kids: get ready to be be drafted for corrupt politicians

[dijetlo]

Posted by DKSuddeth
a republican majority congress and senate will do away with social security and move Americans over to privatizing their retirements with investments and stocks.

You make some good points. The battle right now over the Medicare bill does indeed highlight the splits politically within the Republican Party. The group in opposition to this legislation amongst the repubs is the fiscal conservatives. These are the "starve the beast" folks (though in fairness, that is an oversimplification of their argument). Bush isn't a fiscal conservative, by any definition, he's a corporatist and his Medicare bill reflects that. We may believe that it is crony capitalism at its' worst but others see it as a streamlining/cost cutting measure, and we'll have to wait for data before we can know if that is the case. HMO premium hikes almost always outstrip increases in Medicare, so what is cheaper today may be a bait and switch game from the HMOs'. They have two years, a ton of money and an army of lobbyists to get the regulations they want so expect more trouble between the corporatist center of the repubs and the fiscal conservatives, who like a poor husband keep pointing to the price tag.
What I haven't heard from the corporatists is an explanation of why they think the care will be improved? Medicare provides better care now than our HMOs', at least an overwhelming number of seniors’ believe that, why would mixing the HMOs' into the picture improve the quality to seniors? I'm already seeing commercials on the television, paid for by the Insurance industry, urging me to support this bill. That tells me the the HMOs' plan to make lots of money from our government program...

 

[NightTrain]

Do us all a favor and lose the

(s)election

bit, Spilly. Please. Most rabid libs have moved on from that old bit.

 

[Annie]

While this bill is being pushed by the likes of Rangle for political purposes, the idea that a draft may be necessary, soon after the 2004 elections, regardless of who is elected, is real.

Being the mother of a 20 year old and an 18 year old, I can tell you that I am telling them to think of what they wish to do if a draft comes. I support the war, yet I would rather my sons, both of whom are very good at testing and academic work, enlist rather than become fodder in the infantry. Wake up America, we are at war and we should be encouraging our kids to take control of their futures.

 

[Dan]

I dunno about the draft... If Bush is re-elected, and he's seriously going to try to continue to fight a "war on terrorism", then yeah, I could see the draft coming back, seeing as how there's really no feasible way to win or victoriously end a war on terrorism, we're not just going to look around one day and say "well, looks like the entire world loves us now, war's over!"

For those who don't know, I'm a 20-year-old junior in college, so I'll probably be getting out of school before this thing ends. But, hey, I've got three words if they bring it back: "vive la Mexico!"

 

[Annie]

Well Dan,
One of my sons is your age, but he would no more think of Mexico or Canada than leaving his family. I guess that is one of the reasons I'm proud of him and all my children.

I guess they come from it honestly enough, their great grandfather was in the Spanish American War, in the Navy. He was inducted from Ellis Island, made a US citizen, returned and became a railroad engineer.

Their grandfather, his son, was in the first wave of draft for WWII. He was seriously injured at Omaha Beach, spent a year in hospital in England, then served in staff position until 1946, since those in foreign lands were released first.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Kathianne
One of my sons is your age, but he would no more think of Mexico or Canada than leaving his family. I guess that is one of the reasons I'm proud of him and all my children.

Well stated! There are plenty of young men and women that prefer to be honorable than run from serving their country. Trust me, regardless of the liberal spouting, these honorable people far outnumber those that refuse to serve their country in time of need.

Welcome to the board, Kathianne.

 

[SLClemens]

Another war like the one in Iraq (maybe Operation Syrian Freedom?) would take about anther 250,000 troops. We can get this from voluntary enlistment and pulling troops from Japan and Europe. One big problem will be National Guardsmen/women quiting, but even this could be reversed somewhat with better benefits and shorter rotations.

If I had an 18-year-old I might be carefully documenting any medical problems and making contacts with lots of medical professionals, but otherwise I wouldn't be worrying too much.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by SLClemens
If I had an 18-year-old I might be carefully documenting any medical problems and making contacts with lots of medical professionals, but otherwise I wouldn't be worrying too much.

How very sad that someone would instill beliefs of refusing to serve and honor their country on their children.

 

[SLClemens]

Originally posted by jimnyc
How very sad that someone would instill beliefs of refusing to serve and honor their country on their children.

