know what really causes homosexuality....

[Gunny]

Are you going to stop dodging and pick a definition so that we can actually define who is normal and who isn't based on objective criteria?

Dodging? I think I posted the damned definitions right out of the dictionary, right? Quit playing your little games and get on with it. Geez ...

 

[Larkinn]

natural:

nat·u·ral (nāch'ər-əl, nāch'rəl) Pronunciation Key
adj.
1. Present in or produced by nature: a natural pearl.
2. Of, relating to, or concerning nature: a natural environment.
3. Conforming to the usual or ordinary course of nature: a natural death.

www.dictionary.com

While I'm choosing, I'll take #3 for the purposes of this discussion.

We were looking for normal...but not natural. I take it then you think that normal means natural and natural means conforming to the usual or ordinary course of nature?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Dodging? I think I posted the damned definitions right out of the dictionary, right? Quit playing your little games and get on with it. Geez ...

Hoisted on his own Petard. But do not expect him to admit it.

 

[Larkinn]

Dodging? I think I posted the damned definitions right out of the dictionary, right? Quit playing your little games and get on with it. Geez ...

tsk tsk...such impatience. Why such dislike over defining ones terms? I thought you were so convinced of how science favored you and such?...I would think you would relish this opportunity to prove to me once and for all how science is on your side?

 

[Gunny]

We were looking for normal...but not natural. I take it then you think that normal means natural and natural means conforming to the usual or ordinary course of nature?

I have provided dictionary definitions for both words. Feel free to use them where they fit best. While close in definition, they obviously are not identical terms.

Natural would be decided by nature itself; while, "normal" can be dictated by the majority accepting something unnatural as "normal."

 

[jillian]

natural:

nat·u·ral (nāch'ər-əl, nāch'rəl) Pronunciation Key
adj.
1. Present in or produced by nature: a natural pearl.
2. Of, relating to, or concerning nature: a natural environment.
3. Conforming to the usual or ordinary course of nature: a natural death.

www.dictionary.com

While I'm choosing, I'll take #3 for the purposes of this discussion.

Actually, homosexuality occurs with some frequency in the ordinary course of nature. We had a very cute gay penguin couple at the zoo here, actually. And, I know that among other zoo animals, particularly primates, it isn't as unusual as you might think.

So, I don't think that really supports your theory. Perhaps you mean "average" or "mean" behavior, which would certainly be true, but doesn't discount the fact that there is a percentage occurring naturally which doesn't conform to the mean.

 

[Gunny]

tsk tsk...such impatience. Why such dislike over defining ones terms? I thought you were so convinced of how science favored you and such?...I would think you would relish this opportunity to prove to me once and for all how science is on your side?

More like bored with playing semantics, dude. And please don't believe that I am delusional enough to think I can prove anything to you, regardless the facts that support my argument.

 

[Gunny]

Actually, homosexuality occurs with some frequency in the ordinary course of nature. We had a very cute gay penguin couple at the zoo here, actually. And, I know that among other zoo animals, particularly primates, it isn't as unusual as you might think.

So, I don't think that really supports your theory. Perhaps you mean "average" or "mean" behavior, which would certainly be true, but doesn't discount the fact that there is a percentage occurring naturally which doesn't conform to the mean.

That it ocurs does not place it within the parameters of the definition. Thus, the word "deviant." So, it supports my theory just fine.

 

[Gunny]

And while y'all sit here and play little baby word games, real life to the tune of a shovel and wheelbarrow beckons ....

 

[Larkinn]

*sigh* the reason I am trying to pin you down on this, and the reason you are squirming so much I am sure, is to show you how stupid your reasoning is. I am pretty sure you've realized this by now which is why you refuse to pin down any definitions.

You've said that homosexuality is wrong because its deviant...deviant is departing from the norm...norm is essentially natural which is "the usual course of nature...so essentially you've said that something is wrong because it deviates from "the usual course of nature"...the example given in the dictionary is of "a natural death"...so by your reasoning killing OBL (not a natural death) is immoral.

Its telling that you keep trying to use as vague terms as possible. I have the feeling you know how specious your own logic is.

As for RGS...I was setting him up. Its amusing that you had no idea it was happening...Gunny did, but you just kept saying really stupid shit. I would have loved to use your definition of normal...then Gunny would have essentially been saying that anything that is not the majority is wrong...so any acts of bravery/heroism/etc would be immoral...because its not in the majority.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

*sigh* the reason I am trying to pin you down on this, and the reason you are squirming so much I am sure, is to show you how stupid your reasoning is. I am pretty sure you've realized this by now which is why you refuse to pin down any definitions.

You've said that homosexuality is wrong because its deviant...deviant is departing from the norm...norm is essentially natural which is "the usual course of nature...so essentially you've said that something is wrong because it deviates from "the usual course of nature"...the example given in the dictionary is of "a natural death"...so by your reasoning killing OBL (not a natural death) is immoral.

Its telling that you keep trying to use as vague terms as possible. I have the feeling you know how specious your own logic is.

As for RGS...I was setting him up. Its amusing that you had no idea it was happening...Gunny did, but you just kept saying really stupid shit. I would have loved to use your definition of normal...then Gunny would have essentially been saying that anything that is not the majority is wrong...so any acts of bravery/heroism/etc would be immoral...because its not in the majority.

Your wrong. But then being a Mensa candidate you are just to "smart" for your own good.

