Koch: "I smell Munich in the air..."

[Baruch Menachem]

There is no way the Jewish vote in this country will in large measure go for Republicans.

No one's asserted anything like that.

see, that's the thing... repubs are silly. they actually have natural constituencies in jews and blacks. blacks are, by and large, very conservative. they're church-going and would be amenable (most, not all) to a conservative message (same as they voted for prop 8 in droves).... but the repubs have a horrible record on social justice issues and racial undertones permeate their message.

jews on the other hand, would be a natural constitency for the repubs because of their greater support for israel. but they don't vote repub in the main for the same reason... .the repubs terrible record on social justice issues and the fact that they've allowed a christian right agenda to permeate the party platform.

silly to turn one's back on one's natural constituents.

where's al d'amato when you need him?

I'm guessing the Republican position of condemning Darwin and embracing social darwinism manages to offend all portions of the Jewish political spectrum. I see no way out of it, so the Jewish vote can just be written off. Republicanism is very big with evangelical Christianity. There really can be no separation here. Evangelicalism is the oxygen along with the social ideals as hydrogen that make up the Republican view of the world. One would not say that tossing the oxygen would make for a better quality of water. Won't work.



Support for Israel is totally divorced from feeling about Judaism as a religion. When it comes to catfights between cousins, like between Taiwan and China, North and South Korea, etc etc. we should just support the more democratic state. Japanese and Korean views on religious matters don't interfere with how we treat them, Israel should get the same treatment.


As to the black vote.... to much of the Republican attitude is "Its your own damn fault" if you find yourself on the bottom. The Jews made it, the Japanese made it (with handicaps worse than those suffered by either Jews or Blacks here) so what's your problem? That attitude won't work well in garnishing votes either.

Republicans might garner a bit of the black vote if they made educational improvement their main social agenda item. Get schools that are responsive to the needs of the parents and the students rather than to the administrator and the unions, and get an education system that gives students the tools they need to succeed. it is the area where Republicans can get the most gains, where their message might have the most resonance, and the constituency might be the most grateful.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

once the repubs went hard loony right

Please elucidate, when exactly did this happen?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

[
I'm guessing the Republican position of condemning Darwin and embracing social darwinism manages to offend all portions of the Jewish political spectrum.

Again: NO ONE has said, asserted, or even hinted that the bulk of the Jewish population will vote repug.

I have flat-out said instead, that they probably will shy away from Obama. Just like Ed Koch has. This means a STIFF challenge for Obama just to garner his party's nomination in 2012. Says nothing at all about who will win the WH in 2012. And says nothing at all about repugs.

This is about the Democrats. Not about the repugs.

 

[WillowTree]

see, that's the thing... repubs are silly. they actually have natural constituencies in jews and blacks. blacks are, by and large, very conservative. they're church-going and would be amenable (most, not all) to a conservative message (same as they voted for prop 8 in droves).... but the repubs have a horrible record on social justice issues and racial undertones permeate their message.

jews on the other hand, would be a natural constitency for the repubs because of their greater support for israel. but they don't vote repub in the main for the same reason... .the repubs terrible record on social justice issues and the fact that they've allowed a christian right agenda to permeate the party platformthat sounds like a bad case of cutting off your nose to spite your face. The Jewish population in America has made a horrible mistake this time I fear.. Mark Levine asked that very question today. Why do Jewish people vote for the anti semitic democrats?

silly to turn one's back on one's natural constituents.even sillier to turn to your natural enemy. innit?



.

where's al d'amato when you need him?

.

interesting assertion. but jews know that a moderate society is safest. once the repubs went hard loony right, they weren't safe any more.

and we know that any party that has someone who talks about the 'pro-america parts of the country'

and tries to impose a christian right agenda on us

isn't something we can support. (other than a minority of loonier neo-cons)

okay,, I can't change your mind, you want to believe that Christians are out to harm you and that the right isn't "safe" well, all I can say is good luck to ya..

