Last Haditha Marine trial- Murtha gone, who to pick up Terrorist Apologist Position?

[Toome]

John Murtha volunteered to serve in Vietnam. He received the Bronze Star with V-device and two Purple Hearts. You have to EARN that the hard way, so my hat's off to him for his military service. Although I disagreed with his politics, I will never say anything negative about his military service or the respect that he EARNED during that military service.

As for his controversial comments and the Haditha investigation, I don't know how much of that was driven by politics and how much of it was the result of a bonafide investigation into questionable actions by US troops. The harsh ugly truth is that Iraqi noncombatants were, in fact, killed by US Marines. Whether it was premeditated murder, reckless endangerment of noncombatants or a horrible case of collateral damage will always be debated. Point is that Murtha was RIGHT: there were innocents killed as the result of US military actions.

Wars are ugly. I expect our leaders to look into accusations of wrongdoing and not sweep it under the rug. In this respect, I think Murtha did right. While I didn't agree with his views about the war in Iraq, I certainly respected his right to express his view. The news media misquoted him, and that resulted in a public apology by Bill O'Reilly who had slammed Murtha based on those misquotes.

I believe in a strong military and will to apply that military strength. However, we also need people who question that application with tough questions. Need that to keep things in balance. And in that regard, Murtha ought to be respected for being willing to ask those tough, unpleasant questions rather than hide behind the veil of patriotism by deliberately ignoring ugly news.

So count me as one of those who will render a salute to COL John Murtha.

 

[georgephillip]

CommonDopeDreams is simply not credible.

I can't find the link right now;however, Iraqi survivors reported the marines were crying when they entered their victims' house and laughing when they left.

Shouldn't we at least question why anyone should profit from the tears or the laughter?

 

[daveman]

CommonDopeDreams is simply not credible.

I can't find the link right now;however, Iraqi survivors reported the marines were crying when they entered their victims' house and laughing when they left.

Shouldn't we at least question why anyone should profit from the tears or the laughter?

You have not credibly proven their were tears or laughter.

 

[georgephillip]

CommonDopeDreams is simply not credible.

I can't find the link right now;however, Iraqi survivors reported the marines were crying when they entered their victims' house and laughing when they left.

Shouldn't we at least question why anyone should profit from the tears or the laughter?

You have not credibly proven their were tears or laughter.

Does it seem credible to you that the Guardian UK and CommonDreams would deliberately misquote a US commander?

"When he heard the news, Major General Steve Johnson, the American commander in Anbar province at the time, saw no cause for further examination. 'It happened all the time … throughout the whole country.

"'So you know, maybe, if I was sitting here [in Virginia] and heard that 15 civilians were killed I would have been surprised and shocked and done more to look into it. But at that point in time I felt that it was just a cost of doing business on that particular engagement.'"

The US is Blind to the Price of War That is Still Being Borne by the Iraqi People | Common Dreams

 

[daveman]

I can't find the link right now;however, Iraqi survivors reported the marines were crying when they entered their victims' house and laughing when they left.

Shouldn't we at least question why anyone should profit from the tears or the laughter?

You have not credibly proven their were tears or laughter.

Does it seem credible to you that the Guardian UK and CommonDreams would deliberately misquote a US commander?

"When he heard the news, Major General Steve Johnson, the American commander in Anbar province at the time, saw no cause for further examination. 'It happened all the time … throughout the whole country.

"'So you know, maybe, if I was sitting here [in Virginia] and heard that 15 civilians were killed I would have been surprised and shocked and done more to look into it. But at that point in time I felt that it was just a cost of doing business on that particular engagement.'"

The US is Blind to the Price of War That is Still Being Borne by the Iraqi People | Common Dreams

Yes. Because this:

Major General Steve Johnson, the American commander in Anbar province at the time, saw no cause for further examination.​

...is horseshit.

 

[georgephillip]

How can you be so sure of that?

