Krugman's big argument about government jobs:

[Avorysuds]

Because republican cuts to police

You are in fact the most stupid person on the internet.

 

[Avorysuds]

I honestly think America is due a revolution/civil war. There are simply too many people that want what is not theirs to a point where it has caused a recession only comparable to the Great Depression.

Debt will be probably be the cause of the separation. One side will try and appeal to “the poor,” and by poor I mean the dependent on Government, the other side will simply resist giving up what they built over a lifetime. As the separation occurs it’s possible things will get violent.

I say all this but what people should realize is that we are already mostly done with the first step of one side being created by dependency and the other is currently resisting losing everything.

 

[Widdekind]

what are military jobs?
what are police jobs?
what are teaching jobs?
what are firefighter jobs?
What are postal jobs?
What are road maintainence jobs?

None of those are jobs that add to the bottom line.

Government jobs do not add to net tax revenue nor do they add to net GDP.

All the money spent by government employees belonged first to the private sector and was then taken from the private sector and given to public employees.

The net result in taxes and GDP would be the same if the private sector kept and spent saved or invested all that money.

In short government jobs do nothing for the economy.

GDP would be more without the government jobs since

1) a government worker makes twice the pay and produces about half the GDP as a real private sector worker

2) a government worker often does make work that does not really need to be done and is not innovative so does not help GDP grow, at best it churns the economy at the current level.

...some government jobs are necessary, but generally they pay double what private sector jobs pay, and are not innovative just bureaucratic, so should always be reduced to the the maximum extent possible.

Taxes to Government are "Publicly coerced compulsory savings". If the private sector is saving at a high rate, then Taxes might not be burdensome -- the money Taxed to Government would have been saved, and would not have been spent, anyway. But Taxes can "crowd out" private spending, or private saving / lending / (re-)spending. Then Taxes eliminate jobs & growth from the private sector.

Policing & Defense are examples of "Public goods", from which everybody benefits, if anybody provides. So Taxes for "Public goods" represent "everybody chips in", since everybody gains. Taxes for "Public goods" are legitimate, and represent a collective Public agreement, according to which everybody shares in the costs, since otherwise everybody would want to be a "social loafer".

But, Taxes for transfer-payments do not represent sharing of costs -- instead, one person pays, whilst another collects. In analogy, if Police & Defense were run on transfer-payments, then the west coast would pay for everything; but all of the Police stations & Air-defense bases would be on the east coast. If the words "everybody shares [in a collective cost]" cannot apply, then the Tax is, essentially, a "Robin Hood takes from Peter to pay Paul".

Police, Defense, large-scale Infrastructure (e.g. highways) are "Public goods", from which everybody benefits, so everybody should pay, Taxes. Conversely, Doles are zero-efficiency transfer-payments, more like a mugging, than any semblance of shared Public collective action.

"Athenians voting themselves their own Public treasury" infamously destroyed the Athenian republican democracy, as people spent more time playing for popularity (to forge factions capable of seizing the treasury), than for productive labors.

 

[Mad Scientist]

what are military jobs?

what are police jobs?


what are teaching jobs?

what are firefighter jobs?

What are postal jobs?


What are road maintainence jobs?

I think the Gov't should employ EVERYONE. That way the Unemployment Rate will be ZERO and the Gov't could collect taxes on ALL THOSE WORKERS! Just think about that!

 

[KissMy]

what are military jobs?

what are police jobs?


what are teaching jobs?

what are firefighter jobs?

What are postal jobs?


What are road maintainence jobs?

I think the Gov't should employ EVERYONE. That way the Unemployment Rate will be ZERO and the Gov't could collect taxes on ALL THOSE WORKERS! Just think about that!

Exactly - Society works best & advances for everyone if everyone who is willing & able has a job. Failure to employ everyone is failure of economic system & government. However we don't need more police, fire fighters & teachers. We need more infrastructure & energy workers. The water, sewer, gas, electric, bridges, dams, waterways & flood control systems need to be rebuilt. Now when workers can be hired cheaply is the time to do that.

 

[Sallow]

what are military jobs?

what are police jobs?


what are teaching jobs?

what are firefighter jobs?

What are postal jobs?


What are road maintainence jobs?

