Lance Corporal Matthew Snyder controversy

[tommywho70x]

this is being heralded as a landmark first amendment case.

as usual, i'll reserve my own opinions until after we have looked at the facts some.


Lance Cpl. Matthew A. Snyder

Supreme Court Roundup - Court Takes Case of Church Protesting Marine?s Funeral - NYTimes.com

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/26/us/26funeral.html?pagewanted=print

SCOTUSblog Court to rule on funeral pickets

O'Reilly and Ann Coulter on Westboro Baptist Church vs. Snyder Family - Bill O'Reilly | The O'Reilly Factor - FOXNews.com

 

[Granny]

I don't think Westboro Church is a church at all - it's only members are the immediate family.

There was a case in VA some years back where a preacher and his wife in a church that was actually a cult got into a mess. It's still in operation but probably nowhere near as big as it used to be. At some point after a major split in the cult/church, he and his wife still had a following of a few people. He showed them how they could set themselves up as "churches," and of course being non-profit, they didn't need to pay taxes. I know there were checks involved where "invisible ink" was employed. I'm not sure how it worked, but the check clearing system could not pick up the names when the checks were processed. It was a huge mess and he and his wife both ended up doing federal time for tax evasion. I can't remember offhand whether any of the others involved got federal time or some other penalty. True story. I knew both of them - when the split occurred I saw my way out of the cult/church and I took it. I never looked back. We went through hell - but I never went back.

It would not be entirely out of the realm of possibility that these people have set themselves up as a "church" for the purpose of avoiding taxes. In any event, they are not in any way, shape or form "Christians."

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Fred Phelps is just another example of how fucked up liberals are. He is just continuing his long campaign of championing left wing causes. Why do you think he hates the US and service members who fight to defend it?

'Most-hated,' anti-gay preacher once fought for civil rights - CNN.com

 

[tommywho70x]

what is the anti-gay connection to cpl snyder's funeral?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That is the guy who leads that so called church, they protest funerals because "God hates Gays." I thought you said you wanted all the facts, and the fact is that, at heart, this guy is a left winger.

 

[random3434]

That is the guy who leads that so called church, they protest funerals because "God hates Gays." I thought you said you wanted all the facts, and the fact is that, at heart, this guy is a left winger.

Just like Timothy McVeigh is a right winger.

Timothy McVeigh, convicted and executed for the worst act of domestic terrorism in United States history, became a radicalized member of the far right-wing in the early 1990s. With fellow army veteran Terry Nichols, McVeigh conspired to destroy the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City as a blow to a federal government that they saw as an evil force.

http://www.historyguy.com/biofiles/mcveigh_timothy.html

 

[Amanda]

Taking Phelps seriously is only contributing to his cause. Knock it the fuck off already. Let shitbags like Phelps flail until they go blue in the face, but don't lend them credibility.

 

[Gunny]

what is the anti-gay connection to cpl snyder's funeral?

Phelps is actually an intolerant, right wing nut who claims to be Christian. There's nothing Christian about him if you actually read the Word.

Ascribing his hatred to either side of the political aisle is naive. Someone took care of Madelyn Murray O'Hare, and someone needs to take care of Phelps. He's a blight on any Christian, and only fuels the Anti-God Squad in presenting us as something we are not,.

 

[strollingbones]

phelps is an user....he uses anything he can to promote himself and keep himself in the lifestyle he is desiring...after all do you ever see him at these protests?

has nothing to do with rightwing or leftwing...or christian...it is all about money

 

[tommywho70x]

okay, we seem to be able to agree that phelps is bent and using twisted false christian values to be an attention-getting blowhard, but mr. phelps has this opinion supporting his right to be offensive:

“As utterly distasteful as these signs are,” Judge Robert B. King wrote for the majority, “they involve matters of public concern, including the issues of homosexuals in the military, the sex-abuse scandal within the Catholic Church, and the political and moral conduct of the United States and its citizens.”

my feeling was that the snyders erred in pursuing tort litigation rather than turning the other cheek. by suing, phelps is getting all the publicity and then some that he seeks. i also feel like the more advanced critters we know as god and the holy host do a much better job of punishing shit stains like phelps than a court can do.