 

[whitehall]

Using NATO means never having to say you are sorry. How many civilians in Yugoslavia were cut to pieces by "daisy cutter" bombs? Some sources number it in the thousands but Clinton gets a pass because NATO done it.. How many civilians did NATO kill in Libya to pave the way for the muslem brotherhood victory? B. Hussein gets a pass because NATO done it. How many Mexican civilians were killed because of the criminal negligence of the Attorney General? Shit happens in combat zones and political posturing only makes it worse.

 

[georgephillip]

Using NATO means never having to say you are sorry. How many civilians in Yugoslavia were cut to pieces by "daisy cutter" bombs? Some sources number it in the thousands but Clinton gets a pass because NATO done it.. How many civilians did NATO kill in Libya to pave the way for the muslem brotherhood victory? B. Hussein gets a pass because NATO done it. How many Mexican civilians were killed because of the criminal negligence of the Attorney General? Shit happens in combat zones and political posturing only makes it worse.

NATO is being used as enforcers by the IMF and World Bank.
It sounds paranoid to say central bankers are using finance capitalism today the way monarchs used war in the past, but the evidence is beginning to add up. If some way isn't found to tax the profit out of war, democracy may go the way of the monarch.

 

[daveman]

How can you be so sure of that?

Because despite what military-hating leftist shitheads feel, the US military takes violations of the Law of Armed Conflict seriously.

 

[waltky]

Ya never know what it's like till yer there...

Marine to serve no time in Iraqi killings case
24 Jan.`12 – A military judge has recommended no time in confinement for a Marine sergeant who pleaded guilty to negligent dereliction of duty in assaults by his squad that killed 24 unarmed Iraqis after a roadside bomb killed a Marine in the town of Haditha in 2005.

The judge's decision Tuesday at Camp Pendleton, Calif., now goes to the commander of the Marine Corps Forces Central Command for approval. Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich of Meriden, Conn., entered the plea Monday in a deal that ended a voluntary manslaughter case against him. The Haditha attack is among the war's defining moments, further tainting America's reputation following the release of photos of prisoner abuse by U.S. soldiers at Abu Ghraib prison. Seven other Marines initially charged were exonerated or had their cases dropped.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

A Marine facing sentencing over one of the worst attacks on civilians by U.S. troops during the Iraq War told a judge Tuesday in a surprise development that he never fired his weapon at any women or children. The unsworn statement by Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich came a day after he pleaded guilty to a minor charge of negligent dereliction of duty as part of a deal that will mean little or no jail time for the leader of the Marine squad that killed 24 Iraqi civilians in Haditha in 2005.

Wuterich has acknowledged ordering his squad to "shoot first, ask questions later" after a roadside bomb took the life of a fellow Marine, but he said he did not shoot any of the 10 women and children killed in nearby homes that he stormed with his men. "The truth is: I never fired my weapon at any women or children that day," Wuterich told military judge Lt. Col. David Jones, who will recommend a sentence that must then be approved by the commander of Marine Corps Forces Central Command.

The contention by Wuterich contradicts prosecutors who implicated him in 19 of the 24 deaths. It also counters testimony from a former squad mate who said he joined Wuterich in firing in a dark back bedroom where a woman and children were killed. During the ongoing sentencing hearing, prosecutors asked Jones to give Wuterich the maximum sentence of three months confinement, a reduction in rank and forfeiture of two-thirds of his pay.

More Marine to serve no time in Iraqi killings case - Yahoo! News

 

[georgephillip]

"...I never fired my weapon at women or children that day."

Think it's a fair question to ask Wuterich how many women and children he fired at during his time in Iraq?

Think it's fair to ask Wall Street how much profit investors made from the US occupation and invasion of Iraq?

 

[The Gadfly]

John Murtha volunteered to serve in Vietnam. He received the Bronze Star with V-device and two Purple Hearts. You have to EARN that the hard way, so my hat's off to him for his military service. Although I disagreed with his politics, I will never say anything negative about his military service or the respect that he EARNED during that military service.

