Large Scale Small Scale Solar

[Skull Pilot]

Tell me why is it better to spend billions of dollars on government funded solar "farms" that destroy wild open spaces and will create all kinds of problems with our existing power grid by dumping large and sporadic amounts of electricity into a single point than it is to rethink solar use to a large scale small scale strategy?

Let me elaborate.

We have unused real estate to the tune of hundreds of thousands of acres that are usable for solar power right now. There is no development needed and the infrastructure to install solar panels and use the power produces are already in place.

This real estate i speak of are the millions of south and southwest facing roof tops in every state.

Large scale small scale entails installing solar panels on every one of these already suitable roofs and tying them all into the grid. This strategy solves the major problems with large scale solar farms mentioned earlier; the cost of building them, the spoiling of our empty wild lands and the power distribution problems. The real estate already exists and power would trickle into the grid in small amounts from many points rather than just one

Homeowners could receive tax credits for installing their own panels or they could lease their rooftops to the utilities or receive a discounted electric rate.

This solution is simple, cost effective and immediately implementable. That our so called leaders haven't thought of it illustrates their fixation on big wasteful and obscenely expensive projects that are doing nothing for us.

 

[Old Rocks]

There are commercial and industrial buildings with roof space measured in acres. And with the new thin film solar panels, it would not add significant weight. As you stated, grid is already there, and no environmental damage from new roads.

 

[editec]

I agree.

WE ought to be creating MULTIPLE sources all over the nation.

The loss of efficiency we suffer will be offset by the fact that will solar might not be working on one area it will be working in another (wealther ya know?).

We need to ease our way into solar power to AUGMENT existing power systems.

And we ough not make it all in a few gigantic solar farms for the aforementioned reasons.

 

[waltky]

Solar power catchin' on in Chile...

Sun to keep Atacama Desert’s grapes growing
15 April 2012 - One thing not lacking in Chile's Atacama Desert is sunshine.

Being the driest desert on Earth, it boasts some of the highest levels of sunshine in the world. Here in the north of Chile, clouds appear on about 30 days a year at most. Such weather conditions, combined with huge stretches of empty land along the Pacific coast, should make it an ideal place to tap the sun for energy. Jose Miguel Fernandez says that the potential for solar energy in the Atacama is huge - and Chile needs to make use of it But solar panels are almost nowhere to be seen. So a small solar park in Copiapo Valley seems strangely lost among the orange-red hills and mountains of the Atacama.

It is operated by Subsole, one of Chile's major producers of fresh fruit, and its German partner, renewable energy company Kraftwerk. "We really wanted to tap into the opportunity that the Atacama Desert offers," says Jose Miguel Fernandez from Subsole, walking in-between the shiny panels that will harness the blistering sun above. "This project is in line with our commitment to the environment for future generations and a way to get other fruit producers to hopefully follow our path."

Copiapo is a green oasis in the desert, with Subsole's vineyards thriving thanks to a natural underground water reservoir. And to irrigate those vines, Subsole turns to the sun. Solar energy will help the firm to pump water during the day and then irrigate in the evening or at night.

The plant's energy capacity is only 300 kWp (kilowatt peak) - enough to power a 20-storey building - but Roberto Jordan, from Kraftwerk's subsidiary in Chile, says that it is the first working industrial-size installation in the whole of Atacama. And the desert, he adds, is capable of providing much more. "There is enough sun, there is enough land, so we should really explore further," says Mr Jordan.

Alternative sources

 

[Old Rocks]

In a desert land like that, close to the equator, that is the perfect place to use solar for desalinization.

 

[whitehall]

Solar energy is symbolic. You can't squeeze enough electricity out of it no matter how much you want to fool yourself. Ever see a solar farm? It's the ugliest thing in the world next to a gigantic humming useless windmill.

 

[Douger]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjrMDNpODOc]The Guy From Boston is Concerned About Global Warming - YouTube[/ame]

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Its not concentrated energy. Its an excellent idea on a local residential type basis. I'm working on plans for a new house right now and will be using solar along with geothermal coils.