 

[jillian]

.

interesting assertion. but jews know that a moderate society is safest. once the repubs went hard loony right, they weren't safe any more.

and we know that any party that has someone who talks about the 'pro-america parts of the country'

and tries to impose a christian right agenda on us

isn't something we can support. (other than a minority of loonier neo-cons)

okay,, I can't change your mind, you want to believe that Christians are out to harm you and that the right isn't "safe" well, all I can say is good luck to ya..

where did i say that?

christians are wonderful friends to jews and israel most of the time.

but a U.S. that forgets its separation of church and state is very bad for us.

 

[WillowTree]

i don't believe we can sustain 200 billion dollar wars of choice

This shows me you really don't understand what's going on.

We are STILL fighting WW2. This is the Islamic phase of it. I'll explain.

Much unfinished business was left over after WW2. Therefore we had Korea (also still on BTW), Vietnam and the cold war. But what people are failing to recognize is, the creation of the state of Israel IS the reason we have Islamic terrorism. It's the ONLY reason.

These IslamoNazis aren't bent on world domination -- they merely want to eradicate the Jews!

They attack us because we SUPPORT Israel and always have! That's what's going on! So if you want to call it a "war of choice" then the ones making the choice are the radical Islamic Jihadis, not us.

How does a Jewish person get the "blame the victim" mentality?

You don't understand that until either Israel or the radical Islamists are eradicated, this war will continue. Obama doesn't understand that either. He believes he is dealing with reasonable, rational people, just like Chamberlain did when he dealt with Hitler.

Therefore Obama believes that if we just give the back of our hand to Israel, all will be good. But it will NOT be good -- it's a signal to the terrorist world that the time to strike Israel is NOW.

THAT is what Ed is trying to tell you.

yes he does understand it. What's not to understand.. Israel is a tiny little country in the middle of the Islamic world. Iran has sworn to eradicate Israel. What part of that doesn't obie messiah get?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

i don't believe we can sustain 200 billion dollar wars of choice

This shows me you really don't understand what's going on.

We are STILL fighting WW2. This is the Islamic phase of it. I'll explain.

Much unfinished business was left over after WW2. Therefore we had Korea (also still on BTW), Vietnam and the cold war. But what people are failing to recognize is, the creation of the state of Israel IS the reason we have Islamic terrorism. It's the ONLY reason.

These IslamoNazis aren't bent on world domination -- they merely want to eradicate the Jews!

They attack us because we SUPPORT Israel and always have! That's what's going on! So if you want to call it a "war of choice" then the ones making the choice are the radical Islamic Jihadis, not us.

How does a Jewish person get the "blame the victim" mentality?

You don't understand that until either Israel or the radical Islamists are eradicated, this war will continue. Obama doesn't understand that either. He believes he is dealing with reasonable, rational people, just like Chamberlain did when he dealt with Hitler.

Therefore Obama believes that if we just give the back of our hand to Israel, all will be good. But it will NOT be good -- it's a signal to the terrorist world that the time to strike Israel is NOW.

THAT is what Ed is trying to tell you.

yes he does understand it. What's not to understand.. Israel is a tiny little country in the middle of the Islamic world. Iran has sworn to eradicate Israel. What part of that doesn't obie messiah get?

You believe Obama is anti-Semite. I do not.

That's the difference.

I believe he's simply ignorant of the situation, and acting accordingly. Just like Chamberlain.

 

[WillowTree]

interesting assertion. but jews know that a moderate society is safest. once the repubs went hard loony right, they weren't safe any more.

and we know that any party that has someone who talks about the 'pro-america parts of the country'

and tries to impose a christian right agenda on us

isn't something we can support. (other than a minority of loonier neo-cons)

okay,, I can't change your mind, you want to believe that Christians are out to harm you and that the right isn't "safe" well, all I can say is good luck to ya..

where did i say that?

christians are wonderful friends to jews and israel most of the time.

but a U.S. that forgets its separation of church and state is very bad for us.

you said it right here Jillian.

