Killers Coming Home?

But killers are not the only problem and, especially concerning veterans, violence is the root of the entire problem and means addiction, abusive relationships, and murder.

In other words, you cannot validate your comments, just continue to make them.

Our entire society, glorifies violence. Violence itself does not automatically lead to addiction, abusive relationships and/or murder. The same sweeping generalizations can be made of the society in which we live WITHOUT even including veterans.

Either support your accusations with actual facts instead of your opinion based on a misleading article, or back off the accusation because quite simply, you don't have an argument.
 
I noticed the headlines on the right bar and clicked on the one titled:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080113/ap_on_re_us/killings_after_combat

After reading a bit, I thought, this sounds weird, it's seems the only purpose is to label the returning vets as, 'killers.'

Just didn't sound right. Yet I'm not interested enough to find the stats and then have someone disagree if they didn't work out. Luckily someone else did:

http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/the_media_does_it_again.php

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You're problem is the you're comparing homicides rates to murder rates. Homicides are much more common than actual murders. A murder rate of 7 per 100,000 is about twice the normal murder rate.
 
I noticed the headlines on the right bar and clicked on the one titled:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080113/ap_on_re_us/killings_after_combat

After reading a bit, I thought, this sounds weird, it's seems the only purpose is to label the returning vets as, 'killers.'

Just didn't sound right. Yet I'm not interested enough to find the stats and then have someone disagree if they didn't work out. Luckily someone else did:

http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/the_media_does_it_again.php

[/COLOR]

#24 United States: 0.042802 per 1,000 people

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita


7 per 100,000 is higher than the normal rate of 4 per 100,000.

You see, homicide includes a lot more than murder. Murder is a very specific kind of homicide, the most heinous. It's a homicide committed with malice and intent. Manslaughters are also homicides, and so are self-defense shootings. Homicide is just a blanket term for "The killing of one human being by another", however, the law seperates the different levels of homicides, from murders, to justified homicides. Murders are the least common of homicides.
 
There is no evidence that the military , its retirees or those that served less then to retirement are any more of a threat than anyone else. You keep making these claims without a single source to back them up.

Even if a comprehensive study were conducted by reliable sources you would still refuse to believe that it is possible that the same military corps that make killers out of men may not have a way to balance that transition with being a human being.

What is a Marine's job gunny?
 
In other words, you cannot validate your comments, just continue to make them.

Our entire society, glorifies violence. Violence itself does not automatically lead to addiction, abusive relationships and/or murder. The same sweeping generalizations can be made of the society in which we live WITHOUT even including veterans.

Either support your accusations with actual facts instead of your opinion based on a misleading article, or back off the accusation because quite simply, you don't have an argument.
Why? So you can smugly mock me or my sources? What is a Marine's job?

TO KILL KILL KILL!
 
Taomon, I'm probably just as inexperienced as you when it comes to things military, so I'm comfortable responding to you.

What is a Marine's job?

TO KILL KILL KILL!

Isn't that a gross oversimplification?

Isn't it just as much a Marine's job to obey orders, respect chains of command, conduct themselves as honorable warriors, rather than marauding barbarians?

I mean, you could say that a firefighter's job is to put out fires, but you don't see them rampaging across the countryside putting out campfires. Their job is to put out fires in specific situations, according to certain protocols.

I haven't done the research, but I would think that a serviceman's increased capacity to kill people would be balanced by the strict discipline that necessarily went with him learning that capacity. These guys aren't mercenaries or petty thugs, you know.
 
Taomon, I'm probably just as inexperienced as you when it comes to things military, so I'm comfortable responding to you.



Isn't that a gross oversimplification?

Isn't it just as much a Marine's job to obey orders, respect chains of command, conduct themselves as honorable warriors, rather than marauding barbarians?

I mean, you could say that a firefighter's job is to put out fires, but you don't see them rampaging across the countryside putting out campfires. Their job is to put out fires in specific situations, according to certain protocols.