 

[LavonneDaniels]

it would not add significant weight. As you stated, grid is already there, and no environmental damage from new roads.

 

[Old Rocks]

Solar energy is symbolic. You can't squeeze enough electricity out of it no matter how much you want to fool yourself. Ever see a solar farm? It's the ugliest thing in the world next to a gigantic humming useless windmill.

LOL. Hey Whitey, how is your new buggy whip manufacturing facility working out?

 

[Moonglow]

Tell me why is it better to spend billions of dollars on government funded solar "farms" that destroy wild open spaces and will create all kinds of problems with our existing power grid by dumping large and sporadic amounts of electricity into a single point than it is to rethink solar use to a large scale small scale strategy?

Let me elaborate.

We have unused real estate to the tune of hundreds of thousands of acres that are usable for solar power right now. There is no development needed and the infrastructure to install solar panels and use the power produces are already in place.

This real estate i speak of are the millions of south and southwest facing roof tops in every state.

Large scale small scale entails installing solar panels on every one of these already suitable roofs and tying them all into the grid. This strategy solves the major problems with large scale solar farms mentioned earlier; the cost of building them, the spoiling of our empty wild lands and the power distribution problems. The real estate already exists and power would trickle into the grid in small amounts from many points rather than just one

Homeowners could receive tax credits for installing their own panels or they could lease their rooftops to the utilities or receive a discounted electric rate.

This solution is simple, cost effective and immediately implementable. That our so called leaders haven't thought of it illustrates their fixation on big wasteful and obscenely expensive projects that are doing nothing for us.

they have thought of it, they hear it constantly by using israel as a selling point. they have 80% of all homes have solar panels that the govt. helps to install.

 

[there4eyeM]

Nothing is uglier than a nuke plant.

 

[whitehall]

You can't get enough energy off a rooftop to be independent of the grid. If you include air-conditioning and heating you need a solar panel the size of a football field to do any good. If the freaking things worked we all would have them but they don't and they rely on the manufacture and storage of haz-mat chemicals for batteries.

 

[flacaltenn]

Tell me why is it better to spend billions of dollars on government funded solar "farms" that destroy wild open spaces and will create all kinds of problems with our existing power grid by dumping large and sporadic amounts of electricity into a single point than it is to rethink solar use to a large scale small scale strategy?

Let me elaborate.

We have unused real estate to the tune of hundreds of thousands of acres that are usable for solar power right now. There is no development needed and the infrastructure to install solar panels and use the power produces are already in place.

This real estate i speak of are the millions of south and southwest facing roof tops in every state.

Large scale small scale entails installing solar panels on every one of these already suitable roofs and tying them all into the grid. This strategy solves the major problems with large scale solar farms mentioned earlier; the cost of building them, the spoiling of our empty wild lands and the power distribution problems. The real estate already exists and power would trickle into the grid in small amounts from many points rather than just one

Homeowners could receive tax credits for installing their own panels or they could lease their rooftops to the utilities or receive a discounted electric rate.

This solution is simple, cost effective and immediately implementable. That our so called leaders haven't thought of it illustrates their fixation on big wasteful and obscenely expensive projects that are doing nothing for us.

Couple of problems here.. The cost of buying stuff in KWatt quantity is always 2X or more expensive than buying it in MWatt quantity. The insurance, installation, roof maintenance, and financing all add to that "small scale" cost..

Moreover the bigger prob is "What problem are you attempting to solve?" The typical summer day load on the grid in Cali is 80% at 10PM of what it is at 1PM peak.

What you're asking for is to have the utility company find some fool to build a quick switch Nat Gas plant that he's gonna be asked to idle or throttle back severely for 6 hours a day. And THEN -- for 20% of the time (on rainy or cloudy days), he's gonna be asked to carry 90 to 110% of the normal grid load at a moments notice.

To do that -- you gotta count the cost of the PRIMARY GENERATOR sitting on his ASS with salaries, materials and maintenance costs for a FULL GRID back-up source or sources.