As for his controversial comments and the Haditha investigation, I don't know how much of that was driven by politics and how much of it was the result of a bonafide investigation into questionable actions by US troops. The harsh ugly truth is that Iraqi noncombatants were, in fact, killed by US Marines. Whether it was premeditated murder, reckless endangerment of noncombatants or a horrible case of collateral damage will always be debated. Point is that Murtha was RIGHT: there were innocents killed as the result of US military actions.

Wars are ugly. I expect our leaders to look into accusations of wrongdoing and not sweep it under the rug. In this respect, I think Murtha did right. While I didn't agree with his views about the war in Iraq, I certainly respected his right to express his view. The news media misquoted him, and that resulted in a public apology by Bill O'Reilly who had slammed Murtha based on those misquotes.

I believe in a strong military and will to apply that military strength. However, we also need people who question that application with tough questions. Need that to keep things in balance. And in that regard, Murtha ought to be respected for being willing to ask those tough, unpleasant questions rather than hide behind the veil of patriotism by deliberately ignoring ugly news.

So count me as one of those who will render a salute to COL John Murtha.

Likewise, Toome. COL John Murtha was, and always will be, a Marine, a Vietnam Veteran, and a brother-in-arms. CONGRESSMAN John Murtha, however, was and always will be, a political hack, who sacrificed his honor and the honor of his own ""beloved" Corps, on the altar of partisan politics. Hs political grandstanding in the matter, for whatever reason, is reprehensible, and in my opinion, an attempt to exert improper influence on UCMJ proceedings. He knew, that neither you, nor I, nor he himself, could ever know whether the killing of those Iraqi noncombatants constituted cold blooded murder, reckless disregard, or collateral damage. Why? Because none of us was there at Haditha that day. A man who served in combat in Vietnam, of all people, should know that. Unless an action is egregiously wrong, in direct violation of the ROE and/or orders, or the UCMJ, it is often impossible to ascertain what it constituted, and where there is doubt, that doubt MUST be resolved in favor of the troop(s) involved. The ROE in place at the time were similar to those common in Vietnam. Any of us can argue 'til the cows come home, what we think those ROE SHOULD have been, but that platoon had to work with the ROE they had, not the ones they MIGHT have had, or SHOULD have had. At the end of the day, all the investigation, all the hearings, and Courts Martial have spoken. They have found one Marine guilty of a minor offense, and the rest, not guilty and/or not culpable by reason of insufficient evidence and in one case, unlawful command influence. The last is especially reprehensible; it crosses the line between holding personnel accountable for their conduct, and persecuting them for diplomatic/political reasons. I do not want any "Breaker Morant" cases in OUR system of military justice, EVER!

I find it a pity, that John Murtha CHOSE to tarnish his own legacy; a good man once, gone bad in the cesspool of politics. He was not the first, nor will he be the last.

 

[old navy]

Well said gadfly. The Navy saw fit to name a ship of the line in Murtha's name. Hopefully it was because of his military service and not due to his time spent as a representative of the People of the United States.

 

[cooky]

I think Murthas stance on the hadith a incident was on the mark. He made statements to the effect that there were illegal killings and specifically stated that he felt blame responsibility for the incident lay with the civilian administran and not the marines. I strongly believe the marines actions constitute war crimes. That being said I think srgt waturichs sentence was appropriate. I like Murtha feel those who sent our forces to Iraq are to blame. Hence every US citizen is responsible for haditha.

 

[daveman]

John Murtha volunteered to serve in Vietnam. He received the Bronze Star with V-device and two Purple Hearts. You have to EARN that the hard way, so my hat's off to him for his military service. Although I disagreed with his politics, I will never say anything negative about his military service or the respect that he EARNED during that military service.