It would depend completely on what my country was doing and planning to do. Should a German or a Japanese in the 1930s have abided by the same philosophy?

 

[Annie]

It would depend completely on what my country was doing and planning to do.

I do not disagree with the above quote, however I fail to see a connection in the current efforts. The idea that somehow this 'pre-emptive war' is part of some 'grand plan' has been ridiculous from the beginning. The US did not attack the terrorists on 9/11, rather it was the other way around. The current administration at the time showed every indication of being the most isolationist in the past 50 years.

There should have been clear responses to the first WTC attack, the USS Cole, the African attacks, along with all the others, but there wasn't-so as bin Laden reasoned, there would be none this time. Well, his strategy was flawed and I think many were surprised.

Neither he nor his followers are just going to go away, that should be obvious by what is happening in Turkey and Iraq, not to mention Southeast Asia and the rest of the Middle East.

 

[eric]

Welcome Kathianne, I have not had a chance to say hello!

Let me start by thanking your family for their service to this great nation!

My feeling is that we as citizens can affect policy thru our representatives, whom we elect to office. It is dangerous for us to allow each family the right to pick and choose the conflicts to with their sons and daughters are sent to fight. An effective national defense cannot be based on such variables.

No matter how right and moral the cause of a future conflict might be there would allways be people who would use this as an excuse to let others make the ultimate sacrifice.

In a democracy the needs of the population must come before the personal opinions of the individual. I do not agree with many social programs yet I am required to pay huge taxes which fund these programs. Why? Is my opinion not important ? Should I not have a say over how my money is used ?

In reality I do, but it is through representation, that my voice is heard.

 

[SLClemens]

Originally posted by Kathianne
I do not disagree with the above quote, however I fail to see a connection in the current efforts. The idea that somehow this 'pre-emptive war' is part of some 'grand plan' has been ridiculous from the beginning. The US did not attack the terrorists on 9/11, rather it was the other way around. The current administration at the time showed every indication of being the most isolationist in the past 50 years.

There should have been clear responses to the first WTC attack, the USS Cole, the African attacks, along with all the others, but there wasn't-so as bin Laden reasoned, there would be none this time. Well, his strategy was flawed and I think many were surprised.

Neither he nor his followers are just going to go away, that should be obvious by what is happening in Turkey and Iraq, not to mention Southeast Asia and the rest of the Middle East.

Near the end of his term Clinton commissioned Richard Clarke to come up with a policy proposal in wich Condeleza Rice and Bush took hardly any interest.

You're right that Bid Laden's followers are not going to go away. They're going to increase as a result of what we're doing in Iraq; Turkey could be evidence of this. The "War on Terror" does not seem to be doing much to stop terrorism internationally. Terrorism has certainly skyrocketed in Iraq, and it continues in Afghanistan.

 

[janeeng]

You're right that Bid Laden's followers are not going to go away. They're going to increase as a result of what we're doing in Iraq; Turkey could be evidence of this. The "War on Terror" does not seem to be doing much to stop terrorism internationally. Terrorism has certainly skyrocketed in Iraq, and it continues in Afghanistan.

But, it has gotten better here!!! and I think that the "War on Terror" is helping the situation here. After 9/11 things sure have changed, and I haven't heard anything else happening since then. Yes, it's a shame it's happening everywhere else, but hopefully it was stop everywhere. It's a shame that this is the way the world is, but, it has to stop somewhere. I only have one Son, but if he came to me and said he wanted to serve for our Country, I would support him and be proud.

BTW - nice having you here Kathianne

 

[Annie]

First let me say thank you to all of you for welcoming me. I do appreciate that!

Eric, you are on track with representation being our best road to influencing decision making. Writing letters to you Congresspeople and to your major newspapers is also a good idea, they have more impact than many understand.


St. Clemans, (hope I have that right), I must disagree with you about what is happening in Turkey and Iraq currently. We are not 'creating' terrorists, rather they correctly sense a threat and have activated those trained long ago, not to mention the wannabies that have gone along for the adventure. Just check out some of the returned and disillusioned Syrian boards, who thought they were fighting for 'Islam' and then realized they were just sacrificial lambs for the regime.

 

[dijetlo]

Originally posted by janeeng
But, it has gotten better here!!! and I think that the "War on Terror" is helping the situation here. After 9/11 things sure have changed, and I haven't heard anything else happening since then.

