Kathianne: Why do you hate France

[8236]

War on 'terror'?

Why do you not hate Germany?

 

[freeandfun1]

War on 'terror'?

Why do you not hate Germany?

Perhaps because the French have ALWAYS been self-righteous in their views.

As for the Germans, I myself have always enjoyed the Germans. Many of us vets have at least served SOME time in Germany and I think that, for the most part, most of us agree that during that time we did spend there, the Germans were pretty cool to us. Sure, the "outlook" has changed and they are not as friendly now, but I have no first hand experience of Germans being rude to me because I am American, but I have had experiences with French that have been rude to me for that reason.

 

[Annie]

War on 'terror'?

Why do you not hate Germany?

Surely I wonder why do I get asked these kind of questions? Why not SE or MB or DK? Never mind Jimnyc, we all know NOT to ask him this kind of question. Is it something I've done? Dang, for the most part here I am minding my own business, just reading and plugging away at some responses.

Well Mr/Ms Number, let me say that I don't HATE the French. I just do not believe they are a US ally, indeed, I believe they are at best a nuisance, at worst an enemy.

Actually, read this: http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10454
and you'll see that my instincts were correct, the French were addressing this nearly 60 years ago.

Germany is a different kettle of fish altogether. I'm not so sure the German people care for US all that much, but their leadership does, Schroeder's pandering campaigning aside. See, even us conservatives are nuanced enough to get the difference.

 

[MrMarbles]

Perhaps because the French have ALWAYS been self-righteous in their views.

Pot calling kettle black alert!!

 

[freeandfun1]

Pot calling kettle black alert!!

Not at all. We have done MORE for Europe than Europe has EVER done for us. And the French like to think they are so superior. Then why the fuck did we have to come to their rescue in WWII? So YOU ARE WRONG! History is on MY SIDE!

 

[MtnBiker]

War on 'terror'?

Why do you not hate Germany?

Why do you put words into a person's mouth or project unjustified personal feelings one my have. Are you some sort of Miss Cleo type of a misguided clairvoyant?

 

[nbdysfu]

their first king killed joan of arc. their nobles killed Louis XV. Their Terror became one of the brightest slurs against democracy. They've dumped every one of their twentieth century problems on our shoulders. They're obsessed with forming a 'balance of power' because they must miss the cold war. Osirak, rubber plants, haiti, southern aristocracy, oil for food, algeria, vichy france, maginot [french for 'maginary,] and they're snobs.

that said, this girl I work with is very diligent and one of the nicest persons you would ever meet.

 

[Shazbot]

that said, this girl I work with is very diligent and one of the nicest persons you would ever meet.

I take it this girl you work with is french?

-Douglas

 

[Annie]

War on 'terror'?

Why do you not hate Germany?

Just came across this and think it fits in pretty well with my 'take' on France, and perhaps even Germany.

http://vodkapundit.com/archives/006469.php

EXCERPT:

For better or for worse, America will remain involved in the world to an extent not seen since the era of the Cuban Missile Crisis and Vietnam, for the foreseeable future. In case you hadn't heard, we had a couple skyscrapers knocked over a couple years back, and we're still a little pissed off about the whole thing. From Marrakech to Manila, from the Rio Grande to the Rio Plata, we're all kinds of tied up in world events.

And like it or not, we're going stay that way. Another 9/11-scale terror attack is more likely involve us further in world affairs, than it is to force us to sue for peace. That's just how Americans are. We don't usually ask for peace; we prefer to dictate its terms.

The Muslim world in general, and the Arab world in particular, will continue to dominate our strategic thinking and our defensive worries for a long time to come. We're not about to retreat from Latin America, especially in light of recent events in Venezuela. And whether out of charity, fear, or both, we'll find ourselves increasingly entangled in the internal affairs of most every sub-Saharan African nation.

China will keep us busy arming Taiwan, and will keep the US Navy running war games and maneuvers just in case. Japan is quiet in the way North Korea isn't – which means northern Asia will never be allowed to drop completely under our radar. Other long-term concerns include the democratization of Vietnam, the stability of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal, China's demographic (if not military) threat to Siberia, Caspian oil, and the under-reported and seemingly-unending conflict between Christianity and Radical Islam in the Sahel. The threat of loose Russian nukes will keep us involved in the former USSR to an extent far larger than Russia's current stature would dictate.

So France and Germany can go on being just as bratty as they want, but the US is not about to retreat from the world stage. Far from being the cause of some resurgent US isolationism, Franco-German failure to bear their burden in the new War will only enhance the US presence on the world stage, while minimizing their own. That said, re-read the two paragraphs above this one.

What region did I leave out of the strategic assessment? Bar Russia, I've left out all of continental Europe.

I didn't do so out of forgetfulness or spite – well, maybe a little spite. But in all honesty, given our concerns today, what concerns do we have left in Europe?

For almost the entire 20th Century, the American foreign policy experience was defined by Europe. When the Anglo-French alliance couldn't force the Germans back, we stepped in. When almost the entire continent was under Nazi rule, we stepped in. We Soviet tanks and intentions were both poised to turn all of Europe into Stalinland, we manned the barricades – and stayed there for fifty years. When no one could get a handle on the ethnic slaughter in the Balkans, we stepped in.

We've bled for Europe. We put Europe under our nuclear umbrella, claiming we'd allow our own cities to be destroyed, if the Soviets ever threatened Paris or Bonn. American dollars paid for Europe's postwar reconstruction.

Yet when we were attacked on 9/11, all we got in return for our troubles was a linen hanky pressed to a dry eye. France even went so far as to scuttle NATO or even UN involvement in Iraqi peacekeeping.

I don't know what big crisis France or Germany may someday face. But if they find they can't handle it, and they come running to us for help. . .

