Labor Unions...Good or Bad?

[code1211]

What you guys are forgetting in your "your value is only what someone is willing to pay bullshit"is this...

The economy needs consumers. If you are paying your potential consumers a mere pittance...hell...even just enough to barely survive in this God awfully expensive country, there is no money available to buy the goods and services that business people make their livings upon. Over the past thirty years we have seen a huge decline in spending power in our working and middle class....which is the backbone of our economy. At the same time, we have seen the incomes of the wealthy climb by some 600%, and our economy slowly swirl down the toilet. The banking sector tried to make up for this by using easy credit and predatory lending practices(credit cards, mortgage refinances, etc.) Anne that slowed the decline down somewhat, but it was a bandaid on a shark bite....andthe banks profited hugely on other people's misery. Along comes 2008, and the whole dammed thing collapsed. When the issue all along was a lack of spending power by the vast majority of people who work for others.

You're absolutely right except for every fact you site, every cause-effect relationship you imagine and whatever conclusion it was you were trying to support.

If you are worth more than someone else is willing to pay, then you start your own business.

The downward spiral of the economy that you cite was rising for several consecutive quarters until the very early 90's and then enjoyed one of the biggest booms in the history of the republic until the dot.com bubble burst.

The unemployment rate was in the 4's and 5's through almost the entire Bush administration and it would have come down again by now except for the very nearly treasonous mismanagement of the Obama Administration.

There have always been wealthy people. The fact that there are more of them now than ever before is not a cause to panic. It's a cause to join them.

You're a defeated and empty Leftist with no hope, no ambition and no future.

Oh, wait. That's redundant.

 

[Meister]

So....all this talk about Reagan being some kind of demigod for the GOP isn't for real? You mean to tell me that the right's penchant for worshiping billionaires and screwing over the working class isn't a warmed over version of the lie that is trickle down economics?

And you wonder why some on the left call you "dupes".

I'm not a billionaire, but I made some good money because of Reagan and his economics.

What about everyone else? Fuck them...right?

So...I was the only one? A lot of people who weren't rich did quite well during that same period of time, and not by government social policies either. The opportunity was there for all, Steel, it was up to the individual to take avantage of it. But, I don't think that matters to you...because of your political leanings.

 

[Mr Natural]

What you guys are forgetting in your "your value is only what someone is willing to pay bullshit"is this...

The economy needs consumers. If you are paying your potential consumers a mere pittance...hell...even just enough to barely survive in this God awfully expensive country, there is no money available to buy the goods and services that business people make their livings upon. Over the past thirty years we have seen a huge decline in spending power in our working and middle class....which is the backbone of our economy. At the same time, we have seen the incomes of the wealthy climb by some 600%, and our economy slowly swirl down the toilet. The banking sector tried to make up for this by using easy credit and predatory lending practices(credit cards, mortgage refinances, etc.) Anne that slowed the decline down somewhat, but it was a bandaid on a shark bite....andthe banks profited hugely on other people's misery. Along comes 2008, and the whole dammed thing collapsed. When the issue all along was a lack of spending power by the vast majority of people who work for others.

You're absolutely right except for every fact you site, every cause-effect relationship you imagine and whatever conclusion it was you were trying to support.

If you are worth more than someone else is willing to pay, then you start your own business.

The downward spiral of the economy that you cite was rising for several consecutive quarters until the very early 90's and then enjoyed one of the biggest booms in the history of the republic until the dot.com bubble burst.

The unemployment rate was in the 4's and 5's through almost the entire Bush administration and it would have come down again by now except for the very nearly treasonous mismanagement of the Obama Administration.

There have always been wealthy people. The fact that there are more of them now than ever before is not a cause to panic. It's a cause to join them.
You're a defeated and empty Leftist with no hope, no ambition and no future.

Oh, wait. That's redundant.

And for the vast majority, that means getting a good paying job and saving and investing wisely.

 

[Steelplate]

What you guys are forgetting in your "your value is only what someone is willing to pay bullshit"is this...

The economy needs consumers. If you are paying your potential consumers a mere pittance...hell...even just enough to barely survive in this God awfully expensive country, there is no money available to buy the goods and services that business people make their livings upon. Over the past thirty years we have seen a huge decline in spending power in our working and middle class....which is the backbone of our economy. At the same time, we have seen the incomes of the wealthy climb by some 600%, and our economy slowly swirl down the toilet. The banking sector tried to make up for this by using easy credit and predatory lending practices(credit cards, mortgage refinances, etc.) Anne that slowed the decline down somewhat, but it was a bandaid on a shark bite....andthe banks profited hugely on other people's misery. Along comes 2008, and the whole dammed thing collapsed. When the issue all along was a lack of spending power by the vast majority of people who work for others.

You're absolutely right except for every fact you site, every cause-effect relationship you imagine and whatever conclusion it was you were trying to support.