As for his controversial comments and the Haditha investigation, I don't know how much of that was driven by politics and how much of it was the result of a bonafide investigation into questionable actions by US troops. The harsh ugly truth is that Iraqi noncombatants were, in fact, killed by US Marines. Whether it was premeditated murder, reckless endangerment of noncombatants or a horrible case of collateral damage will always be debated. Point is that Murtha was RIGHT: there were innocents killed as the result of US military actions.

Wars are ugly. I expect our leaders to look into accusations of wrongdoing and not sweep it under the rug. In this respect, I think Murtha did right. While I didn't agree with his views about the war in Iraq, I certainly respected his right to express his view. The news media misquoted him, and that resulted in a public apology by Bill O'Reilly who had slammed Murtha based on those misquotes.

I believe in a strong military and will to apply that military strength. However, we also need people who question that application with tough questions. Need that to keep things in balance. And in that regard, Murtha ought to be respected for being willing to ask those tough, unpleasant questions rather than hide behind the veil of patriotism by deliberately ignoring ugly news.

So count me as one of those who will render a salute to COL John Murtha.

Likewise, Toome. COL John Murtha was, and always will be, a Marine, a Vietnam Veteran, and a brother-in-arms. CONGRESSMAN John Murtha, however, was and always will be, a political hack, who sacrificed his honor and the honor of his own ""beloved" Corps, on the altar of partisan politics. Hs political grandstanding in the matter, for whatever reason, is reprehensible, and in my opinion, an attempt to exert improper influence on UCMJ proceedings. He knew, that neither you, nor I, nor he himself, could ever know whether the killing of those Iraqi noncombatants constituted cold blooded murder, reckless disregard, or collateral damage. Why? Because none of us was there at Haditha that day. A man who served in combat in Vietnam, of all people, should know that. Unless an action is egregiously wrong, in direct violation of the ROE and/or orders, or the UCMJ, it is often impossible to ascertain what it constituted, and where there is doubt, that doubt MUST be resolved in favor of the troop(s) involved. The ROE in place at the time were similar to those common in Vietnam. Any of us can argue 'til the cows come home, what we think those ROE SHOULD have been, but that platoon had to work with the ROE they had, not the ones they MIGHT have had, or SHOULD have had. At the end of the day, all the investigation, all the hearings, and Courts Martial have spoken. They have found one Marine guilty of a minor offense, and the rest, not guilty and/or not culpable by reason of insufficient evidence and in one case, unlawful command influence. The last is especially reprehensible; it crosses the line between holding personnel accountable for their conduct, and persecuting them for diplomatic/political reasons. I do not want any "Breaker Morant" cases in OUR system of military justice, EVER!

I find it a pity, that John Murtha CHOSE to tarnish his own legacy; a good man once, gone bad in the cesspool of politics. He was not the first, nor will he be the last.

Murtha chose his side when he decided to endorse the terrorist press release.

 

[daveman]

I think Murthas stance on the hadith a incident was on the mark. He made statements to the effect that there were illegal killings and specifically stated that he felt blame responsibility for the incident lay with the civilian administran and not the marines. I strongly believe the marines actions constitute war crimes. That being said I think srgt waturichs sentence was appropriate. I like Murtha feel those who sent our forces to Iraq are to blame. Hence every US citizen is responsible for haditha.

Horseshit. He blamed the Marines involved.

"There was no firefight. There was no IED that killed these innocent people. Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood," Murtha said.

--

"They actually went into the houses and killed women and children," the congressman said.​

Furthermore:

Rep. John Murtha, D-Pennsylvania, told reporters Wednesday that he got his information from U.S. commanders, who said the investigation will show that the Marines deliberately killed the civilians.​

U.S. commanders don't predict the results of investigations. Murtha got his information from terrorists.

 

[georgephillip]

"The 24 Haditha victims are buried in a cemetery called Martyrs’ Graveyard. Graffiti on the deserted house of one of the families reads, 'Democracy assassinated the family that was here.'

The Haditha Massacre » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names