

The request for Russell's school records came after a conversation -- what started as a joke -- among about six members of a closed Facebook page for female West Point graduates, she said. Fulton said the women were angered that the lawmaker was insinuating Capt. Kristen Griest and 1st Lt. Shaye Haver were given unfair consideration, and it reminded them of years of resistance to putting women in combat roles, including claims it would destroy unit cohesion and hurt national morale. "This is about the fact that these are the same kinds of objections we [female servicemembers] have heard for 40 years. For some of us, enough is enough," said Fulton, who serves as chairwoman on the West Point board of visitors.

After posting about the FOIA request, Fulton said about two dozen more women have told her they back the move. Russell declined an interview request from Stars and Stripes. But he took to Facebook this week to explain his own request for Army Secretary John McHugh to turn over test evaluations, peer reviews and injury reports for Griest, Haver and all other female candidates who entered the program in May. In a post Wednesday, he said it was an investigation of "serious allegations" made by members of the military. "No one wanted to touch this issue," Russell wrote. "As one of only two Ranger-qualified members of the House, I asked for the records to determine the nature of the allegations."

He said he expects to examine the Army records next week. The service and its Ranger staff at Fort Benning, Ga., have forcefully denied any special treatment of the female Rangers. "There was no pressure on me from above to lower any standards. These soldiers graduating today accomplished it with the very same standards of Ranger School as those before them," Maj. Gen. Austin Miller, the commander of the Maneuver Center of Excellence, said during the graduation ceremony last month.

West Point Women Request Lawmaker's Ranger Records | Military.com

 

[waltky]

Rumors that Ranger School was Fixed so Women Could Pass not true...

Army Denies that Ranger School was Fixed so Women Could Pass
Sep 27, 2015 | The U.S. Army issued a blistering denial late Friday that the recent Ranger school course was “fixed” to allow women to pass and earn the coveted Ranger tab.

In a statement, Brig. Gen. Malcom B. Frost, the Army’s chief of public affairs, said that a People Magazine article charging that Army Capt. Kristen Griest and 1st Lt. Shaye Haver were given special treatment was “flat-out wrong” and “pure fiction.” The article by Susan Katz Keating was headlined: “Was It Fixed? Army General Told Subordinates: 'A Woman Will Graduate Ranger School,' Sources Say.”

http://images.military.com/media/news/service/ranger-school-packs-600.jpg[/img]
Ranger candidates, burdened with heavy packs and weapons, hike up a trail during the Mountain Phase of the traditionally all-male infantry course.

The magazine’s report went on to cite the repercussions of the unnamed general’s influence on subordinates at Fort Benning, Ga., involved in conducting the first Ranger school course open to women that began earlier this year. ‘”It had a ripple effect’" at Fort Benning, where Ranger School is based, says a source with knowledge of events at the sprawling Georgia Army post,” the magazine article said. "Even though this was supposed to be just an assessment, everyone knew. The results were planned in advance," the article quoted the source as saying.

In his statement for the Army, Frost ran through a list of allegations in the article that he said were untrue. "The latest attack on the integrity of the United States Army by People magazine's Susan Keating is more than inaccurate, it is pure fiction,” Frost said. “She claimed that women were allowed to repeat a Ranger training class until they passed, while men were held to a strict pass/fail standard. That is false.”

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Navy Commander Welcomes Female SEALs, Warns of Higher Injury Risk
Sep 25, 2015 | WASHINGTON — The commander of the Navy's special warfare units is recommending that the SEALs and combat crew jobs be opened to women, but he warns that women will have greater risk of injury and says the service may be pressured to adjust or lower standards for the jobs.

In a five-page memo, Rear Adm. Brian Losey said that "there are no insurmountable obstacles" to opening the commando jobs to women, but he warned that there are "foreseeable impacts" to integrating them into ground combat units. Losey is the head of the Navy's Special Warfare Command, which includes the SEAL teams and special warfare combatant craft crewmen.

http://images.military.com/media/news/service/seal-jump-600.jpg

Losey's memo to U.S. Special Operations Command was obtained by The Associated Press. It comes as the U.S. military services are in the final weeks of discussion over whether to ban women from any front-line combat jobs. The Army, Navy and Air Force are expected to open all positions to women, but Marine Gen. Joseph Dunford, who just left his post as commandant of the Marine Corps, has recommended that certain Marine infantry and ground combat jobs remain closed to women. Dunford became chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff on Friday.