 

[strollingbones]

you arent a parent are you tommy?

 

[tommywho70x]

you arent a parent are you tommy?

nope, never met a woman who hated me enough to do that to me so i get to be the crazy uncle to my sibs' and friends' kids.

i know this is leading somewhere ---- where?

 

[goldcatt]

I have mixed feelings about this case. On one hand, Phelps and his merry band are nothing but opportunists preying on the emotions of the recently bereaved and deserve nothing more than a boot where the sun don't shine. Trying to provoke family members and others at these funerals into doing something stupid for which they can sue is practically a cottage industry for them. When their motive is so apparent, they shouldn't be rewarded for it.

And yet...technically...what they do does fall under the First Amendment. There's a simple solution already in place which can be applied, that being time, place and manner restrictions. Simply set up a buffer zone around the site of a funeral or interment in which no organized protest can happen during the service and for a specified time before and after. Then let the bastards howl at the wind all they want - from a couple blocks away.

They're guaranteed a right to speak, they are not guaranteed either the ability to be in the face of their preferred audience or to speak in any manner, at any place and at any time they want.

 

[rdean]

That is the guy who leads that so called church, they protest funerals because "God hates Gays." I thought you said you wanted all the facts, and the fact is that, at heart, this guy is a left winger.

Funny, many left wingers are atheist. Most don't believe in "magical creation". Few want the US to follow "God's Laws".

Can you think of a political party that is opposite all these things?

A political party who wants to teach magical creation in public schools?

A political party that is so anti gay, they want to criminalize gays?

A political party that is nearly all Christian?

However Fred Phelps registered, we know what political party his views mirror most.

Don't deny it or you may become a laughing stock.

 

[strollingbones]

only a parent can understand the cruel trick of nature that allows you to outlive your own child...

only a parent could understand the pain that hearing someone cheering that your child is dead could cause...

you chide the parents for taking this course for causing more publicity for the man and his fake ass church...but you have to understand....and until you have a child...you would be able to...

i often say the only mistake oj made..was killing the son of fred goldman....

it is not a shortcoming...it is just an experience you have not had, yet.

myself, i am simply amazed a parent doesnt go out and get violent...and what jury would convict them...i am amazed a rolling thunder and their restraint...

so i am not surprised that the parents have done this...i am always surprised at how civil the parents react....

 

[tommywho70x]

i don't think chide is a fair or accurate term to describe the opinion i posted nor do i buy into that "only a parent can understand" rap about parents outliving their children.

i'm the second son of the eldest son of an ancient and pretty good sized clan.

i grew up in the big city and have seen a whole lot of death for someone who has never been on a battlefield.

what answers come back when the cui bono question is asked?

phelps benefits from all the attention he is getting. the family suffers from the stress of the litigation they have taken on.

is a $5 million judgement in their favor that they will never be able to collect going to do them any good or bring the dead marine back?

no.

 

[goldcatt]

only a parent can understand the cruel trick of nature that allows you to outlive your own child...

only a parent could understand the pain that hearing someone cheering that your child is dead could cause...

you chide the parents for taking this course for causing more publicity for the man and his fake ass church...but you have to understand....and until you have a child...you would be able to...

i often say the only mistake oj made..was killing the son of fred goldman....

it is not a shortcoming...it is just an experience you have not had, yet.

myself, i am simply amazed a parent doesnt go out and get violent...and what jury would convict them...i am amazed a rolling thunder and their restraint...

so i am not surprised that the parents have done this...i am always surprised at how civil the parents react....

And the parents (and others) getting violent is exactly what Phelps and Co. are looking for by doing this. It has nothing to do with beliefs and everything to do with cash. Fred Phelps and at least 2 of his sons are lawyers, and will and do file suit on behalf of the "church" at the drop of a hat. Scum like that make me glad I had my fin surgically removed.

