Labor Unions...Good or Bad?

[DontBeStupid]

Did I sign a multiyear contract with the landscaper? If I did, and made a dumb choice, should I be able to back out of that contract? If it's little Willie down the street, I could say don't cut my grass for two weeks, because I'll be out of town on vacation. Or you and little Willie could come to some agreement where he'd take care of it while you were away, and you'd honor the agreement when you returned.

What the fuck is your point?

wow...what a childish diversion....I mean....wow.....

too difficult for you to anbswer the question.

And you ask what is my point?

That means you are not only a child...but you are somewhat illiterate as well.

Cya moron...no time for childish debating.....

How about some adult debating? I can't help but notice you are choosing to not respond to me. Care to answer the question I posed earlier?

If someone works at a company 20 years, with a solid work record, should the company be allowed to fire him so they can bring in someone younger and cheaper?

Or how about this. It's easier.

If an employer enters into a multi-year contract with a union, should the employer be allowed to break the contract at any time to save money?

 

[Avorysuds]

Depends. Different circumstances affect things differently

So are you undecided or can you weigh pros against cons and come up with a choice answer?

I think it goes something like this. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. When a Union is created it's for a reason that is needed... Over time it's a money machine with so much power they actually destroy business.

Public sector Unions should never exists, even FDR knew that and he was about as evil and hatful as it gets when it comes to freedom.

 

[Listening]

If unions were gone, how long would those laws stay around?

Think of a story you heard about someone being screwed over at work. I can guarantee it was not a union position.

I really enjoy these undefined terms.

By screwed over...do you mean treated unfairly ?

How is that gauged ?

Here you go.

If someone works at a company 20 years, with a solid work record, should the company be allowed to fire him so they can bring in someone younger and cheaper?

Nice example.

What you need is criteria....or is this the only way someone can get screwed over.

And the answer is...generally if they want to, they can. They can always find a reason to fire you.

Next, 20 years means nothing. It does not say you are worth more.

If you don't get fired, it is because they want to keep you or don't think they can replace you.

What if they come to the 20 year guy and say, you can take a cut or be laid off....cause we can get this job done cheaper ?

Next.

 

[Trajan]

for the record they certainly were 'good', no one sane can argue for the right to employ a child to sow buttons on shirts for what amounted to slave wagers or make people work in The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Co..........


But, alas;


Private Unions- sometime in the mmid 70's the relationship changed into an adversarial one between the workers and management, I think they are both to blame but I have to say I think, the workers or that is their Union mgt. began to exploit that relationship.


Public Sector Unions- all you need to know is neither FDR or George Meany thought collective bargaining etc. in that venue, were a good idea.

 

[Avorysuds]

ok.... less then 300 words



bad.

Allow me to expand.

Profit > People.

And ReallyFuckinStupid sums up the issue with Unions perfectly. Unions are about profits, that is to say what money they make. A Union will demand so much that it literally collapses a country and then they STILL won’t give up demanding more. Unions literally only care about profit over people seeing as the end result is less or no jobs.

 

[DontBeStupid]

ok.... less then 300 words



bad.

Allow me to expand.

Profit > People.

And ReallyFuckinStupid sums up the issue with Unions perfectly. Unions are about profits, that is to say what money they make. A Union will demand so much that it literally collapses a country and then they STILL won’t give up demanding more. Unions literally only care about profit over people seeing as the end result is less or no jobs.

It's clear what I meant.

Stop lying about my posts.

 

[Buford]

Labor unions are bad when the American people have to bail out their business. All unions in govt are bad, even FDR agrees with that.

 

[Avorysuds]

Anyone who believes in a free market should embrace unions.

Incorrect. First off there is a huge difference in public Unions and Privet sector Unions. Secondly, understanding that a Union is created theoretically for a good reason means that when that reason no longer exists then the Union should be dissolved.

There is a reason all Unions try and attach themselves to public (tax dollar) money in some way, because Government just prints or borrows the money until we spend ourselves into oblivion while the privet sector would just go bankrupt and the Union would be shit outta luch… Unless you’re like GM, making deals with Obama.

 

[DontBeStupid]

I really enjoy these undefined terms.

By screwed over...do you mean treated unfairly ?

How is that gauged ?

Here you go.

If someone works at a company 20 years, with a solid work record, should the company be allowed to fire him so they can bring in someone younger and cheaper?

Nice example.

What you need is criteria....or is this the only way someone can get screwed over.

And the answer is...generally if they want to, they can. They can always find a reason to fire you.

Next, 20 years means nothing. It does not say you are worth more.

If you don't get fired, it is because they want to keep you or don't think they can replace you.

What if they come to the 20 year guy and say, you can take a cut or be laid off....cause we can get this job done cheaper ?

Next.

Well, there we go. "20 years means nothing". Loyalty and experience mean nothing.

Also, you think companies should be able to fire a loyal, experienced employee, simply to save money.

Who was it who said we don't need unions any more?

 

[Avorysuds]

Allow me to expand.

Profit > People.

And ReallyFuckinStupid sums up the issue with Unions perfectly. Unions are about profits, that is to say what money they make. A Union will demand so much that it literally collapses a country and then they STILL won’t give up demanding more. Unions literally only care about profit over people seeing as the end result is less or no jobs.

