King Obama and his speech.

[MaggieMae]

cue rdean for "but.. but Democrats are too DIVERSE to expect them to agree" in 4..3...2..1

No lie there, so I'll say it. No, Democrats have never operated with a herd mentality.

 

[MaggieMae]

If McCain did suggest a freeze on government spending, it's just proof that good ideas can come from both sides of the aisle.

I thought it was the closest any president has come to calling 'Bullshit!' on the political bullshitters. Last February, he called bullshit on the corporate bullshitters... both speeches recognized the ca$h-greased bridge between the two that the lobby industry represents - my hope in change has been somewhat rekindled.

This president calling 'BULLSHIT' toward fellow political bullshitters is hilarious and you buying it saddens me. Did you not see all the clapping going on? Do you think that they clapped because he was calling them bullshitters?

You've lit your hope on wet wood.

First State of the Union address, eh?

 

[MaggieMae]

Are you really so ignorant that you can't figure out that blaming Republicans for Obama's failure to pass his health care takeover doesn't work. You'd have to be a total fucking MORON to not realize that Democrats had super-majorities in BOTH houses and didn't need a single GOP vote. Oh wait.... nevermind

Derogatory statements directed at other members as well as direct or indirect personal attacks are permitted with the stipulation that you generally look like a fool when resorting to these tactics within a serious conversation on real issues. If you're comfortable playing the fool, feel free to do so.


lets try it really slow. Democrats aren't partisan hacks that just fall into the party line, hence why some who disagree with other dems don't just jump in lock, step and key. Republicans vote straight with the party and never work with democrats. . So a majority doesn't mean shit, and I don't know where this "super majority" comes from. Does a repub rarely ever vote with the dems? But dems vote with republicans.

Any more excuses as to why your guys just can't get it done? You can spin it anyway that you want to but it still comes out that Republicans had no power to obstruct anything. Dems just want to whine because, for a change, Republicans weren't stupid enough to provide them with political cover. In addition, if Democrats actually had any real core principles, they might be able to move their agenda.

What Republicans have had, and the reason they can be obstructionists is the airwaves. With Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, Drudge and FoxNews all together under one tent and screaming into their respective microphones, the negativity rolls over into Internet groups such as this one, and becomes mainstream news. It's that simple. Obama and the Democrats have had to play defense against side stories that pop up every day and trump what really happens of any importance. It's been going on from Day One.

 

[MaggieMae]

Funny, you claim "bought off". No, they actually compromised, something republicans apparently can't do. You know, in the real world, that's how things get done.

Ironically, the only two "bought off" were CONSERVATIVE Democrats: Ben Nelson and Mary Landrieu, which says volumes. Conservative = gimme.

 

[MaggieMae]

Welcome to USMB, Slate. Strap on your bullet proof vest, put new batteries in your bullshit detector, and we're happy for you to wade right on in.

It wasn't easy, as it was not a particularly impressive or inspiring Obama-type speech and it went way too long, but I didn't hear much in the speech other than recycled centrist campaign slogans without any real meat to back them up and some really good sounding stuff unless you realize that he didn't mean it for now but sometime in the future.

Had he gotten up there and said, okay. Here's the deal. There won't be any Federal healthcare reform other than enforce some anti-trust laws to break up some insurance company monopolies and remove restrictions so that insurance policies can be portable, and then we'll encourage the states to start their own reforms to help more people be insured. Had he said that and meant it, I would be singing his praises. Unfortunately he didn't.

Had he said that Cap & Trade is dead until there is strong, verifiable scientific evidence, something more than theory, that it will have any positive effect on the climate. We will however be focusing on a new energy policy that will include off shore and other oil exploration and drilling, nuclear, wind, solar, natural gas, and find some ways to use coal that won't harm the environment so that we will be as energy independent as we can possibly be. Had he said that and meant it, I would be singing his praises. Unfortunately he didn't.

Had he said that until this recession is over and the economy is healthy again and everybody who wants work is back to work, there will be no earmarks, no unnecessary discretionary spending of any kind, and we're going to try to save every penny that we can so that every nickle we have will be used to reduce the deficit, I would be singing his praises. Unfortunately he didn't.