I haven't done the research, but I would think that a serviceman's increased capacity to kill people would be balanced by the strict discipline that necessarily went with him learning that capacity. These guys aren't mercenaries or petty thugs, you know.

You're talking to an uber-macho conservative though. Killing is good fun.
 
Why? So you can smugly mock me or my sources? What is a Marine's job?

TO KILL KILL KILL!

A Marines Job is to defend his or her Country. To obey all lawful orders and to conduct themselves in a manner befitting a Marine.

That could include killing in a war but it also includes a myriad of other things. MOST "jobs" in the Marine Corps are not even combat arms "jobs". But every Marine is a basic rifle man.

Wanna know how long you would be a free person, able to spout off about those murdering troops if there were NO troops?
 
Taomon, I'm probably just as inexperienced as you when it comes to things military, so I'm comfortable responding to you.



Isn't that a gross oversimplification?

Isn't it just as much a Marine's job to obey orders, respect chains of command, conduct themselves as honorable warriors, rather than marauding barbarians?

I mean, you could say that a firefighter's job is to put out fires, but you don't see them rampaging across the countryside putting out campfires. Their job is to put out fires in specific situations, according to certain protocols.

I haven't done the research, but I would think that a serviceman's increased capacity to kill people would be balanced by the strict discipline that necessarily went with him learning that capacity. These guys aren't mercenaries or petty thugs, you know.
Have you been reading the entire thread? Gunny and Karen are trying to make it sounds as though it is a ridiculous claim that the military and deployment into battle creates killers.

I come from a military family. I understand what soldiers go through, which is why I will never join a military branch ever. I know first hand what combat and military training does to a person.

Not every person, but there must be a better way to screen those people, who are liable to crack, out before they are forever altered.

Military training is not a stroll in the park, and that is a point that even gunny cannot argue with. It is a very gruelling process that tests the merits of a person, right down to their soul.

Now boot camp is supposed to seperate the men from the boys (so to speak). But for a percentage of the population, that is too much exposure to the wrong elements. Just ask the families of victims of Charles Whitman and the DC Sniper.
 
A Marines Job is to defend his or her Country. To obey all lawful orders and to conduct themselves in a manner befitting a Marine.

That could include killing in a war but it also includes a myriad of other things. MOST "jobs" in the Marine Corps are not even combat arms "jobs". But every Marine is a basic rifle man.

Wanna know how long you would be a free person, able to spout off about those murdering troops if there were NO troops?

The problem with your statement is that you assume, based on my previous posts, that I believe we should have no military. I agree that we need a military, I do not agree with what our soldiers do for that military/and their corporate sponsors.

And here is the crux. If we eliminate the military tomorrow, that does not mean our freedom would automatically be revoked or threatened.

It is statements like yours that try to make people believe that the soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan are defending our freedoms. They are not. Our freedom was not in jeopardy of being even remotely being threatened by Iraq or that little sand box called Afghanistan.

No, the threat to liberty and freedom is much closer to home and wears a smirk as he tells you that he will veto bills that help the work class afford health care but we need to send billions into the hands of Blackwater, Haliburton and other war profiteers.
 
The problem with your statement is that you assume, based on my previous posts, that I believe we should have no military. I agree that we need a military, I do not agree with what our soldiers do for that military/and their corporate sponsors.

And here is the crux. If we eliminate the military tomorrow, that does not mean our freedom would automatically be revoked or threatened.

It is statements like yours that try to make people believe that the soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan are defending our freedoms. They are not. Our freedom was not in jeopardy of being even remotely being threatened by Iraq or that little sand box called Afghanistan.

No, the threat to liberty and freedom is much closer to home and wears a smirk as he tells you that he will veto bills that help the work class afford health care but we need to send billions into the hands of Blackwater, Haliburton and other war profiteers.

If your stupid enough to think we can disband our military and still remain a free nation your beyond help.
 

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