L.A. Mayor can go suck a hot tamale

[Ravi]

1099 for contracted labor from those who are ELIGABLE for work in the US is perfectly legal. Using a 1099 as a loophole to hire ILLEGAL LABOR is not in any way status quo, acceptable etc.


Here.. Ii'll let some carpenters tell you all about it.
http://www.carpenters.org/misclassification/UBC 1099 Summary Document1.pdf

The IRS is not the sole legal body of federal labor law, Ravir. And i can promise you that they care enough to let me know each and every time when an illegal has used fake ass IDs to procure employement. And you can spare me the dramatizations about "giving the gov't the perogative to decide who an emplolyer wants to hire". If you gave the slightest damn about that you wouldn't support affirmative action programs or other social welfare programs that use tax credits like a dangling carrot.

oh, I didn't realize that misdomeanors are not crimes anymore. Further, CLEARLY when a bank robber is inside the vault we just let em stay there until he is done sending whats in the safe deposit boxes BACK TO MEXICO..


And no, we don't kick in doors for speeding tickets but we also don't ignore unregistered vehicles on our tax funded highways.

SNAP.

I've got news for you. One, the IRS is legally unable to give information to the rest of the federal government. And two, just because some people break the law doesn't mean that everyone does it. Go after the criminals, not the people that follow the law. I've know this is true from experience in dealing with the IRS...they are happy if you pay backup withholding on people that you 1099. In fact, they insist if the person you 1099 is not paying their taxes. Why punish the people that follow the law?

Oh, and last time I checked bank robbery was a felony.

 

[Shogun]

Okay, let's see the cost/benefit analysis. And explain what technology and how it would work.

I hope you aren't advocating killing people that sneak across the border.

certainly detainment.. at gunpoint if necessary.


and, AGAIN, i've explained the tech behind making I9s immediatly verifiable. Miles and MILES of KOA campsites and RV parks. Redirect prison system funding from non-violent drug offendors to La Migra. Repeal NAFTA until mexico hops on board. Do you really think that you can diffuse the prerogative of America with reminding us that it's going to cost something? Heres a hint: WE ARE PAYING ALREADY.

 

[Ravi]

I think you mistook what I was saying (and after re-reading I can see why).

There are so many variables and unknowns that I could easily construct an analysis to support (or reject) whatever suits my fancy that day.

Knowing you I have no doubt of that. But I would like you to explain how much it would cost to put a bubble over the USA...and how you would make up for the loss of revenue that results in Americans staying away from the coasts.

 

[manifold]

Knowing you I have no doubt of that. But I would like you to explain how much it would cost to put a bubble over the USA...and how you would make up for the loss of revenue that results in Americans staying away from the coasts.

That's just silly.

 

[Ravi]

But who needs to when they are using the 1099 to circumvent employment labor laws already? If I, as a contracting employer, use this status to skip paying unemp insurance, ss, employee insurance, any benefits, etc, then what makes you think Im going to pay anyone overtime?

So, Shogun, you want laws that will end up punishing law abiding employers? Why?

 

[Ravi]

That's just silly.

How else are you going to keep people out? A fence along the border will just move the smuggling operations to the seacoast or the air.

You really haven't thought this out.

 

[Shogun]

Ummm, I slaked that need some time ago. I guess you forgot about how you spent the better part of a week refusing to acknowledge that the US Government regulates, where it sees fit, what people can legally ingest.

....at the behast of ESTIMATES about the correlation between SHS and cancer... rather than the population of cigarettes smokes??


Are you going to keep with this until I have to point out how an estimate on a detrimental population, with concrete evidence of harm, probably is a little different than an estimate on the correlation of SHS harm? I mean, I'll give you another reason to love/hate me if you need it but...

 

[manifold]

....at the behast of ESTIMATES about the correlation between SHS and cancer... rather than the population of cigarettes smokes??


Are you going to keep with this until I have to point out how an estimate on a detrimental population, with concrete evidence of harm, probably is a little different than an estimate on the correlation of SHS harm? I mean, I'll give you another reason to love/hate me if you need it but...

Ummm, I never once disagreed with you about SHS. Go back and check if you don't believe me. And yes, I acknowledge the differences between the nature of "estimates" in each case. However, I also acknowledge the similarities. But please, explain to me again how our government doesn't regulate what people can legally ingest. That's almost as funny as Artardbaba insisting that Jesus would condemn welfare.