I was rather particular on what I meant. You were not. We are discussing sexual behavior. GAY behavior is abnormal, since normal is Heterosexual. Gay behavior is still deviant, because the normal behavior is Heterosexual. Gay Behavior is aberrant, again because the norm in sexual behavior is Heterosexual.

Your claim the three words do not apply is simply incorrect.

 

[Larkinn]

Your wrong. But then being a Mensa candidate you are just to "smart" for your own good.

Your bitterness amuses me. Yes you are a moron. The sooner you accept that and get used to it, the more pleasant things will be.

I was rather particular on what I meant. You were not. We are discussing sexual behavior.

We are discussing sexual behavior? Whoah.

GAY behavior is abnormal, since normal is Heterosexual. Gay behavior is still deviant, because the normal behavior is Heterosexual. Gay Behavior is aberrant, again because the norm in sexual behavior is Heterosexual.

Your claim the three words do not apply is simply incorrect.

I'm sorry...when did I claim that the three words do not apply?

You do know that the norm in the US is NOT to be a US soldier...so are you ok with me saying that being a US soldier is abnormal, deviant, and aberrant?

 

[Larkinn]

PS...tell me exactly where I went wrong RGS. Did I use a wrong definition somewhere? Miss a link up somewhere?...please tell me in my proof of Gunny thinking that killing OBL is wrong, where exactly I messed up?

 

[jillian]

Actually, the word "deviant" implies a label imposed by "society". "Natural" applies to the frequency with which something occurs in nature.

For example, we would say that cannibalism is "deviant" because our society finds it unacceptable. It would not be considered deviant in cultures that are cannibalistic.

Homosexuality being "deviant" would imply that "society" judges it that way. That's simply untrue, though. Most people don't care one way or the other about the issue. Others have no problem with it. And still others are gay.

I'd wager only a small percentage see it as "deviant", which would make it, by definition, NOT deviant behavior. ;o)

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Do note that I have also made no absolute statements. At least about choice. Whether its a choice is irrelevant.



"Natural order"? More bullshit terms that mean nothing in the context of this discussion. Like "Aberrant" and "Deviant".

Well of course you didn't say this. Those words DO have context in THIS discussion. I already provided you the reason why.

 

[Larkinn]

Well of course you didn't say this. Those words DO have context in THIS discussion. I already provided you the reason why.

No, they don't. Technically, yes, they are definitionally correct, but I have already explained to you why they are dishonest.

Unless, of course, you also go around saying that US soldiers are aberrant and deviant. And if not, why not? Why are you comfortable saying one and not the other if the definiton is solely "not the majority"? Because of the negative connotations that come along with it...that you mean, but can't figure out a way to honestly express...so you call them deviant and aberrant.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

No, they don't. Technically, yes, they are definitionally correct, but I have already explained to you why they are dishonest.

Unless, of course, you also go around saying that US soldiers are aberrant and deviant. And if not, why not? Why are you comfortable saying one and not the other if the definiton is solely "not the majority"? Because of the negative connotations that come along with it...that you mean, but can't figure out a way to honestly express...so you call them deviant and aberrant.

Actually I did neither. I simply informed you the words apply. And why they apply. As I have stated previously gay people that practice their "sexual" preference are , from my religious standpoint, committing a sin. From a society stand point and the matter of laws and rights, they have every right to do as they please as long as it is legal.

 

[Larkinn]

Actually I did neither. I simply informed you the words apply. And why they apply. As I have stated previously gay people that practice their "sexual" preference are , from my religious standpoint, committing a sin. From a society stand point and the matter of laws and rights, they have every right to do as they please as long as it is legal.

Would you use any of those words to characterize homosexuality?...take it away from whether they technically fit the definition...I've already acknowledged they do...but would you use them?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Would you use any of those words to characterize homosexuality?...take it away from whether they technically fit the definition...I've already acknowledged they do...but would you use them?

Yes, though aberrant is a little harsh.

 

[Gunny]

*sigh* the reason I am trying to pin you down on this, and the reason you are squirming so much I am sure, is to show you how stupid your reasoning is. I am pretty sure you've realized this by now which is why you refuse to pin down any definitions.

You've said that homosexuality is wrong because its deviant...deviant is departing from the norm...norm is essentially natural which is "the usual course of nature...so essentially you've said that something is wrong because it deviates from "the usual course of nature"...the example given in the dictionary is of "a natural death"...so by your reasoning killing OBL (not a natural death) is immoral.

Its telling that you keep trying to use as vague terms as possible. I have the feeling you know how specious your own logic is.

As for RGS...I was setting him up. Its amusing that you had no idea it was happening...Gunny did, but you just kept saying really stupid shit. I would have loved to use your definition of normal...then Gunny would have essentially been saying that anything that is not the majority is wrong...so any acts of bravery/heroism/etc would be immoral...because its not in the majority.

You just can't help but be a smarmy dick, can you? I'm most certainly not squirming. I have no reason to. Yours is the argument that relies on smoke and mirrors.

There's nothing stupid about my reasoning. It's quite sound. You wish to play your little game of semantics and try to convince me a pile of shit is a bouquet of roses.

For a self-proclaimed genius, you sure acquit yourself poorly. I did not render moral judgement. I said homosexuality is deviant, period. It goes against what the majority accepts as "normal," and goes against nature.

Please explain how by providing you with dictionary definitions I am trying to use vague terms? What I'm NOT doing is giving you anything extra to prey upon with your word games; which, is what you are looking for.