If you are worth more than someone else is willing to pay, then you start your own business.

The downward spiral of the economy that you cite was rising for several consecutive quarters until the very early 90's and then enjoyed one of the biggest booms in the history of the republic until the dot.com bubble burst.

The unemployment rate was in the 4's and 5's through almost the entire Bush administration and it would have come down again by now except for the very nearly treasonous mismanagement of the Obama Administration.

There have always been wealthy people. The fact that there are more of them now than ever before is not a cause to panic. It's a cause to join them.

You're a defeated and empty Leftist with no hope, no ambition and no future.

Oh, wait. That's redundant.

Really scumbag? Funny whenever someone puts up a legitimate argument, you assholes sink to the namecalling bullshit. Busy goes to show how deep your brainwashing goes.

 

[code1211]

What you guys are forgetting in your "your value is only what someone is willing to pay bullshit"is this...

The economy needs consumers. If you are paying your potential consumers a mere pittance...hell...even just enough to barely survive in this God awfully expensive country, there is no money available to buy the goods and services that business people make their livings upon. Over the past thirty years we have seen a huge decline in spending power in our working and middle class....which is the backbone of our economy. At the same time, we have seen the incomes of the wealthy climb by some 600%, and our economy slowly swirl down the toilet. The banking sector tried to make up for this by using easy credit and predatory lending practices(credit cards, mortgage refinances, etc.) Anne that slowed the decline down somewhat, but it was a bandaid on a shark bite....andthe banks profited hugely on other people's misery. Along comes 2008, and the whole dammed thing collapsed. When the issue all along was a lack of spending power by the vast majority of people who work for others.

You're absolutely right except for every fact you site, every cause-effect relationship you imagine and whatever conclusion it was you were trying to support.

If you are worth more than someone else is willing to pay, then you start your own business.

The downward spiral of the economy that you cite was rising for several consecutive quarters until the very early 90's and then enjoyed one of the biggest booms in the history of the republic until the dot.com bubble burst.

The unemployment rate was in the 4's and 5's through almost the entire Bush administration and it would have come down again by now except for the very nearly treasonous mismanagement of the Obama Administration.

There have always been wealthy people. The fact that there are more of them now than ever before is not a cause to panic. It's a cause to join them.

You're a defeated and empty Leftist with no hope, no ambition and no future.

Oh, wait. That's redundant.

Really scumbag? Funny whenever someone puts up a legitimate argument, you assholes sink to the namecalling bullshit. Busy goes to show how deep your brainwashing goes.

I said your argument was not legitimate. If you want to be successful in the USA, then do so. There's in no secret on how to do this. Go to work, prove your worth and either advance within the same organization or learn there and go elsewhere when the opportunity presents itself.

My favorite example that you present as the big guy victimizing the little guy is the predatory lending practices. Really? Are you serious? Who forced the guy asking for the loan to take the loan? He asked for the loan. Understand? If he is a victim, he's av victim of his own haste and stupidity.

Unless you can show me how you are more valuable than your market value, there is no answer to what I said.

Did you notice that you said straight up that if no response is available then name calling is the next step. In your post you name call with both Scumbag and Asshole.

Interesting bit of blindness there.

I stand by what I said. YOU are responsible for your own life. If you don't like your own life, do a quick audit of what you've done up to now and see if there might be a way to a better spot in the future.

 

[MikeK]

Keynesian Economics was never used. It demands that in good time the treasury be filled to overflowing and then in bad time the EXCESS funds be distributed. Keynseian Economics does not recommend borrowing to give it away.

You are asserting that J.M. Keynes' principle of Demand Side process cannot function unless the most puristic rules are followed -- which is pure sophistry. The elementary formula you've put forth refers to ideal but absolutely non-essential circumstances.

The primary objective of Keynsian economics is to keep money circulating to avoid systemic stagnation, such as we are seeing today. And the way to do it is to see that the Nation's wealth resources find their way into the hands of those who will spend rather than hoard them. That is precisely what FDR did via The New Deal, which elevated the American working class to middle class prosperity and led directly to the most productive decades in civilized history.

Also, and not to put too fine a point on this, how do we run up a 15+ Trillion Dollar debt using Supply Side economics?

Easy. You start with a projected surplus, such as Bush inherited from Clinton. Then you initiate two major military adventures without budgeting for either.

Then you impose a substanial tax reduction on your "base" of rich and ultra-rich cronies and supporters. An action which anyone who dozed through Economics 101 knows is unavoidably destructive if done in conjunction with ongoing military operations, which can be and often are unpredictably costly.

Then you approve attachment of a pharmaceutical (Part-D) rider to Medicare, rather than allowing Medicare to negotiate prices with the pharmaceutical industry -- as did Canada and the VA.