While Losey outlines many of the same concerns as the Marine Corps has about how women will fare in some of the military's most demanding jobs, he comes to a different conclusion. Allowing all qualified candidates to "test themselves" against the difficult physical, mental and other standards required to become a special warfare officer "is ultimately the right thing to do and is clearly consistent with the struggle over centuries to fully represent our nation's values of fairness and equal opportunity," his memo opens.

[URL='http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/09/25/navy-seals-ready-open-doors-women.html']MORE[/URL][/quote]

 

[waltky]

Kickin' the can down the road...

Carter to Decide in January on Whether to Open Combat Jobs to Women
Sep 30, 2015 | Defense Secretary Ashton Carter said Wednesday he has all the reports from the services on whether to open up all military jobs to women but that he won't be making any decisions until January.

Between now and then, Carter said he plans to seek more input from the service chiefs and service secretaries on the matter. Carter said he also wanted the input of Marine Gen. Joseph Dunford in his new role as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, rather than as commandant of the Marine Corps. Last week, Dunford stepped down as commandant and was succeeded by Marine Gen. Robert Neller. At a Pentagon briefing, Carter renewed his stance that that the services would have to make a good case to convince him that the directive from then-Defense Secretary Leon Panetta in 2013 that all military occupational specialties must be open to women shouldn't apply.

Panetta gave the military until the end of 2015 to reach decisions on opening up previously closed billets, mostly in the infantry, armor and artillery. Carter said he'll be reviewing the reports from the services based in the coming months, but he added, "I'm less interested in who said what than in why they're saying it." As secretary of defense, "I'm committed to seeing this through because attracting the best and staying the best means that wherever possible we must open ourselves to the talents and strengths of all Americans who can contribute with excellence to our force," Carter said. "As I said before, everyone who is able and willing to serve and can meet the standards we require should have the full opportunity to do so," he said.

Carter said that no specific recommendations have been made to him as yet by the services, and he declined to characterize what was in the reports he received. "What they owe to, first, the chairman, and ultimately to me by the end of the year, is their analysis, their studies, and their thoughts, both about which specialties, if any, should be left closed to women," he said, "and importantly, how they intend to make any adaptations that are required." While Carter declined comment on the service reports, other defense officials on background earlier this week noted what has been widely reported -- that the Marine Corps has been the most resistant of the services to opening up all billets to women.

Carter to Decide in January on Whether to Open Combat Jobs to Women | Military.com

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Group Blasts Marines Over Study of Women in Combat
Sep 30, 2015 | WASHINGTON -- Advocates for fully integrating the armed forces on Tuesday accused the Marines of cherry-picking data to bolster the case to keep women from certain combat jobs.

The talk comes ahead of the Thursday deadline for military branches to present evidence for exemptions to a new rule set to go into effect Jan. 1. The rule will open all military jobs to women. "If I had a daughter, based on all of the comments that are being made ... I would question my daughter's decision to join an organization (the Marine Corps) that was so adamantly opposed to the full equal footing of women," Marine Lt. Col. Kate Germano said during a media roundtable Tuesday. Germano and several other active-duty and retired military officers called for all military positions to be open to women, facing the same standards as men. The group took exception to the findings of a nine-month Marine Corps study, which included elaborate battlefield simulations, aimed at examining the impacts of integrating women into combat arms units. The conclusions have only been partially released and have raised the specter of unit cohesion problems and increased rates of injuries for women.

Female U.S. Marines in training navigate through forest grounds using the land navigation instruction given by their combat instructors at Camp Geiger, N.C

A main point of contention is the study looked at the average performance of all the women -- as opposed to looking at the possibility that some women could meet standards. "You cannot compare averages, this has to be an individual evaluation process," retired Army Col. Ellen Haring said at the roundtable. Germano, who helped dramatically raise female Marine recruit marksmanship scores at Parris Island before being removed from her position amid complaints about her aggressive style, said there is an understanding in the Marines that women are expected to fail. "What it essentially came down to was acceptance of lower expectations," she said. "What I found was that the leadership was not ready to embrace the changes to make females feel more welcome." The Marine Corps did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Thursday is the deadline for all branches of the military to submit proposals for jobs that they believe should remain closed to women. The Marines have been more resistant to such changes than other branches. Gen. Joseph Dunford, who recently went from commandant of the Marines to chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has reportedly recommended some positions remain closed to women. The Marines released a truncated four-page summary of their study earlier this month that painted a grim picture of women in combat units. But less than two weeks later, a much longer summary came out with more nuanced conclusions of the impacts, though the Marines still have not released the full report. Navy Secretary Ray Mabus, who has oversight over the Marines, has criticized the study. Defense Secretary Ash Carter will make the ultimate decision about what, if any, jobs remain restricted.

