Labor Unions...Good or Bad?

[Nosmo King]

Unions provide apprenticeship programs and worker safety and health training. Unions are the only means whereby the commodity of labor (and face it, corporations view labor as a commodity not an asset) can get a fair shake in the free wheeling universe of modern American Capitalism.

Unions provide for fairness in pay, benefit, health and safety and many other work place issues.

I understand why Conservatives hate labor. They have been indoctrinated to think that way. The corporate shills they read and listen to are paid by those who want to wring every once of productivity out of a human and then toss it aside like so much scrap. They don't want a prosperous Middle Class anymore. They want bigger stock prices.

 

[manifold]

Definitely more good than bad.

 

[Listening]

They've been both good and bad.

Don'tBeStupid says they prevent abuse of workers.....

Wrong....

Laws do that.

Unions have advocated for those laws.

Good for them.

They also advocate for laws that give them more leverage.

Bad for us.

 

[Listening]

Unions tend to get rid of deadbeats before the company ever knows what happened.

The company defnition of a deadbeat is a lot different than the union definition of a deadbeat.

 

[DontBeStupid]

They've been both good and bad.

Don'tBeStupid says they prevent abuse of workers.....

Wrong....

Laws do that.

Unions have advocated for those laws.

Good for them.

They also advocate for laws that give them more leverage.

Bad for us.

If unions were gone, how long would those laws stay around?

Think of a story you heard about someone being screwed over at work. I can guarantee it was not a union position.

 

[Jarhead]

They've been both good and bad.

Don'tBeStupid says they prevent abuse of workers.....

Wrong....

Laws do that.

Unions have advocated for those laws.

Good for them.

They also advocate for laws that give them more leverage.

Bad for us.

If unions were gone, how long would those laws stay around?

Think of a story you heard about someone being screwed over at work. I can guarantee it was not a union position.

the key word of your statement is "story"...

I have never met someone who was screwed over at work whoi did not deserve it.

Work hard, dont use all of your sick days, show a high interest level in what you do, dont complain about how much you hate your job...and you wont get screwed over.

Not really considered rocket science.

 

[francoHFW]

Pub dupes- perfect corporate tools/drones...antisocial? lol

 

[code1211]

Are labor unions good or bad for capitalism and economic growth?

Explain in 300 words or less, please.

They are both good and bad.

There are really two distinct kinds of unions: Trade Unions and Labor Unions. Trade Unions train and qualify skilled tradesmen. Labor Unions organize workers to provide both higher pay and more costly benefits.

In both cases, both of these organizations can supply a more stable workforce. Trade Unions are not the source of ongoing expenses to any employer unless that trade is continuously required. Labor unions are the source of ongoing expenses.

When the level of wages and benefits for a particular group of workers rises to the point that the end cost of the product is no longer priced to provide a value in the eyes of the buyer, then that product will not be sought and the company will cease to exist. I have dealt with many companies at which this has occurred.

The way of the world today is that products of equal quality can be produced at lower costs and the past providers need to figure out ways to increase the value of the products they hope to provide.

If Union labor increases the quality and the cost stays the same, value increases. If union labor increases the costs and qualtiy stays the same, value erodes. Customers seek the highest value.

So, if the existance of the union enhances value to the customer, it is good, if it erodes that value, it is bad.

 

[code1211]

I think there was a time and place for unions. I think those times have passed. Also I think all unions should be abolished in the public sector. When our tax dollars are paying you , YOU SHOULD not allowed to strike period. Teachers should be judged on their merit and not how many years they have been teachers because that makes them lazy when they know they cant be fired

In other words ...

we tax payers should be able to fuck over public sector workers.

Define how that would occur.

 

[Jarhead]

Unions provide apprenticeship programs and worker safety and health training. Unions are the only means whereby the commodity of labor (and face it, corporations view labor as a commodity not an asset) can get a fair shake in the free wheeling universe of modern American Capitalism.

Unions provide for fairness in pay, benefit, health and safety and many other work place issues.