 

[goldcatt]

i don't think chide is a fair or accurate term to describe the opinion i posted nor do i buy into that "only a parent can understand" rap about parents outliving their children.

i'm the second son of the eldest son of an ancient and pretty good sized clan.

i grew up in the big city and have seen a whole lot of death for someone who has never been on a battlefield.

what answers come back when the cui bono question is asked?

phelps benefits from all the attention he is getting. the family suffers from the stress of the litigation they have taken on.

is a $5 million judgement in their favor that they will never be able to collect going to do them any good or bring the dead marine back?

no.

But it is hitting these people exactly where it hurts, using their own tactics against them. They may never collect, and it won't bring their son back, but they can bankrupt the scumbags and diminish their ability to continue their scam on other families. To a lot of people, that's justice enough to pursue it.

 

[Gunny]

okay, we seem to be able to agree that phelps is bent and using twisted false christian values to be an attention-getting blowhard, but mr. phelps has this opinion supporting his right to be offensive:

“As utterly distasteful as these signs are,” Judge Robert B. King wrote for the majority, “they involve matters of public concern, including the issues of homosexuals in the military, the sex-abuse scandal within the Catholic Church, and the political and moral conduct of the United States and its citizens.”

my feeling was that the snyders erred in pursuing tort litigation rather than turning the other cheek. by suing, phelps is getting all the publicity and then some that he seeks. i also feel like the more advanced critters we know as god and the holy host do a much better job of punishing shit stains like phelps than a court can do.

I disagree with King. While what we, as a society are willing or not to tolerate as a society should not be determined by law.

Further, Phelps has no real argument. God is killing Marines because we allow homosexuals in the military? Phelps has made his name showing up at the funerals of deceased military personnel and disrespecting their ultimate sacrifice with his idiotic political agenda? Fuck him. I'd have NO problem putting my boot up his ass and calling him for the slimy, ground-hugging worm he is.

But .. what makes YOU better? With few exceptions, everyone hears want suits their fancy and try to build castles on sand arguments to support them, no matter how ridiculous. The very fact that Obama holds the Presidency of the US supports THAT. I see little difference between Phelps and Obama. Both or under-qualified mental midgets with about as much foresight as my cocker spaniel.

 

[tommywho70x]

okay, we seem to be able to agree that phelps is bent and using twisted false christian values to be an attention-getting blowhard, but mr. phelps has this opinion supporting his right to be offensive:

“As utterly distasteful as these signs are,” Judge Robert B. King wrote for the majority, “they involve matters of public concern, including the issues of homosexuals in the military, the sex-abuse scandal within the Catholic Church, and the political and moral conduct of the United States and its citizens.”

my feeling was that the snyders erred in pursuing tort litigation rather than turning the other cheek. by suing, phelps is getting all the publicity and then some that he seeks. i also feel like the more advanced critters we know as god and the holy host do a much better job of punishing shit stains like phelps than a court can do.

I disagree with King. While what we, as a society are willing or not to tolerate as a society should not be determined by law.

Further, Phelps has no real argument. God is killing Marines because we allow homosexuals in the military? Phelps has made his name showing up at the funerals of deceased military personnel and disrespecting their ultimate sacrifice with his idiotic political agenda? Fuck him. I'd have NO problem putting my boot up his ass and calling him for the slimy, ground-hugging worm he is.

But .. what makes YOU better? With few exceptions, everyone hears want suits their fancy and try to build castles on sand arguments to support them, no matter how ridiculous. The very fact that Obama holds the Presidency of the US supports THAT. I see little difference between Phelps and Obama. Both or under-qualified mental midgets with about as much foresight as my cocker spaniel.

i think you are getting close to the real 1st amendment issue here and that is: even if obnoxious speech is protected, if those actions result in tortious harm to someone, should they be able to get some compensation for the damage done by the speech?

there must be something to phelps' argument or the high court would never listen to it.

are you game for posting the court documents in here?

this is sport for me.

i like to think that i am a competant and objective journalist but this one offends me in many ways.

not the least of which is that a sociopath like phelps can even gain access to the supreme court when i've buried so many righteous people who were churned under by a system out of control without so much as due process at the local court level.