It's clear what I meant.

Stop lying about my posts.

Then stop saying stupid ass shit. We all get it, you hate anyone that owns a business and makes more money than you. The only time this is not true is when it *feels* like they should be allowed to make a profit.

You also believe, vastly illogically, that Republicans somehow carry the torch on lowering taxes for the rich and corporations... While every single Dem and Republican holding office understands that it helps the economy Dems do it them bitch that people need to "pay their fair share." The issue is not enough tax revenue, it spending so much more than could ever be taxed to pay for the growing programs both sides (Dems Reps) make.


You really think Unions need to make billions so that they can argue for more paid vacations and even higher wages??? Really???

A Union should represent something, today they represent greed seeing as it's a HUGE fucking business that makes them rich as fuck while they destroy business (jobs.)

 

[Misty]

Are labor unions good or bad for capitalism and economic growth?

Explain in 300 words or less, please.

Labour unions are bad for capitalism and economic growth because they force companies to view their workers as people. Companies would be so much more profitable if they could work a 14-year old to death. Unions prevent that.

And this attitude is why companies like the auto industry have gotten robotics to replace humans.

Unions were once good but like everything that becomes too powerful and corrupt, they are now bad.

Unions have made it harder for companies to compete and be more successful and they have given the power of the employee to exploit the employer.

 

[MeBelle]

Public sector-NO!

It is public sector unions that is bankrupting the state of California.
CalPers and Calstrs to be specific.

Try to get rid of a crappy teacher that even the School Board President doesn't like?

 

[Harry Dresden]

Are labor unions good or bad for capitalism and economic growth?

Explain in 300 words or less, please.

aw man i need to go at least 303 words.....ok here is the short version.....it depends....some places may still need a Union.....i know where i work, the PO they do.....otherwise you get treated like shit .......and i am just talking about how middle Management and above looks at the Employee....the only thing between us and them is the Union....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Are labor unions good or bad for capitalism and economic growth?

Explain in 300 words or less, please.

They are okay in the private sector.. They are not okay in the public sector.

cant agree with ya Willow.....Management is Management.....you get treated like shit in the public sector just as well in the private.....and everyone says you got the Dept of Labor to step in....yea right....

 

[Trajan]

Are labor unions good or bad for capitalism and economic growth?

Explain in 300 words or less, please.

They are okay in the private sector.. They are not okay in the public sector.

cant agree with ya Willow.....Management is Management.....you get treated like shit in the public sector just as well in the private.....and everyone says you got the Dept of Labor to step in....yea right....

that hasn't been my experience harry *shrugs*

 

[Harry Dresden]

Unions have created a lazy worker who doesn't have pride in their work. When a worker comes in and can do the least they can and get the same pay as the most diligent worker, there is no incentive for anyone to excel at their job. They usually cannot be fired and look for the easy way out.

If we have contract workers who are only rewarded contracts when they excel at their job and prove to be dependable worketrs, the company as whole is rewarded with higher pay and loyal workers.

there are lazy non-union workers too.....and there are Union workers who work their fucking asses off.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Unions have created a lazy worker who doesn't have pride in their work. When a worker comes in and can do the least they can and get the same pay as the most diligent worker, there is no incentive for anyone to excel at their job. They usually cannot be fired and look for the easy way out.

If we have contract workers who are only rewarded contracts when they excel at their job and prove to be dependable worketrs, the company as whole is rewarded with higher pay and loyal workers.

I love how you guys think a union worker can never be fired. Ever.

we had a guy here in the PO who just got fired for attendance.....and since he has already been suspended once for this, he wont be coming back....another girl for getting pass ports for illegals....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Unions have created a lazy worker who doesn't have pride in their work. When a worker comes in and can do the least they can and get the same pay as the most diligent worker, there is no incentive for anyone to excel at their job. They usually cannot be fired and look for the easy way out.

If we have contract workers who are only rewarded contracts when they excel at their job and prove to be dependable worketrs, the company as whole is rewarded with higher pay and loyal workers.

I love how you guys think a union worker can never be fired. Ever.

Unions tend to get rid of deadbeats before the company ever knows what happened.

depends on what a "deadbeat" is....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Pub dupes- perfect corporate tools/drones...antisocial? lol

Frankie go home....its supper time.....

 

[manifold]

Becuase in their union contract the "sick days" are slated as "days you are too sick to come in"

So Jim and Joe are in breach of their contract.....thats why it is wrong.

So it's just a matter of the fine print then. Got it.

I guess you weren't actually expecting to have your idiot notion challenged.

you challanged it and I responded...and you consider an employee being in breach of his contract as nothing but "fine print"...making you way too immature to debate with.

So I am done with you sparky.

First, you're on about how unions force the least acceptable behavior, or some bullshit like that...

Unions force a work environement where the best trend to the least acceptable...

And then when ^this very notion gets challenged, you try to change the debate to a matter of contractual obligation, even though you already stated the behavior was at the very least, 'acceptable', in your own words. So what is wrong with taking all the sick days you are contractually owed?