Al-Qaeda took 8 years to launch 2 successful attacks in the US. Every source of information indicates the terrorists are still trying, suicide bombers are not afraid of our increased security. Every security expert I've heard speak indicates that as long as the will to penetrate US security conitues to exist, we'll eventually get a repeat of 9/11

Eric
I do not agree with many social programs yet I am required to pay huge taxes which fund these programs.

I would take issue with your example. The sacrifice you are asked to make is not unique nor does it rise to the level of "life threatening". Until you're ordered to join that "thin red line", where lives are going to end in the blink of an eye, you might want to reserve judgement.

In reality I do, but it is through representation, that my voice is heard.

You also come on message boards and complain. You excersize your rights under the first amendment and though I don't agree with your position, I applaud you for it. I don't think any effort to get somebody to just "shut up and go along" is very "american". This push by the right to silence criticism as suddenly unamerican is not going to gain much traction with the independants who will decide the '04 election. It is a core philosophy of fascism so little wonder as a political position it is suicide.
Welcome aboard Kathianne, I've enjoyed your posts
Though I must disagree with your argument that our goal in Iraq is tied to 9/11. Bush detailed our argument for invasion prior to commencement of hostilities;
October 7, 2002
President Bush Outlines Iraqi Threat
State of the Union" January 28, 2003
He lays out a very elequant case for invading Iraq. The only fault to his argument is little of what he claimed about WMDs' and Hussein turned out to be true. GWBs' association of Al-Qaeda and Hussein has also fallen by the wayside, as recently as October GWB stated their was no proof of a connection between Al-Qaeda and Hussein. The recent flap in the weakly standard over Douglas Feifths "proof" not withstanding.
I will point this out, as often as I think it is appropriate, as is my right. You may choose not to read it, but that is the extent at which your rights (as well as the Governments') end.

 

[Annie]

dijetlo

Thanks for the kind words. The WMD emphasis doesn't bother me all that much, obviously there are and were terrorists there and I'm glad we brought the war there, than reknew it here. In no way does that mean I think we are in the clear here, I don't. I do think if we hadn't responded or we weaken our resolve, we will face infinately more problems. Just my opinion.

 

[eric]

What I was illustrating was the concept. Let me turn the question back on you, do you think that each family should be able to pick and choose in times of crisis?

Until you're ordered to join that "thin red line", where lives are going to end in the blink of an eye, you might want to reserve judgement.

No, I was never ordered, but I did register with selective service when I turned 18, no hesitation, no second thoughts, and keep in mind this was during the Cold War when there was a very real possiblity of a full scale conflict with the USSR.

 

[Annie]

Eric,
Glad you followed the rules, which is also what my sons have done. I can understand anyone disagreeing with the decisions by any administration and believe they should make their voice known. With that said, I believe that if the country 'calls' one should be willing to answer, either by serving or by emigrating.

That is not 'my country, right or wrong' but rather the allegiance one owes to country, family, and friends. I will defend anyone who feels so strongly they would renounce their citizenship-that is making their voice well known.

 

[SLClemens]

Originally posted by Kathianne
dijetlo

Thanks for the kind words. The WMD emphasis doesn't bother me all that much, obviously there are and were terrorists there and I'm glad we brought the war there, than reknew it here. In no way does that mean I think we are in the clear here, I don't. I do think if we hadn't responded or we weaken our resolve, we will face infinately more problems. Just my opinion.

So why do you think the 9/11 terrorists attacked us and what does this have to do with what's going on in Iraq?

 

[SLClemens]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Eric,
Glad you followed the rules, which is also what my sons have done. I can understand anyone disagreeing with the decisions by any administration and believe they should make their voice known. With that said, I believe that if the country 'calls' one should be willing to answer, either by serving or by emigrating.

That is not 'my country, right or wrong' but rather the allegiance one owes to country, family, and friends. I will defend anyone who feels so strongly they would renounce their citizenship-that is making their voice well known.

Emmigrate to where? Some other countries have looser immigration restrictions than the US but you can't exactly fly somewhere and say "I don't like the draft".

What would you have suggeted to the 100,000s of Iraqi conscripts before the invasion? Should they have followed your advice that "if the country 'calls' one should be willing to answer, either by serving or by emigrating?". Would we have welcomed them if they had started arriving in droves?