Had he said that until this recession is over and the economy is healthy again and everybody who wants work is back to work, there will be no new taxes of any kind, we will at least substantially extend the Bush tax cuts or make them permanent, and we'll find some way to cut or eliminate as many capital gains and income taxes as we can responsibly do, I would be singing his praises. Unfortunately he didn't.

What he did promise was a frontal assault on the financial industry and some big corporations. what he did promise was spending a whole bunch more money that will disappear into the same rat holes as the last mega billion spending packages and did not suggest a single reform that would really have made a difference. Those I believe he will actually try to do.

But surely we can survive until November. I keep praying.

Well, let's face it, Foxy, Obama wasn't speaking just to YOU, nor just to Republicans, nor just to Democrats, nor just to liberals, nor just to pretend-we-never-heard-of-George-Bush conservatives, nor just to Tea Party Patriots, rednecks, African Americans, New England elitists. So to expect him to announce policy changes (which he is constitutionally not able to do in any event) would understandably make a whole bunch of people happy and a whole bunch of people unhappy.

He was speaking to all 305 million Americans.

I know you believe that Maggie, but I don't. I don't think he was speaking to all 305 million Americans at all. I think he was speaking to reassure the kool-ade crowd and maybe snooker back in some of the unintentionally gullible souls who bought into his hype and voted for him, but who are now having second thoughts.

This was a speech to shore up his poll numbers and I think can be trusted as absolutely nothing more than that.

So, I can still dream about what I wish he had said. What I wish he had meant. Who I wish he was. But he didn't. And he isn't. And I have accepted that.

Your opinion is accepted, but I find it unfortunate that you seem to have been thoroughly brainwashed and can no longer carry on a decent dialog without making some absurd and insulting remark. What's that line that was actually stolen from Democrats that conservatives now use? Oh yeah, you've finally gotten drunk on the Kool-Aid.

 

[Foxfyre]

Yes, I saw how they worked together yesterday RAISING the debt ceiling by another 1.9 trillion dollars on a strict party line vote.They were in a big big hurry to do that before they seated Scott Brown from Massachusetts who would have forced some serious budget cuts to go along with the raise.

The thing that is most amazing is the amazing disconnect in Obama's rhetoric vs the probable outcome. For isntance he said previously that they would pay for the healthcare overhaul, among other ways, by eliminating all the waste and graft that exists within Medicare and Medicaid (i.e. that part of the healthcare system that the government now runs.) If he can do that, why isn't it being done now? Why wait for a healthcare overhaul?
They are. I just randomly picked a few:

Task force uncovers $50M in alleged Medicare fraud; 53 arrested

MEDICARE FRAUD STRIKE FORCE INDICTS EIGHT MIAMI-DADE RESIDENTS FOR AIDS/HIV INFUSION FRAUD

MEDICARE'S MOST WANTED - MEDICARE FRAUD HEADLINE NEWS

Medicare Fraud Strike Force Operations Lead to Charges Against 32 Doctors and Health Care - talk.politics.medicine | Google Groups

Unconvincing. He is doing nothing differently or more aggressively than previous administrations. In fact, I am going to guess that many if not most of the investigations into all those cases you cited were started during the Bush administration. See here:

Report documents $47 billion in improper Medicare payouts - washingtonpost.com

He said in the SOTU that he was recommending freezing spending, but it wouldn't be done until next year as 'that is how budgeting works'. Baloney. What good does it do to freeze spending next year--anybody who believes that will happen with this bunch after a general election is a soft touch for bridge salesmen--if they continue to authorize mega billions more spending for whatever now?
We're already operating on the 2010 budget, that's why.

Baloney. Any president can call on Congress to back off spending initiatives at any time and can certainly choose to stop pushing for more and more spending. Obama made no such appeal to Congress and announced a whole new big long laundry list of social spending that he'll get done before the 'freeze' goes into effect. He must think the people are really REALLY stupid.