None of those are jobs that add to the bottom line.

Government jobs do not add to net tax revenue nor do they add to net GDP.

All the money spent by government employees belonged first to the private sector and was then taken from the private sector and given to public employees.

The net result in taxes and GDP would be the same if the private sector kept and spent saved or invested all that money.

In short government jobs do nothing for the economy.

Ridiculous.

With out infrastructure, safety and education business would not exist.

You people are nuts.

 

[Rozman]

Libs love to throw out hiring schoolteachers,firemen,police every time they
want to do a payback to union/democrat voters...

They freak when conservatives rail against it...
Will it make much of a difference hiring more teachers if there aren't more schools.
What are going to do put two teachers in every classroom.
Same with firemen and police...
Are we going to add a third officer to every patrol car.

This argument that to improve the economy we need to hire more teachers,firemen and police is ridiculous.

 

[Sallow]

Libs love to throw out hiring schoolteachers,firemen,police every time they
want to do a payback to union/democrat voters...

They freak when conservatives rail against it...
Will it make much of a difference hiring more teachers if there aren't more schools.
What are going to do put two teachers in every classroom.
Same with firemen and police...
Are we going to add a third officer to every patrol car.

This argument that to improve the economy we need to hire more teachers,firemen and police is ridiculous.

Except..that it isn't.

Government employees are at an all time low..and demand is at an all time high.

Add in..that, while the private sector has been hiring at a good clip, it's not enough to absorb the amount of people actively looking for work.

So while we have crumbling infrastructure, crowded classrooms, crime on the rise and more demand for firefighters as evidenced by the amount of wild fires breaking out across the country..and able bodied people available and willing to fill those jobs..conservatives balk.

Pathetic really.

 

[Papageorgio]

Because republican cuts to police

I used to live in the city and my home was burglarized twice.

The fucking cops didn't stop the crime and never caught the guys. Seems to me we could cut a few doughnut eaters from the payroll and not even notice.

Then your house will be robbed 20 times instead of 2.

In our city, if you have a break in, you call the police, they do not come out, they do not investigate, they give you a case number and that is the end of the story. How does this lessen the amount of break ins?

 

[edthecynic]

I used to live in the city and my home was burglarized twice.

The fucking cops didn't stop the crime and never caught the guys. Seems to me we could cut a few doughnut eaters from the payroll and not even notice.

Then your house will be robbed 20 times instead of 2.

In our city, if you have a break in, you call the police, they do not come out, they do not investigate, they give you a case number and that is the end of the story. How does this lessen the amount of break ins?

My car was broken into several years ago. I reported it immediately. The police came took my report, etc. About a year later I got a call, they caught the guy and needed me to appear at his trial. I went, he was convicted and after they no longer needed my stuff for evidence, I got it back.

I guess you just don't live right!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

..and able bodied people available and willing to fill those jobs..conservatives balk.

Pathetic really.

what is pathetic and immoral and liberal is adding to our grandchildren's debt with idiotic make-work jobs that naturally delay or prevent recovery just as the New Deal Great Depression did.

 

[Widdekind]

what ... liberal is adding to our grandchildren's debt

some debt can generate high rates of return. Businesses borrow for private Investement expenditures (machines, factories) all the time. Governments borrowing for Public Investments (Infrastructure for transportation & energy) can be equally profitable.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

what ... liberal is adding to our grandchildren's debt

some debt can generate high rates of return. .

more proof a liberal is perfectly slow.

Private borrowing is done in small amounts relating to small situations about which the participants are higly expert. If they are mistaken they pay the ultimate price while those nearby learn from the mistake.

Liberal debt is national monopoly debt undertaken by by idiot bureaucrats, far from the situation, with other peoples money, there are no consequesnces for failure, and the whole country can be economicially depressed as a result of failure.

Show me one intellectual conservative who has anything but pure contemp for the pure ignorance of liberalism. A liberal has no more brains than a Nazi suppporting Hitler in 1932. The difference is that the perfect ignorance of liberalism is constrained here by the gentle Republican libertarian blessings of America.

 

[Widdekind]

Private borrowing is done in small amounts relating to small situations about which the participants are higly expert. If they are mistaken they pay the ultimate price while those nearby learn from the mistake.