"once the repubs went hard loony right, they weren't safe any more.

and we know that any party that has someone who talks about the 'pro-america parts of the country'

and tries to impose a christian right agenda on us

isn't something we can support. (other than a minority of loonier neo-cons)"

you don't seem to understand the Republicans champion Israel and the democrats don't.. now I know Israel isn't the US, but you voted for someone and a party who want to throw in the towel. they place the blame on Israel. Israel is the aggressor..

 

[WillowTree]

This shows me you really don't understand what's going on.

We are STILL fighting WW2. This is the Islamic phase of it. I'll explain.

Much unfinished business was left over after WW2. Therefore we had Korea (also still on BTW), Vietnam and the cold war. But what people are failing to recognize is, the creation of the state of Israel IS the reason we have Islamic terrorism. It's the ONLY reason.

These IslamoNazis aren't bent on world domination -- they merely want to eradicate the Jews!

They attack us because we SUPPORT Israel and always have! That's what's going on! So if you want to call it a "war of choice" then the ones making the choice are the radical Islamic Jihadis, not us.

How does a Jewish person get the "blame the victim" mentality?

You don't understand that until either Israel or the radical Islamists are eradicated, this war will continue. Obama doesn't understand that either. He believes he is dealing with reasonable, rational people, just like Chamberlain did when he dealt with Hitler.

Therefore Obama believes that if we just give the back of our hand to Israel, all will be good. But it will NOT be good -- it's a signal to the terrorist world that the time to strike Israel is NOW.

THAT is what Ed is trying to tell you.

yes he does understand it. What's not to understand.. Israel is a tiny little country in the middle of the Islamic world. Iran has sworn to eradicate Israel. What part of that doesn't obie messiah get?

You believe Obama is anti-Semite. I do not.

That's the difference.

I believe he's simply ignorant of the situation, and acting accordingly. Just like Chamberlain.

no, I disagree, he is not ignorant, he chooses the road of the far left. They will happily leave Israel to her own devices. The NYT. will be an interesting read tomorrow.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

yes he does understand it. What's not to understand.. Israel is a tiny little country in the middle of the Islamic world. Iran has sworn to eradicate Israel. What part of that doesn't obie messiah get?

You believe Obama is anti-Semite. I do not.

That's the difference.

I believe he's simply ignorant of the situation, and acting accordingly. Just like Chamberlain.

no, I disagree, he is not ignorant, he chooses the road of the far left. They will happily leave Israel to her own devices. The NYT. will be an interesting read tomorrow.

He IS ignorant about this war, the reasons for it and what it will take to end it.

He believes the Jihadis will respond to appeasement. He operates from a bad conclusion.

Just like Chamberlain.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

[
I'm guessing the Republican position of condemning Darwin and embracing social darwinism manages to offend all portions of the Jewish political spectrum.

Again: NO ONE has said, asserted, or even hinted that the bulk of the Jewish population will vote repug.

I have flat-out said instead, that they probably will shy away from Obama. Just like Ed Koch has. This means a STIFF challenge for Obama just to garner his party's nomination in 2012. Says nothing at all about who will win the WH in 2012. And says nothing at all about repugs.

This is about the Democrats. Not about the repugs.

I don't see any challenge to 0bama. From what I have seen, very few Democrats are having buyers remorse about him. I have seen none on this board.

Some Republicans are fantasizing about gaining a huge number of seats. Their lips to Gds ear. (One guy is having wet dreams of 100 seats, which would not break my heart at all. ) Unless 0bama looses more than 40 seats, I don't see any real challenge too him. I have to admit that I don't see the Republicans gaining that many seats.

So unless someone other than Hillary challenges him (I can't see her candidacy going anywhere at all after the last fiasco) he is set for 2012. And given Jewish attitudes about domestic politics, even though from my perspective he is as good for the Jews as Ernst Rhoem, he will still get over 90% of the Jewish vote.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

[
I'm guessing the Republican position of condemning Darwin and embracing social darwinism manages to offend all portions of the Jewish political spectrum.

