Krugman says stimulus, and Keynesian economics, is a complete failure

[Quantum Windbag]

Ah..so you are willfully misrepresenting what Krugman is writing about.

Hmm..what is that called?

Oh yeah.

Lying.

It is actually called creative interpretation.

I posted everything he said, including two contradictory statements about a specific part of the stimulus. If I had to lie I would just post a link and claim it meant he is a racist.

 

[uscitizen]

The guy is about as quick to realize this as he was to realize things were falling apart.
He may finally be getting a clue as to why things are in the mess they are in.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

His complaint all along is that we haven't stimulated the economy enough.

Your title is a lie.

Did you read the links I provided?

He specifically claimed that the stimulus money directed to the states was a complete waste, even though he said two years ago that it would be most effective. If you read past the title of the thread you might actually learn something.

 

[Moonglow]

Krugman: We needed $900B ....$2 trillion... $3 Trillion...no! 8 Trillion in Stimulus. YES! $18 Trillion

Face it, It failed during the FDR Depression and it Failed Finally and Permanently Under Obama.

Oh, where was Clinton's Big Deficit Stimulus?

Well except FDR didn't fail. Unless of course you consider the rise of a real American Middle Class a failure.

The United States did not have a big middle class (or any really) prior to FDR.

The United States was pretty much a wretched place to live prior to FDR for all except the extremely wealthy.

FDR was the Biggest Failure until Obama. How anyone calls 15% unemployment over 8 years good for the Middle Class can only be ascribed to some brain washing.

Thank Hitler for invading France for ending the FDR Depression

I believe invading Poland was the beginning of WWII

 

[Moonglow]

stimulus programs worked for other countries because the took care of the underlying problem, but here in the good ol' US of A it's effect was minimal because of the lack of cooperatin of the parties and lobbyists.

 

[rdean]

Nearly half the stimulus was "TAX CUTS". That leaves a stimulus packages that was about 0.05% the size of the economy. It's like trying to stop a raging elephant with a pea shooter. We were losing about 800,000 jobs a month from Republican policies, but we've had positive job growth for about the last 15 months.

If either Republican policy actually worked, the economy would be great. After all the Bush tax cuts, the extensions, paying the lowest taxes in decades, subsidies for oil companies, the 12 largest US companies paying zero in taxes and getting billions in free government money. All the Republican policies have been enacted and what do we have? No jobs. Maybe they need to get a "third" policy. One that actually works.

 

[kiwiman127]

The United States was pretty much a wretched place to live prior to FDR for all except the extremely wealthy.

This is all relative, and a matter of opinion. When you account for how inflation has destroyed the middle class's purchasing power over the years, one could just as easily say the middle class is a wretched class to be in.

Today's middle class busts its ass at underpaying jobs, if they have one at all, to HOPEFULLY live better than paycheck to paycheck.

It would be more accurate to say flat wages in Real Dollars killed the Middle Class's purchasing power.

If you recall your history, the Carter years had the highest inflation rates in recent history, yet wages increased in Real Dollars. Please note that wages have gone down in constant dollars. Yet the US Economy has increased in Real Dollars,

Wages and Benefits: Real Wages (1976-2004)

Average Weekly Earnings (in 1982 constant dollars)
For all private nonfarm workers

1976 309.61 1.46%
1977 310.99 0.45%
1978 310.41 -0.19%
1979 298.87 -3.72%
1980 281.27 -5.89%
1981 277.35 -1.39%
1982 272.74 -1.66%
1983 277.50 1.75%
1984 279.22 0.62%
1985 276.23 -1.07%
1986 276.11 -0.04%
1987 272.88 -1.17%
1988 270.32 -0.94%
1989 267.27 -1.13%
1990 262.43 -1.81%
1991 258.34 -1.56%
1992 257.95 -0.15%
1993 258.12 0.07%
1994 259.97 0.72%
1995 258.43 -0.59%
1996 259.58 0.44%
1997 265.22 2.17%
1998 271.87 2.51%
1999 274.64 1.02%
2000 275.62 0.36%
2001 275.38 -0.09%
2002 278.91 1.28%
2003 279.94 0.37%
2004 277.57 -0.84%

Source: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

http://www.workinglife.org/wiki/Wages+and+Benefits:+Real+Wages+(1964-2004)
Wouldn't be nice if US workers were rewarded for their hard work, like they used to be. But as the unions were weakened, the wages became flat despite high worker productivity.