Liberal debt is national monopoly debt undertaken by by idiot bureaucrats, far from the situation, with other peoples money, there are no consequesnces for failure, and the whole country can be economicially depressed as a result of failure.

if so, then "in practice" (bad bureaucracy) is limiting what could be done "in theory" (effective Fiscal stimulus). Bad bureaucrats borrowing badly, for bad Public investments, would waste everybody's (future) money. Where are the wise & well-trained "experts" who can lead us out of economic peril ? If Fiscal stimulus is necessary, then before the "Public enterprise" borrows big, the Public -- as "shareholders" in the "Public enterprise" -- should be informed of, and ratify, the plan.

 

[Skull Pilot]

what are military jobs?

what are police jobs?


what are teaching jobs?

what are firefighter jobs?

What are postal jobs?


What are road maintainence jobs?

None of those are jobs that add to the bottom line.

Government jobs do not add to net tax revenue nor do they add to net GDP.

All the money spent by government employees belonged first to the private sector and was then taken from the private sector and given to public employees.

The net result in taxes and GDP would be the same if the private sector kept and spent saved or invested all that money.

In short government jobs do nothing for the economy.

Ridiculous.

With out infrastructure, safety and education business would not exist.

You people are nuts.

What does infrastructure have to do with government employees?

Roads and bridges can be built by private sector businesses..

And safety really? Cops don't do anything to prevent crime. All they do is react to a crime that has already been committed. If you want to protect your business, your property or yourself then you better be proactive and not depend on your local doughnut eaters.

And people can be educated in places other than a government run school.

 

[editec]

If real work gets done and increases real worth in the process, then the money is well spent.

Doesn't matter who spends it as long as the money goes into circulation and the end result is something of worth.

Today millions of Americans will take advanatage of something of real worth that was created in large part by some government project or the other.

 

[The Rabbi]

If real work gets done and increases real worth in the process, then the money is well spent.

Doesn't matter who spends it as long as the money goes into circulation and the end result is something of worth.

Today millions of Americans will take advanatage of something of real worth that was created in large part by some government project or the other.

Government doesnt do real worth. The last real worth was the highway project, over 50 years ago.
"Infrastructure spending"is a boondoggle.

 

[rightwinger]

what are military jobs?

what are police jobs?


what are teaching jobs?

what are firefighter jobs?

What are postal jobs?


What are road maintainence jobs?

None of those are jobs that add to the bottom line.

Government jobs do not add to net tax revenue nor do they add to net GDP.

All the money spent by government employees belonged first to the private sector and was then taken from the private sector and given to public employees.

The net result in taxes and GDP would be the same if the private sector kept and spent saved or invested all that money.

In short government jobs do nothing for the economy.

There are millions of defense industry jobs that add to the economy. The post office creates a product.

 

[The Rabbi]

what are military jobs?

what are police jobs?


what are teaching jobs?

what are firefighter jobs?

What are postal jobs?


What are road maintainence jobs?

None of those are jobs that add to the bottom line.

Government jobs do not add to net tax revenue nor do they add to net GDP.

All the money spent by government employees belonged first to the private sector and was then taken from the private sector and given to public employees.

The net result in taxes and GDP would be the same if the private sector kept and spent saved or invested all that money.

In short government jobs do nothing for the economy.

There are millions of defense industry jobs that add to the economy. The post office creates a product.

It is questionable whether they do or not. They exist because we need defense.
The post office does not create product, it sells service. And it does a really shitty job doing that.

 

[rightwinger]

None of those are jobs that add to the bottom line.

Government jobs do not add to net tax revenue nor do they add to net GDP.

All the money spent by government employees belonged first to the private sector and was then taken from the private sector and given to public employees.

The net result in taxes and GDP would be the same if the private sector kept and spent saved or invested all that money.

In short government jobs do nothing for the economy.

There are millions of defense industry jobs that add to the economy. The post office creates a product.

It is questionable whether they do or not. They exist because we need defense.
The post office does not create product, it sells service. And it does a really shitty job doing that.

I can send a letter from my front door to my brothers front door in California for 45 cents

Can't get a better bargain than that. I would not deliver a letter across town for 45 cents