Group Blasts Marines Over Study of Women in Combat | Military.com

 

[danielpalos]

Why are women soo good at stereotyping mostly nice guys, but want Individual evaluations.

 

[waltky]

Was the study rigged?...

New Details Question Validity of Marine Corps Gender-Integration Study
Oct 02, 2015 | Emerging details of the U.S. Marine Corps study on the integration of women into direct-action combat jobs raise questions about the validity of its findings and whether the study was engineered to keep women out of infantry units, critics say.

The effort compared the performance of units with inexperienced female Marines -- fresh out of training -- against units made up of experienced male infantrymen, while focusing on speed and accuracy when engaging targets with multiple weapons systems, according to a Marine source familiar with the effort. The Marines in these ad hoc units cycled in and out from one task to the next, which made it difficult to develop unit cohesion, the source said.

Women volunteering for the effort were screened at a lower physical-fitness standard than men but were expected to perform at the same strength and endurance levels as males on tasks such as negotiating obstacles and evacuating casualties, the source said. Once testing was complete, the study showed that all-male units demonstrated higher performance levels than gender-integrated units on 69 percent of tasks evaluated.

The Marine Corps publicly released an executive summary of the study in early September, a move that put Navy Secretary Ray Mabus at odds with the Marine Corps leadership over whether women should serve in direct-action combat jobs such as infantry. Mabus has weathered considerable criticism for his decision that there will be no exceptions to the Defense Department's policy mandating that all combat-arms jobs be opened to women. A spokesman for his office didn't provide a response to a request for comment. But Mabus may find more support for his position.

Flawed methodology

 

[danielpalos]

Not really sure what the problem once they qualify for that.

Much like women simply asking for a full body massage or simply and honestly telling us it is our turn to use them.

If only, we could find a few good women.

 

[waltky]

Troops glad Carter gonna put womens inna foxhole with `em...

Carter Sounds Nearly Ready to Open Combat Jobs to Women
Oct 07, 2015 -- Defense Secretary Ash Carter sounded like he's nearly made up his mind about opening all combat jobs to women, as he told U.S. troops in Sicily on Tuesday that limiting his search for qualified military candidates to just half the population would be "crazy."

Meanwhile, in memo obtained by The Associated Press, Carter gave the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff until the end of October to forward his review of the services' recommendations on which jobs -- if any -- should remain closed to women. The chairman, Gen. Joseph Dunford, was commandant of the Marine Corps until recently and was the only service chief to recommend that some front-line combat jobs stay male-only, according to several U.S. officials. Speaking to a crowd of troops that included a large number of Marines, Carter said he hasn't decided on the recommendations sent to his office and to Dunford. He pledged to thoroughly review the recommendations, particularly those of the Marine Corps, but said that generally he believes that any qualified candidate should be allowed to compete for jobs. "You have to recruit from the American population. Half the American population is female," Carter told the troops at Naval Air Station Sigonella in Sicily, in response to a question from a Marine. "So I'd be crazy not to be, so to speak, fishing in that pond for qualified service members."

US Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter, left, shakes hands with a US Marine, next to Spain's Defense Minister Pedro Morenes, center, during their visit at Moron Airbase, near Seville, Spain

For that reason, he said the military should recruit women into as many specialties as possible. In the memo to all the service secretaries and chiefs, Carter said that he is "fully committed to removing unnecessary barriers to service" in the military, and he asked Dunford to review all the reports and send his final recommendation to Carter by Oct. 31. But Carter also said that he wants to hear from everyone before he decides. "I am less interested in who is making a particular recommendation and more interested in the reasoning behind it," he said. "My ultimate decision regarding any exception to policy will be based on the analytic underpinnings and the data supporting them." According to officials familiar with the process, Dunford submitted a report about five-inches thick outlining why he believes women should not be allowed to compete for certain Marine infantry and front-line jobs.

Navy Secretary Ray Mabus forwarded Dunford's recommendation but also included his own conclusion that the Navy would open all jobs to women, and that he did not agree with Dunford's conclusion. The Marine Corps is a separate service within the Navy. The Air Force and Army also did not seek to keep any jobs closed to women -- including Army infantry. And, officials said that U.S. Special Operations Command determined that it will rely on the military services to send qualified candidates to compete for the jobs, which can include the Navy SEALs and Army Special Forces. The elite commando units decided that while there are concerns about women serving in the nation's most grueling military posts, they would leave it up to the services to decide who could compete. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss publicly the private reports.

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