 

[rdean]

The United States was pretty much a wretched place to live prior to FDR for all except the extremely wealthy.

This is all relative, and a matter of opinion. When you account for how inflation has destroyed the middle class's purchasing power over the years, one could just as easily say the middle class is a wretched class to be in.

Today's middle class busts its ass at underpaying jobs, if they have one at all, to HOPEFULLY live better than paycheck to paycheck.

It would be more accurate to say flat wages in Real Dollars killed the Middle Class's purchasing power.

If you recall your history, the Carter years had the highest inflation rates in recent history, yet wages increased in Real Dollars. Please note that wages have gone down in constant dollars. Yet the US Economy has increased in Real Dollars,

Wages and Benefits: Real Wages (1976-2004)

Average Weekly Earnings (in 1982 constant dollars)
For all private nonfarm workers

1976 309.61 1.46%
1977 310.99 0.45%
1978 310.41 -0.19%
1979 298.87 -3.72%
1980 281.27 -5.89%
1981 277.35 -1.39%
1982 272.74 -1.66%
1983 277.50 1.75%
1984 279.22 0.62%
1985 276.23 -1.07%
1986 276.11 -0.04%
1987 272.88 -1.17%
1988 270.32 -0.94%
1989 267.27 -1.13%
1990 262.43 -1.81%
1991 258.34 -1.56%
1992 257.95 -0.15%
1993 258.12 0.07%
1994 259.97 0.72%
1995 258.43 -0.59%
1996 259.58 0.44%
1997 265.22 2.17%
1998 271.87 2.51%
1999 274.64 1.02%
2000 275.62 0.36%
2001 275.38 -0.09%
2002 278.91 1.28%
2003 279.94 0.37%
2004 277.57 -0.84%

Source: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

http://www.workinglife.org/wiki/Wages+and+Benefits:+Real+Wages+(1964-2004)
Wouldn't be nice if US workers were rewarded for their hard work, like they used to be. But as the unions were weakened, the wages became flat despite high worker productivity.

Yea, but look how much CEO's make. They're the ones Republicans really care about. So both their policies have been a wild success.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Krugman: We needed $900B ....$2 trillion... $3 Trillion...no! 8 Trillion in Stimulus. YES! $18 Trillion

Face it, It failed during the FDR Depression and it Failed Finally and Permanently Under Obama.

Oh, where was Clinton's Big Deficit Stimulus?

Well except FDR didn't fail. Unless of course you consider the rise of a real American Middle Class a failure.

The United States did not have a big middle class (or any really) prior to FDR.

The United States was pretty much a wretched place to live prior to FDR for all except the extremely wealthy.

FDR didn't fail?

Despite his massive spending and the WPA unemployment averaged 13% over his term, and there were 18 million fewer jobs at the end of his term than there were when he was elected. No wonder you think Obama is a success.

 

[Moonglow]

Krugman: We needed $900B ....$2 trillion... $3 Trillion...no! 8 Trillion in Stimulus. YES! $18 Trillion

Face it, It failed during the FDR Depression and it Failed Finally and Permanently Under Obama.

Oh, where was Clinton's Big Deficit Stimulus?

Well except FDR didn't fail. Unless of course you consider the rise of a real American Middle Class a failure.

The United States did not have a big middle class (or any really) prior to FDR.

The United States was pretty much a wretched place to live prior to FDR for all except the extremely wealthy.

FDR didn't fail?

Despite his massive spending and the WPA unemployment averaged 13% over his term, and there were 18 million fewer jobs at the end of his term than there were when he was elected. No wonder you think Obama is a success.

FDR must have had some success, he was elected 4 times. I doubt you could have done any better. The only societies that were flourishing was the facists,the nazis and the communists. Capitalism was near dead.

 

[psikeyhackr]

Well except FDR didn't fail. Unless of course you consider the rise of a real American Middle Class a failure.

FDR didn't fail?

Despite his massive spending and the WPA unemployment averaged 13% over his term, and there were 18 million fewer jobs at the end of his term than there were when he was elected. No wonder you think Obama is a success.

There are Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics.

http://www.angrybearblog.com/2008/11/unemployment-rate-under-reagan-vs-fdr.html

psik

 

[Flopper]

Krugman basically wants to spend 2 or 3 times as much as the original stimulus bill, maybe 2-3 trillion more which would entirely be borrowed (debt). I appreciate that he wants to improve unemployment and kickstart the economy, but I believe if the business climate remains as is then however much stimulus you spend will be temporary. You fix roads and bridges, great; we get jobs for awhile but if we don't have an enironment that encourages growth then it'll be just another cash for clunkers except much bigger. We cannot afford to blow another two or three trillion and end up where we are now but with more debt.