You got a fool who's gonna supply the back-up under those conditions?

BTW --- It's been implemented FOR YEARS in Cali.. Virtually GIVING AWAY home solar installs. In fact, I think there's a bill pending to REQUIRE all new dwellings to be "solar ready".. That'll happened right about the time that we decide to move on and actually PREPARE to supply Cheap and Adequate and RELIABLE sources of power..

 

[Old Rocks]

You can't get enough energy off a rooftop to be independent of the grid. If you include air-conditioning and heating you need a solar panel the size of a football field to do any good. If the freaking things worked we all would have them but they don't and they rely on the manufacture and storage of haz-mat chemicals for batteries.

Now Whitey, we all understand your problem with simple math. So here are some figures done for you. A solar panel, 290 watts, with an area of less than 24.5 sq. ft. So ten of them would take up 245 sq. ft. and deliver 2.9 kw. 20 would require 490 sq. ft. and deliver 5.8 kw. That is less than one side of a peaked roof for a house of 1200 sq. ft. and would deliver all the electricity than can be reasonbly used.

Astronergy CHSM 6612P 275-, 280-, 285-, and 290-watt solar modules

 

[Old Rocks]

Tell me why is it better to spend billions of dollars on government funded solar "farms" that destroy wild open spaces and will create all kinds of problems with our existing power grid by dumping large and sporadic amounts of electricity into a single point than it is to rethink solar use to a large scale small scale strategy?

Let me elaborate.

We have unused real estate to the tune of hundreds of thousands of acres that are usable for solar power right now. There is no development needed and the infrastructure to install solar panels and use the power produces are already in place.

This real estate i speak of are the millions of south and southwest facing roof tops in every state.

Large scale small scale entails installing solar panels on every one of these already suitable roofs and tying them all into the grid. This strategy solves the major problems with large scale solar farms mentioned earlier; the cost of building them, the spoiling of our empty wild lands and the power distribution problems. The real estate already exists and power would trickle into the grid in small amounts from many points rather than just one

Homeowners could receive tax credits for installing their own panels or they could lease their rooftops to the utilities or receive a discounted electric rate.

This solution is simple, cost effective and immediately implementable. That our so called leaders haven't thought of it illustrates their fixation on big wasteful and obscenely expensive projects that are doing nothing for us.

Couple of problems here.. The cost of buying stuff in KWatt quantity is always 2X or more expensive than buying it in MWatt quantity. The insurance, installation, roof maintenance, and financing all add to that "small scale" cost..

Moreover the bigger prob is "What problem are you attempting to solve?" The typical summer day load on the grid in Cali is 80% at 10PM of what it is at 1PM peak.

What you're asking for is to have the utility company find some fool to build a quick switch Nat Gas plant that he's gonna be asked to idle or throttle back severely for 6 hours a day. And THEN -- for 20% of the time (on rainy or cloudy days), he's gonna be asked to carry 90 to 110% of the normal grid load at a moments notice.

To do that -- you gotta count the cost of the PRIMARY GENERATOR sitting on his ASS with salaries, materials and maintenance costs for a FULL GRID back-up source or sources.

You got a fool who's gonna supply the back-up under those conditions?

BTW --- It's been implemented FOR YEARS in Cali.. Virtually GIVING AWAY home solar installs. In fact, I think there's a bill pending to REQUIRE all new dwellings to be "solar ready".. That'll happened right about the time that we decide to move on and actually PREPARE to supply Cheap and Adequate and RELIABLE sources of power..

$6200 for 5.8 kw of panels. Add and inverter, wiring, and do the work yourself and you have a system capable of supplying a normal home for under $10,000. Of course, if you are mentally handicapped and have no mechanical skills, you can pay someone else to do the work. Even then, an honest craftsman should not charge more than $5000 for such an installation.

Of course, if you wish to get it even cheaper, one can find if there is one of the solar co-ops in your area.

Solar Panels from Wholesale Solar