Then you embark on a profligate spending spree which makes it obvious that your intention is to sabotage the economy as a means of weakening the middle class, which is the objective of your corporatist sponsors.

Giving away cash is what you are prescribing and that is exactly what the Big 0 is doing.

Were it not for the damage already done to the economy by the Bush Crime Family Obama's expenditures would seem relatively trivial.

It's also what W did.

Has Obama started any ruinously costly military engagements? Start with that.

Clinton had the scales going the other way.

They don't call Clinton "Slick Willie" for nothing. Clinton covered his droppings before he left Office by effecting a manageable budget and leaving a projected surplus. But the stink of his dirty dealings wasn't noticed for years until the effects of his repealing Glass-Steagal and other important regulations emerged. Where Bush went to work with an ax, Clinton used a time bomb.

Bill Clinton is a different kind of scoundrel, but a scoundrel nonetheless.

Do you ever review real facts or just repeat what you hear at the Union Hall?

I don't know your situation but if you have grown up enjoying middle class benefits, either directly or indirectly, you have the union movement in America to thank for your comforts and blessings.

Don't piss on the unions. In spite of their warts and flaws they are the reason American workers earn living wages and enjoy any benefits at all. And if you don't benefit from the union movement, how about your parents or grandparents?

Or are you a millionaire at leisure?

 

[code1211]

Keynesian Economics was never used. It demands that in good time the treasury be filled to overflowing and then in bad time the EXCESS funds be distributed. Keynseian Economics does not recommend borrowing to give it away.

You are asserting that J.M. Keynes' principle of Demand Side process cannot function unless the most puristic rules are followed -- which is pure sophistry. The elementary formula you've put forth refers to ideal but absolutely non-essential circumstances.

The primary objective of Keynsian economics is to keep money circulating to avoid systemic stagnation, such as we are seeing today. And the way to do it is to see that the Nation's wealth resources find their way into the hands of those who will spend rather than hoard them. That is precisely what FDR did via The New Deal, which elevated the American working class to middle class prosperity and led directly to the most productive decades in civilized history.

Also, and not to put too fine a point on this, how do we run up a 15+ Trillion Dollar debt using Supply Side economics?

Easy. You start with a projected surplus, such as Bush inherited from Clinton. Then you initiate two major military adventures without budgeting for either.

Then you impose a substanial tax reduction on your "base" of rich and ultra-rich cronies and supporters. An action which anyone who dozed through Economics 101 knows is unavoidably destructive if done in conjunction with ongoing military operations, which can be and often are unpredictably costly.

Then you approve attachment of a pharmaceutical (Part-D) rider to Medicare, rather than allowing Medicare to negotiate prices with the pharmaceutical industry -- as did Canada and the VA.

Then you embark on a profligate spending spree which makes it obvious that your intention is to sabotage the economy as a means of weakening the middle class, which is the objective of your corporatist sponsors.



Were it not for the damage already done to the economy by the Bush Crime Family Obama's expenditures would seem relatively trivial.


Has Obama started any ruinously costly military engagements? Start with that.

Clinton had the scales going the other way.

They don't call Clinton "Slick Willie" for nothing. Clinton covered his droppings before he left Office by effecting a manageable budget and leaving a projected surplus. But the stink of his dirty dealings wasn't noticed for years until the effects of his repealing Glass-Steagal and other important regulations emerged. Where Bush went to work with an ax, Clinton used a time bomb.

Bill Clinton is a different kind of scoundrel, but a scoundrel nonetheless.

Do you ever review real facts or just repeat what you hear at the Union Hall?

I don't know your situation but if you have grown up enjoying middle class benefits, either directly or indirectly, you have the union movement in America to thank for your comforts and blessings.

Don't piss on the unions. In spite of their warts and flaws they are the reason American workers earn living wages and enjoy any benefits at all. And if you don't benefit from the union movement, how about your parents or grandparents?

Or are you a millionaire at leisure?

You say that Keynesian economics has been followed by using only a part of it.

For your net birthday, put a pinch of salt on the table and call it a cake.

 

[asaratis]

If you draw a pay check, you owe a huge debt of gratitude to the Labor Movement.

Bullshit! You owe gratitude to that which provides the job for you.

Just in case you're wondering, the only jobs created by unions are for the union fat cats and their staffs.

Unions SUCK! Unions are legalized MAFIA!

Allow me to clarify my statement based upon recent conversation with a learned member of the local IBEW.

There are benefits to maintaining some of the trade unions, such as electricians, plumbers, HVAC, carpenters and a few others. These unions keep the quality of construction up by providing apprentice programs to refine the skills of those seeking to become journeymen...thus raising the quality of the workmanship in each category.

(Of course my reservation is that after they become journeymen, they learn how to sit on their asses and milk a construction project for all it's worth. The quality of work is up...but the cost is exponentially higher!)