I understand why Conservatives hate labor. They have been indoctrinated to think that way. The corporate shills they read and listen to are paid by those who want to wring every once of productivity out of a human and then toss it aside like so much scrap. They don't want a prosperous Middle Class anymore. They want bigger stock prices.

Unions force a work environement where the best trend to the least acceptable.

Jim and Joe both get 6 sick days.
Jim uses all of them...3 as additional vacation days.
Joe uses only 3 of them....and loses the other threee...but hey...he was onlyh sick 3 days.

They both get the same raise per union contract.

Next year both Jim AND Joe use all of their sick days, even though neither one was sick for more than 3 days.

 

[DontBeStupid]

They've been both good and bad.

Don'tBeStupid says they prevent abuse of workers.....

Wrong....

Laws do that.

Unions have advocated for those laws.

Good for them.

They also advocate for laws that give them more leverage.

Bad for us.

If unions were gone, how long would those laws stay around?

Think of a story you heard about someone being screwed over at work. I can guarantee it was not a union position.

the key word of your statement is "story"...

I have never met someone who was screwed over at work whoi did not deserve it.

Work hard, dont use all of your sick days, show a high interest level in what you do, dont complain about how much you hate your job...and you wont get screwed over.

Not really considered rocket science.

Uhm, screwed over kind of implies they didn't deserve it. They were doing all the things you suggested, and still got fired due to "budget cuts" or some other bull shit.

 

[Listening]

They've been both good and bad.

Don'tBeStupid says they prevent abuse of workers.....

Wrong....

Laws do that.

Unions have advocated for those laws.

Good for them.

They also advocate for laws that give them more leverage.

Bad for us.

If unions were gone, how long would those laws stay around?

Think of a story you heard about someone being screwed over at work. I can guarantee it was not a union position.

I really enjoy these undefined terms.

By screwed over...do you mean treated unfairly ?

How is that gauged ?

 

[Lovebears65]

Unions have created a lazy worker who doesn't have pride in their work. When a worker comes in and can do the least they can and get the same pay as the most diligent worker, there is no incentive for anyone to excel at their job. They usually cannot be fired and look for the easy way out.

If we have contract workers who are only rewarded contracts when they excel at their job and prove to be dependable worketrs, the company as whole is rewarded with higher pay and loyal workers.

I love how you guys think a union worker can never be fired. Ever.

Unions tend to get rid of deadbeats before the company ever knows what happened.

Not in teaching you just have to watch Waiting for superman to know that. They just pass them on to another school if they have tenure. Chris christie says it is almost impossible to fire a teacher with tenure

 

[DontBeStupid]

I think there was a time and place for unions. I think those times have passed. Also I think all unions should be abolished in the public sector. When our tax dollars are paying you , YOU SHOULD not allowed to strike period. Teachers should be judged on their merit and not how many years they have been teachers because that makes them lazy when they know they cant be fired

In other words ...

we tax payers should be able to fuck over public sector workers.

Define how that would occur.

Simple.

Elect a Governor who removes collective bargaining rights, cuts pay and then passes a law whereby all public sector workers get raises only after they publicly announce their salaries and have the raise voted on by tax payers.

Or in other words, Wisconsin.

 

[Dick Tuck]

I love how you guys think a union worker can never be fired. Ever.

Unions tend to get rid of deadbeats before the company ever knows what happened.

Not in teaching you just have to watch Waiting for superman to know that. They just pass them on to another school if they have tenure. Chris christie says it is almost impossible to fire a teacher with tenure

Tenure is a different protection, that doesn't have anything to do with dumping dead wood. Tenure is a negotiated contract clause, which is vested, usually over 7 years. To dump that, is to risk the more serious problem of limiting academic freedom. I think that's what many on the right want to see happen. They don't want to see anything other than robots teach their kids in rote.

 

[manifold]

Unions provide apprenticeship programs and worker safety and health training. Unions are the only means whereby the commodity of labor (and face it, corporations view labor as a commodity not an asset) can get a fair shake in the free wheeling universe of modern American Capitalism.

Unions provide for fairness in pay, benefit, health and safety and many other work place issues.