 

[Shogun]

I've got news for you. One, the IRS is legally unable to give information to the rest of the federal government. And two, just because some people break the law doesn't mean that everyone does it. Go after the criminals, not the people that follow the law. I've know this is true from experience in dealing with the IRS...they are happy if you pay backup withholding on people that you 1099. In fact, they insist if the person you 1099 is not paying their taxes. Why punish the people that follow the law?

Oh, and last time I checked bank robbery was a felony.

1. Hiring Employees


If you hire employees there is information that you need to secure for your records and forms that you must complete. You must verify that each new employee is legally eligible to work in the United States. Have the employees you hire fill out Form I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification (PDF) and Form W-4, Employee's Withholding Allowance Certificate (PDF). If your employees qualify and want to receive advanced earned income credit payments, they must give you a completed Form W-5, Earned Income Credit Advanced Payment Certificate (PDF).

IRS Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITINs) for Aliens
Do not accept an ITIN in place of an SSN for employee identification or for work. An ITIN is only available to resident and nonresident aliens who are not eligible for U.S. employment and need identification for other tax purposes. You can identify an ITIN because it is a 9-digit number, beginning with the number "9" and is formatted like an SSN (NNN-NN-NNN).

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=98164,00.html


You can take it up with the IRS.


2. Well no shit. Not every latino in America is an illegal alien. I've never suggested as much.. If you think this to be the case then quote me and I'll clear up your confusion. BUT, the ones who are here ILLEGALLY? yes, Im afraid every one of them have broken the law. And yes, I advocate hunting down every illegal who has spuriously disregarded our laws when deciding to circumvent legal citizenship.


So, crossing the border illegally is NOT breaking the law now? Using the 1099 in order to skirt employment requirements is NOT breaking a loophole?


ps, funny how the IRS addresses your ID solution, eh?

 

[Shogun]

So, Shogun, you want laws that will end up punishing law abiding employers? Why?

because skirting employment law is not what I'd call law abiding. Again, go ahead and read all about what the IRS has to say about your ID solution and what carpenters have to say about the 1099 loophole.

I mean, you can lay on the mehlman treatment as thick as you like but it's not going to minimize the facts of employment law. Calling a meat packing plant in Nebraska who just got busted for hiring illegals for 60% of their labor force isn't what the rest of us would call Law Abiding.

 

[Shogun]

Ummm, I never once disagreed with you about SHS. Go back and check if you don't believe me. And yes, I acknowledge the differences between the nature of "estimates" in each case. However, I also acknowledge the similarities. But please, explain to me again how our government doesn't regulate what people can legally ingest. That's almost as funny as Artardbaba insisting that Jesus would condemn welfare.

what the fuck does regulating what people can legally ingest have to do with a thread about illegal aliens and employment law?

Dude. just take your medicine and go sit by Allie.

 

[Ravi]

1. Hiring Employees


If you hire employees there is information that you need to secure for your records and forms that you must complete. You must verify that each new employee is legally eligible to work in the United States. Have the employees you hire fill out Form I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification (PDF) and Form W-4, Employee's Withholding Allowance Certificate (PDF). If your employees qualify and want to receive advanced earned income credit payments, they must give you a completed Form W-5, Earned Income Credit Advanced Payment Certificate (PDF).

IRS Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITINs) for Aliens
Do not accept an ITIN in place of an SSN for employee identification or for work. An ITIN is only available to resident and nonresident aliens who are not eligible for U.S. employment and need identification for other tax purposes. You can identify an ITIN because it is a 9-digit number, beginning with the number "9" and is formatted like an SSN (NNN-NN-NNN).

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=98164,00.html


You can take it up with the IRS.


2. Well no shit. Not every latino in America is an illegal alien. I've never suggested as much.. If you think this to be the case then quote me and I'll clear up your confusion. BUT, the ones who are here ILLEGALLY? yes, Im afraid every one of them have broken the law. And yes, I advocate hunting down every illegal who has spuriously disregarded our laws when deciding to circumvent legal citizenship.


So, crossing the border illegally is NOT breaking the law now? Using the 1099 in order to skirt employment requirements is NOT breaking a loophole?


ps, funny how the IRS addresses your ID solution, eh?