His magnanimous tax cuts for small business are just fine and dandy except that he won't give them to those businesses that are actually strong enough to hire people and issue subcontracts because any making $250,000 or more won't get them. Anything under that is probably one or two-man operations.
Small businesses are now reduced to two-man operations? My my, what a switch from the screeching that "Small businesses are the ones that create the most jobs and they should be given all the tax breaks!!!"

Read again what I said. Those businesses that will get tax relief are those least likely to be able to hire new employees. Those businesses strong enough to hire folks are going to get clobbered. They are all small businesses - $250,000 is a REALLY small business, but it will be taxed more under Obama's plan. Anything smaller than that is usually one to two or three or four guys working as subcontractors and who have no real expectation of growing.

The kool-ade drinkers continue to grovel at his feet. Thank God for the tea partiers, tax protesters, and others who honestly love and want to save this country.
That kind of comment is what is extremely insulting, and why YOU PEOPLE, while you may gain some traction, will never "win" the hearts and minds of the American people for any length of time. And why is that? Because most Americans are honest, law-abiding, hard-working people who love their country and don't believe it's necessary to be defined by one political corner in order to express that, like you do. An American doesn't need to be a "conservative" and placed in the RED box in order to prove we love our country.

I didn't insult anybody. Well okay, I did take a jab at the kool-ade drinkers as grovelers but, hey, I have to call them as I see them.

But my intent was to praise a constituency made up of conservative Republicans, Democrats, and Independents who I believe are doing what they can to set things right. You see that as insulting. Why is that? Is it because the people you champion can't say the same because they are the ones who want to benefit from government rather than reform it? Who see the government as the solution to all their problems rather than seeing that as their responsibility to deal with? Who want government to fix everything instead of getting out of the way and letting the American free market spirit do its thing?

They aren't buying the hype any more and are demanding real solutions, not propaganda that smoke screens a much different and much more insidious agenda. Will they prevail come November? We can sure hope.

Your answer to the country's problems is to sit around and bitch. Get out there and try to help by being part of the solution instead of constantly being part of (correction, MOST OF) the problem.

No, dear, I do a hell of a lot more than bitch. I express a rationale for my opinions in letters to the editor and on message boards like this. I write, e-mail, call, and fax my elected representatives. And I support Americans who do want honest reform of government and who are doing their damndest to stop the runaway headlong descent into Marxist socialism that our current leadership is taking us.

So what are you doing besides pretending the emperor is wearing clothes?

 

[Vel]

Funny, you claim "bought off". No, they actually compromised, something republicans apparently can't do. You know, in the real world, that's how things get done.

The Cornhusker KIckback and the Louisana Purchase could be called alot of things but compromise is hardly one of them.

 

[Vel]

Ironically, the only two "bought off" were CONSERVATIVE Democrats: Ben Nelson and Mary Landrieu, which says volumes. Conservative = gimme.

Kudo's to Maggie for being able to shake partisanship and admit that there were pay offs.

 

[Annie]

The Cornhusker KIckback and the Louisana Purchase could be called alot of things but compromise is hardly one of them.

I wonder what he'd call them if they'd been Bush pushing for the war?

I do hope though that the more liberals here, remember their tone and arguments down the line. Seems they have forgotten all their bushitler and chimpy comments from a little more than a year ago.

 

[MaggieMae]

The thing that is most amazing is the amazing disconnect in Obama's rhetoric vs the probable outcome. For isntance he said previously that they would pay for the healthcare overhaul, among other ways, by eliminating all the waste and graft that exists within Medicare and Medicaid (i.e. that part of the healthcare system that the government now runs.) If he can do that, why isn't it being done now? Why wait for a healthcare overhaul?
They are. I just randomly picked a few:

Task force uncovers $50M in alleged Medicare fraud; 53 arrested

MEDICARE FRAUD STRIKE FORCE INDICTS EIGHT MIAMI-DADE RESIDENTS FOR AIDS/HIV INFUSION FRAUD

MEDICARE'S MOST WANTED - MEDICARE FRAUD HEADLINE NEWS

Medicare Fraud Strike Force Operations Lead to Charges Against 32 Doctors and Health Care - talk.politics.medicine | Google Groups