I understand why Conservatives hate labor. They have been indoctrinated to think that way. The corporate shills they read and listen to are paid by those who want to wring every once of productivity out of a human and then toss it aside like so much scrap. They don't want a prosperous Middle Class anymore. They want bigger stock prices.

Unions force a work environement where the best trend to the least acceptable.

Jim and Joe both get 6 sick days.
Jim uses all of them...3 as additional vacation days.
Joe uses only 3 of them....and loses the other threee...but hey...he was onlyh sick 3 days.

They both get the same raise per union contract.

Next year both Jim AND Joe use all of their sick days, even though neither one was sick for more than 3 days.

Time is money. Why is it ok for corporations to maximize profit but not laborers?

 

[DontBeStupid]

They've been both good and bad.

Don'tBeStupid says they prevent abuse of workers.....

Wrong....

Laws do that.

Unions have advocated for those laws.

Good for them.

They also advocate for laws that give them more leverage.

Bad for us.

If unions were gone, how long would those laws stay around?

Think of a story you heard about someone being screwed over at work. I can guarantee it was not a union position.

I really enjoy these undefined terms.

By screwed over...do you mean treated unfairly ?

How is that gauged ?

Here you go.

If someone works at a company 20 years, with a solid work record, should the company be allowed to fire him so they can bring in someone younger and cheaper?

 

[Jarhead]

Unions provide apprenticeship programs and worker safety and health training. Unions are the only means whereby the commodity of labor (and face it, corporations view labor as a commodity not an asset) can get a fair shake in the free wheeling universe of modern American Capitalism.

Unions provide for fairness in pay, benefit, health and safety and many other work place issues.

I understand why Conservatives hate labor. They have been indoctrinated to think that way. The corporate shills they read and listen to are paid by those who want to wring every once of productivity out of a human and then toss it aside like so much scrap. They don't want a prosperous Middle Class anymore. They want bigger stock prices.

Unions force a work environement where the best trend to the least acceptable.

Jim and Joe both get 6 sick days.
Jim uses all of them...3 as additional vacation days.
Joe uses only 3 of them....and loses the other threee...but hey...he was onlyh sick 3 days.

They both get the same raise per union contract.

Next year both Jim AND Joe use all of their sick days, even though neither one was sick for more than 3 days.

Time is money. Why is it ok for corporations to maximize profit but not laborers?

you missed my point.

Not sure how though. It really was not so difficult to grasp.

But whatever.

Have a great day.

 

[code1211]

Unions have created a lazy worker who doesn't have pride in their work. When a worker comes in and can do the least they can and get the same pay as the most diligent worker, there is no incentive for anyone to excel at their job. They usually cannot be fired and look for the easy way out.

If we have contract workers who are only rewarded contracts when they excel at their job and prove to be dependable worketrs, the company as whole is rewarded with higher pay and loyal workers.

I love how you guys think a union worker can never be fired. Ever.

I was hired as a manager to oversee a union shop at which nobody had been fired in more than 10 years.

The contract said exactly how to fire a person and all I needed to do was follow the contract. The ability to fire a worker who is indolent is not curtailed by the contract. It is defined. A manager who has a bad employee and cannot fire that bad employee is lazy, afraid or incompetent. Maybe all three.

Firing a union employee or any employee should be done only after all of the steps have been completed. No matter how bad any trained employee is, that employee is better than a guy who is not trained and is starting on his first day. The only question an employee should have during the final review to terminate is what took you so long. He should have heard in previous meetings what was expected, how the expectaion was not being met, what was needed to meet the expectation and what the resources were to achieve.

Disciplinary action is based on the word discipline which descends from the same root as disciple. Disciplinary action either creates a disciple or a former employee.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Unions force a work environement where the best trend to the least acceptable.

Jim and Joe both get 6 sick days.
Jim uses all of them...3 as additional vacation days.
Joe uses only 3 of them....and loses the other threee...but hey...he was onlyh sick 3 days.

They both get the same raise per union contract.

Next year both Jim AND Joe use all of their sick days, even though neither one was sick for more than 3 days.

Unions don't force one raise for all workers. They set a minimum. Companies can, and do, give higher raises based on merit.

It's amazing how little you guys actually know about unions.