Krugman wasn't the only economist that said the spending was not enough. I remember when they were creating the jobs bill that turned out to be 700+ billion. Obama's chief economics advisory was recommending 1.2 to 1.5 trillion. Supposedly Reid told Obama, it had to be less than a trillion or it would never pass the Senate.

 

[Annie]

Ah..so you are willfully misrepresenting what Krugman is writing about.

Hmm..what is that called?

Oh yeah.

Lying.

No. He is backing up, but not wanting to say it.

 

[Patrick2]

FDR's only achievement was allowing his generals to win WWII. FDR's economic policies took what probably would have been just a bad recession and created a depression - same thing BO's doing now.

 

[Ravi]

FDR's leadership made America a super power.

It grates on the nerves of Republicans to this day. Which is probably why they are actively trying to destroy our economy.

 

[editec]

I would love to say that Keynesian economics is dead, but some idiots will never learn. That list obviously includes Paul Krugman.

Your list of idots must also included editec, QW.

Krug is exactly right.

And FWIW you are exactly wrong.

I have yet to see a Kenysian response even attempted by this administration.

Of course, the fact that Congress must get on board with an serious recovery plan, meanwhile Congress can't even get out of its own way on the issue of the debt limit suggests that it not going to happen.

This economy is the economy that the Repubican clans want to have, that's quite obvious.

 

[CitizenPained]

A bank bailout isn't Kenysian if it didn't work . A Kenysian economist would theorize that the economy would be most likely to improve (eg, jobs) only if all other spending factors remained the same.

Or, any improvement in output - even if it's small - means government spending is working.

Still, you can't just twink and fiddle with the economy every few months and say you're doing a good job. Employment, prices, and spending are slow to improve once they've fallen -- this shit doesn't happen overnight.

also, the economy would be exactly the same if McCain had won.

 

[Sallow]

Krugman: We needed $900B ....$2 trillion... $3 Trillion...no! 8 Trillion in Stimulus. YES! $18 Trillion

Face it, It failed during the FDR Depression and it Failed Finally and Permanently Under Obama.

Oh, where was Clinton's Big Deficit Stimulus?

The United States was pretty much a wretched place to live prior to FDR for all except the extremely wealthy.

Clearly you don't know dick about anything

No.

Clearly you don't.

Yellow Fever Epidemic of 1793 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Typhoid fever - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1775
The 1832 Cholera Epidemic in New York State:
Great Chicago Fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Battle of Matewan
Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
IHS Child Slave Labor News :: The History of Child Labor During the American Industrial Revolution
Great Depression - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Foxfyre]

I would love to say that Keynesian economics is dead, but some idiots will never learn. That list obviously includes Paul Krugman.

Your list of idots must also included editec, QW.

Krug is exactly right.

And FWIW you are exactly wrong.

I have yet to see a Kenysian response even attempted by this administration.

Of course, the fact that Congress must get on board with an serious recovery plan, meanwhile Congress can't even get out of its own way on the issue of the debt limit suggests that it not going to happen.

This economy is the economy that the Repubican clans want to have, that's quite obvious.

There is no other way to describe Obama's stimulus package than Keynesian. Even Krugman described it that way in his own detailed quotations that I have posted and linked. You are correct that we have not had a consistent Keynesian plan though the closest to it was the second half of the Clinton administration when taxes were cut and spending was slowed down to the point we had almost a balanced budget for a short while.

Investopedia explains Keynesian Economics

A supporter of Keynesian economics believes it is the government's job to smooth out the bumps in business cycles. Intervention would come in the form of government spending and tax breaks in order to stimulate the economy, and government spending cuts and tax hikes in good times, in order to curb inflation

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The United States was pretty much a wretched place to live prior to FDR for all except the extremely wealthy.

Clearly you don't know dick about anything

No.

Clearly you don't.

Yellow Fever Epidemic of 1793 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Typhoid fever - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1775
The 1832 Cholera Epidemic in New York State:
Great Chicago Fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Battle of Matewan
Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
IHS Child Slave Labor News :: The History of Child Labor During the American Industrial Revolution
Great Depression - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well I didn't ask you to provide evidence of the absurdity of your point, but thanks for backing me up