Discussion in 'Education' started by Annie, Feb 3, 2007.
Not certain I agree with the sentiment of kudos. The educational system in Utah is already shaped to a greater extent by local religion and culture than perhaps anywhere else in the country. There will be within 10 years LDS schools on every block, in part subsidized by taxpayers of every faith (and those miscreants with no faith). That seems perilously close to complete erosion of the divide between state and religion our founding fathers saw fit to provide. As it stands now, Utah is a virtual theocracy, and outside Salt Lake City, and a few other pockets, a sometimes inhospitable place to live if one is not of the predominant faith. This will only lead to Utah being more outlandish.
Welcome Denverdoc! I'm for any program wihic will help provide alternatives for those that cannot get out of poor public schools, due to costs. I understand about SLC in particular, but that doesn't negate the possibilities for others.
Thanks for the welcome. If competition directly led to improvement of the public schools, then I would agree. The schools are a mess. This just seems like a dangerous place to try such an experiment as the teachers unions may well be right re their doom and gloom predictions--i.e it might indeed suck the lifeblood out of a system that is already strapped with the largest average class sizes in the country, etc. Its not about improving the schools so much as replacing them with ones more in alignment with the views of the LDS church.
Issue here is the sexism--I know my own daughters education in the SLC school system probably was not what it should have been with re to math and science--why bother your pretty little head over these matters, when making babies and home economics is what you really need, dear, that and a husband?
That's caricature but not a complete distortion. Now we have a prescription for sexism.
Heres the another view on this the people now have a "CHOICE" as to where they will send thier chlidren. If it happens to be in line with the LDS's or some other groupe it is their choice. I for one am a little sick of the public school system telling me as a parent they want my involvement with my children only when there is a problem but if I have a concern about their curriculum than I am just being pushy and a trouble maker. this is what a lot of parents are sick and tired of putting up with.
The public school system better start listening to the public that they teach before they find themselves working in private schools having to pay for their own retirement and not be guarenteed a job even when your a lousy teacher just because you have tenure....
I'm very fortunate, I live in an area with excellent private and public schools. I think the real concern however, is in areas where the schools are not performing at even a basic instructional level. In most cases, this is a function of property taxes.
Those schools that do accomplish high performance are usually the most responsive to parents, because the parents KNOW how much they are paying. Now that doesn't mean that each set of parents will be thrilled with a particular school district, no matter the scores. They may be very conservative and living in a very liberal area, where the school reflects the norm. Or vice versa, liberal parents in a very conservative area. Oftentimes, in this type of district, the teachers may feel there is no one to hear their side. The 'customer' is always right, no matter how problematic the child may be.
Which is another problem schools of all types run into problems with. Parents whose kids are angels, just ask them. Funny thing, some of the most 'angelic' according to their parents are on the road to becoming true hellions! Often times teachers are glad when they find the angels had a run in with Mr. Policeman, it tends to make the parents take a second look, before it's too late.
Back to the money issue. In our public grammar schools, the avg. cost per pupil is just above 10k. In the high schools, just above 13.5k. They reconfigured those this year, with a bit more going to the grammar schools. Needless to say, our taxes are high.
Now my last child graduated hs 3 years ago. That year I spent over $500 in books and fees. Another $300 for sports related costs to the school. Oh yea, another $75 on gifts for coaches. Then there was the 'friends of _________', where we ponied up another $75 for school wish lists stuff. Any 'boosters' for sports was I think $25. Oh, but admission to events needed season pass, another $50.
I guess that's the sort of stuff that accounts in large measure for the differences between wealthy districts and non-wealthy. At the same time, we do live in an area where people value highly education-which is why they live in the district. Before any games, parents would host a team dinner, again no problem serving/catering for 25 teen boys. LOL! Parents got hotel rooms when the kids went to state, I don't think that's too likely for more indigent parents.
I know this is rambling, but bottom line is that there are alot of factors that go into measuring good and bad schools. Parental involvement tends to be high in successful ones, so what would the scores be like if the school had less $$? My guess, not much.
Utah a theocracy? you obviously havent lived there.
Besides, the Church wont open schools when alternatives exist already.
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