Yah, you are talking about EMPLOYEES while I am talking about 1099s. A world of difference.

As for two, why? I'm pretty sure it would cost waaaay more than whatever savings you might get from those that are actually avoiding property, sales and income tax...if they even exist.

You just aren't getting my point. Thousands of AMERICANS are subcontractors. You want to punish them and the businesses that employ them because you're worried about Mexicans.

 

[Ravi]

because skirting employment law is not what I'd call law abiding. Again, go ahead and read all about what the IRS has to say about your ID solution and what carpenters have to say about the 1099 loophole.

I mean, you can lay on the mehlman treatment as thick as you like but it's not going to minimize the facts of employment law. Calling a meat packing plant in Nebraska who just got busted for hiring illegals for 60% of their labor force isn't what the rest of us would call Law Abiding.

Sigh. You are being extremely dense.

I've got to run.

 

[Shogun]

Yah, you are talking about EMPLOYEES while I am talking about 1099s. A world of difference.


yea.. ONE qualifies for federal employment standards while the other is a cesspool of loopholes. And again, Hiring ILLEGALS via 1099 is NOT the accepted status quo. AND, if your business operates from illegal labor then spare me the boohoo routine because your business is NOT abiding the law.


As for two, why? I'm pretty sure it would cost waaaay more than whatever savings you might get from those that are actually avoiding property, sales and income tax...if they even exist.

YOU are pretty sure? oh well, THAT settles it.

You just aren't getting my point. Thousands of AMERICANS are subcontractors. You want to punish them and the businesses that employ them because you're worried about Mexicans.


Oh im getting your point. THOUSANDS of Americans who use illegal labor and enable a cycle of criminal activity are ripe to be put out of business.

I mean, fuck, Ravir.. Are you going to allow human traficking just because it is lucrative for some "business people"?

 

[Shogun]

Sigh. You are being extremely dense.

I've got to run.

I'm not being dense, I'm sidestepping the saccharine and political maneuvering. I'm no more interested in killing contract labor than I am skullfucking a homeless dude. BUT, you are trying to appeal to emotion and are assuming more than I am suggesting about my motivation in sealing the border and evicting illegals.

HAve a great evening and bring those tired mexicans a glass of Ice Cold Lemonade while they are out undermining American labor.

 

[Ravi]

Yah, you are talking about EMPLOYEES while I am talking about 1099s. A world of difference.


yea.. ONE qualifies for federal employment standards while the other is a cesspool of loopholes. And again, Hiring ILLEGALS via 1099 is NOT the accepted status quo. AND, if your business operates from illegal labor then spare me the boohoo routine because your business is NOT abiding the law.


As for two, why? I'm pretty sure it would cost waaaay more than whatever savings you might get from those that are actually avoiding property, sales and income tax...if they even exist.

YOU are pretty sure? oh well, THAT settles it.

You just aren't getting my point. Thousands of AMERICANS are subcontractors. You want to punish them and the businesses that employ them because you're worried about Mexicans.


Oh im getting your point. THOUSANDS of Americans who use illegal labor and enable a cycle of criminal activity are ripe to be put out of business.

I mean, fuck, Ravir.. Are you going to allow human traficking just because it is lucrative for some "business people"?

And again, I'm not talking about hiring illegals with 1099s.

Yes, I'm pretty sure of it. Which is why I asked you for a credible cost/benefit analysis. I don't know anymore than you do. I've been asking for credible information on this for a couple of years, and no one has given me any.

 

[William Joyce]

I'll just say I've never seen a credible cost/benefit analysis from anyone regarding immigration and keeping people out of the country.

Then you haven't been looking too hard. Immigration is a cost, not a benefit, to the American economy. Check VDare.

http://www.vdare.com/pb/071227_borjas.htm

Borjas of Harvard says: they cost more than they contribute.

 

[Ravi]

Then you haven't been looking too hard. Immigration is a cost, not a benefit, to the American economy. Check VDare.

No idea who that is. Feel free to post the relevant information.

 

[Ravi]

Okay, I see you edited your post.

The link was an opinion piece. Show me the actual, credible data.

 

[AllieBaba]

No, Ravir doesn't bestir herself to actually check anything out. She eschews legwork, and bases her posts on her faulty memory and the belief that ppl don't fully realize how clueless she really is.