Unconvincing. He is doing nothing differently or more aggressively than previous administrations. In fact, I am going to guess that many if not most of the investigations into all those cases you cited were started during the Bush administration. See here:

Report documents $47 billion in improper Medicare payouts - washingtonpost.com



Baloney. Any president can call on Congress to back off spending initiatives at any time and can certainly choose to stop pushing for more and more spending. Obama made no such appeal to Congress and announced a whole new big long laundry list of social spending that he'll get done before the 'freeze' goes into effect. He must think the people are really REALLY stupid.



Read again what I said. Those businesses that will get tax relief are those least likely to be able to hire new employees. Those businesses strong enough to hire folks are going to get clobbered. They are all small businesses - $250,000 is a REALLY small business, but it will be taxed more under Obama's plan. Anything smaller than that is usually one to two or three or four guys working as subcontractors and who have no real expectation of growing.



I didn't insult anybody. Well okay, I did take a jab at the kool-ade drinkers as grovelers but, hey, I have to call them as I see them.

But my intent was to praise a constituency made up of conservative Republicans, Democrats, and Independents who I believe are doing what they can to set things right. You see that as insulting. Why is that? Is it because the people you champion can't say the same because they are the ones who want to benefit from government rather than reform it? Who see the government as the solution to all their problems rather than seeing that as their responsibility to deal with? Who want government to fix everything instead of getting out of the way and letting the American free market spirit do its thing?

Your answer to the country's problems is to sit around and bitch. Get out there and try to help by being part of the solution instead of constantly being part of (correction, MOST OF) the problem.

No, dear, I do a hell of a lot more than bitch. I express a rationale for my opinions in letters to the editor and on message boards like this. I write, e-mail, call, and fax my elected representatives. And I support Americans who do want honest reform of government and who are doing their damndest to stop the runaway headlong descent into Marxist socialism that our current leadership is taking us.

So what are you doing besides pretending the emperor is wearing clothes?

I rest my case. There's no longer any point in even trying to discuss anything with you when everything you say is laced with insults. And the INSULT I was previously referring to is what I specifically called you out on. Your implication that anyone who doesn't share your personal ideologies must be unAmerican. Those are the kind of comments we all expect from the likes of some of the classless jerks who post here, but not from someone who has the intelligence to articulate and doesn't need to include snark to make a point.

 

[Foxfyre]

Without real action, talk is just a bunch of words.

Absolutely true. I wish he would point out the reasons congress and the lobby industry should be ashamed once a week instead of once a year. Other than that, there is not much action considered legal against the frame-work congress and the lobby industry have built for themselves that a president can take.

If asked to by your President, would you march on Washington, D.C. and attempt to assemble a human wall between your representatives in government and the well-paid lobbyists who feed their addiction to wealth and power?

I would.

What would that accomplish other than infringement of free speech? Lobbyists are people with an agenda, a need, or a proposal that have as much right to be heard as anybody else with an agenda, a need, or a hope. All lobbyists are just salesmen trying to get their share of the business or benefits.

All we need to do to solve the problem of big corporate donations or lobbyists or special interests or any of the other 'villains' that get kicked around by the administration and on these boards are two simple things:

1) When the government lets a contract, establish the highest standards for excellence as possible and then put it out for bids with the lowest bidder getting the job.

2) Make it illegal for the federal government to spend a dime of taxpayer money for any form of charity or benevolence or benefit to any individual, organization, or entity that does not benefit all citizens equally.

Then let the lobbyists lobby away. They bring good information that Congress would not otherwise have, but they wouldn't have any way to buy influence.

 

[Annie]

Seems to me that 'blaming the lobbyists,' is akin to blaming the 'mistress' for the wandering spouse. It's not the mistress that promised to be faithful.

 

[Foxfyre]

Seems to me that 'blaming the lobbyists,' is akin to blaming the 'mistress' for the wandering spouse. It's not the mistress that promised to be faithful.