Again: NO ONE has said, asserted, or even hinted that the bulk of the Jewish population will vote repug.

I have flat-out said instead, that they probably will shy away from Obama. Just like Ed Koch has. This means a STIFF challenge for Obama just to garner his party's nomination in 2012. Says nothing at all about who will win the WH in 2012. And says nothing at all about repugs.

This is about the Democrats. Not about the repugs.

I don't see any challenge to 0bama. From what I have seen, very few Democrats are having buyers remorse about him. I have seen none on this board.

Some Republicans are fantasizing about gaining a huge number of seats. Their lips to Gds ear. (One guy is having wet dreams of 100 seats, which would not break my heart at all. ) Unless 0bama looses more than 40 seats, I don't see any real challenge too him. I have to admit that I don't see the Republicans gaining that many seats.

So unless someone other than Hillary challenges him (I can't see her candidacy going anywhere at all after the last fiasco) he is set for 2012. And given Jewish attitudes about domestic politics, even though from my perspective he is as good for the Jews as Ernst Rhoem, he will still get over 90% of the Jewish vote.

Hillary, as I have said many times, is the only living carbon-based life form on the planet capable of threatening Obama's re-election. This is if we don't count Obama himself.

All that said, you really should watch the video linked in the OP and really pay attention to what Koch says there.

I think you operate from the incorrect assumption that I am a repug. This is why you continue to try to muddy the waters with your partisan hack nonsense.

 

[Xenophon]

Koch clearly is comparing Obama to Chamberlin.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Koch clearly is comparing Obama to Chamberlin.

I'm glad you agree with me.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

I predicted during the campaign that this guy would abandon Israel. Most hardcore Left Wingers you speak to are usually virulently Anti-Semitic and Anti-Israel. Look at his own preacher and most of his radical Leftist buddies. This really was predictable as far as i'm concerned. American Jews who vote for Democrats really are Uncle Toms at this point. They should be ashamed of themselves. It's very sad.

 

[The Rabbi]

I predicted during the campaign that this guy would abandon Israel. Most hardcore Left Wingers you speak to are usually virulently Anti-Semitic and Anti-Israel. Look at his own preacher and most of his radical Leftist buddies. This really was predictable as far as i'm concerned. American Jews who vote for Democrats really are Uncle Toms at this point. They should be ashamed of themselves. It's very sad.

Yup, exactly right.
It is only sucker Jews like Jillian that can't admit their chosen shvartze is really their enemy. They will abandon Israel long before they abandon Obama. When Obama orders the U.S. to shoot down Israeli jets quisling Jews like Jillian will be declaring that the Israelis had it coming.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

I've never spoken to a Leftist who wasn't virulently Anti-Semitic and Anti-Israel. Look at all the radical Leftists this President associated with over the years. The Jews are always the evil villains as far as those kooks are concerned. So why do so many American Jews still vote for Democrats? It really is a mystery. American Jews have become Uncle Toms for sure. What a tragedy.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

virulently

$5 dollar word of the day! Used and spelled correctly as well!

+144

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Look at the Leftists in Europe especially. They're actually pretty open about expressing their racism towards the Jewish People. They don't even bother trying to hide their Anti-Semitism. Our Leftists here will begin to become more bold with their racism as well. This current President is a hardcore Leftist so i don't understand how people can be so surprised by his Anti-Israel policies. Didn't people pay attention during the Presidential Campaign? I guess not. American Jews should pay more attention and stop giving their votes away to people who actually despise them. Just a suggestion anyway.

 

[beowolfe]

He is comparing to Chamberlain.

I don't feel the Israelis are going to make the same mistake the Czecks did.

If 0bama pushes too hard, he will be the bigger looser. And if the Arabs think they can make hay while the US is not thinking clearly, they will be bigger losers yet.

The only way we can lose is if we continue being Israel's proxy, which we've been for a very long time.