. . .if we tell them to get lost, will they have anyone to blame but themselves?

 

[MrMarbles]

Not at all. We have done MORE for Europe than Europe has EVER done for us. And the French like to think they are so superior. Then why the fuck did we have to come to their rescue in WWII? So YOU ARE WRONG! History is on MY SIDE!

Um, okay, whatever. It took pearl harbour to bring America into the war, and that was in the South Pacific. Hitler in turn declared war on America, this was roughly two years after France was overrun. America, not you, came to France and helped liberate it, yes. But not after a whole lot of sitting on it's hands. And in the end, WWII was the best thing to happen to the US. After that, with everyone else weak, it was able to assum the role as a super power, which in turned allowed it to spread it's views on other peoples.

 

[MtnBiker]

which in turned allowed it to spread it's views on other peoples.

Prosperity and freedom

 

[Shazbot]

Um, okay, whatever. It took pearl harbour to bring America into the war, and that was in the South Pacific. Hitler in turn declared war on America, this was roughly two years after France was overrun. America, not you, came to France and helped liberate it, yes. But not after a whole lot of sitting on it's hands. And in the end, WWII was the best thing to happen to the US. After that, with everyone else weak, it was able to assum the role as a super power, which in turned allowed it to spread it's views on other peoples.

While America was practicing an attempted neutrality during the beginning of WWII, it was hardly sitting on its hands. America was helping out the allied powers in many ways short of actual troop commission - from arms to intelligence. America's isolationism actually stemmed from the commonly held idea (at the time) that European affairs ought to stay in Europe. As it turned out, both sides of the ocean had to work together for the benefit of the whole world. It's interesting how in today's age, Europe (principally France) likes the idea that America ought not to meddle in European affairs. Unfortunately, history teaches us that Europe simply can't take care of itself in the end.

-Douglas

 

[MrMarbles]

While America was practicing an attempted neutrality during the beginning of WWII, it was hardly sitting on its hands. America was helping out the allied powers in many ways short of actual troop commission - from arms to intelligence. America's isolationism actually stemmed from the commonly held idea (at the time) that European affairs ought to stay in Europe. As it turned out, both sides of the ocean had to work together for the benefit of the whole world. It's interesting how in today's age, Europe (principally France) likes the idea that America ought not to meddle in European affairs. Unfortunately, history teaches us that Europe simply can't take care of itself in the end.

-Douglas

America did help plenty. But understand, they didn't come running in to save the day when they had a chance to. They did so when the war finally came to them.

Not at all. We have done MORE for Europe than Europe has EVER done for us. And the French like to think they are so superior. Then why the fuck did we have to come to their rescue in WWII? So YOU ARE WRONG! History is on MY SIDE!

Thats the blanket staement which is wrong.

 

[Hobbit]

America did help plenty. But understand, they didn't come running in to save the day when they had a chance to. They did so when the war finally came to them.

That's because we told Europe to mind it's own business. We saw WWI as their Civil War and decided to let it stay that way until the Germans started sinking our ships. After the horror of WWI, we were determined to stay out of number 2, but Japan left us no choice. However, make no mistake, the Allies would have either lost WWII or come under control of the Soviets had it not been for America. Just because we intended to let Britain and Russia save the day doesn't mean we didn't do it in the end.

Thats the blanket staement which is wrong.

No, actually. It's 100% correct. Europe oppressed us in the French and Indian War, American Revolution, War of 1812, and the Spanish-American war. They never helped us rebuild our country after a war. We pulled Europe out of the fire twice in open war only after the aggressors proved they were too stupid to avoid the most industrialized nation on the planet. After WWII, the George C. Marshall plan, which got him the Nobel Peace Prize, rebuilt the devastated countries. Their own citizens will admit that they would have died without U.S. help. Let's also not forget that winning the arms race and diplomatic pressures from Reagan removed the fear of Soviet conquest. Europe is the whiniest and most easily conquored continent on the planet (ever play Risk?). I don't want them controlling my defense.

 

[Comrade]

America did help plenty. But understand, they didn't come running in to save the day when they had a chance to. They did so when the war finally came to them.

Not all at. We were shipping out arms and supplies to the Allies, especially UK, well before Pearl Harbour. We helped decisively before that.

Thats the blanket staement which is wrong.

Everyone is forgetting the fact that the USA protected Europe from the USSR for 60 years of cold war. That's primarily why Europe owes their freedom to the USA, along with our role in WWII.

 

[8236]

Perhaps because the French have ALWAYS been self-righteous in their views.

As for the Germans, I myself have always enjoyed the Germans. Many of us vets have at least served SOME time in Germany and I think that, for the most part, most of us agree that during that time we did spend there, the Germans were pretty cool to us. Sure, the "outlook" has changed and they are not as friendly now, but I have no first hand experience of Germans being rude to me because I am American, but I have had experiences with French that have been rude to me for that reason.

As a Brit (that lived on the continent(Europe) for years), I have had plenty of experiences of snotty Frenchmen aswell. On the other hand, plenty of experience of arrogant yanks, as you prob. have of us.
The thing about the French is that they are insecure - just as the Germans and Japs are still 'guilty' in their own minds about WWII. The French are insecure because (of the past) and because they feel they are swimming against a tide of Anglo-Saxon culture and consider themselves as a kind of barrier against that. They feel they have to try and assert themselves on the world stage etc etc. (I bet your laughing now).

I do think American anti-French feeling has become as irrational as the Iraqvasion. All this talk of new-europe/old-europe. Nonsense.
Try 'national leader that agrees with me (G W B)/National leader that doesn't'. Cos as someone above pointed out, the only country in the world that HAD a public in it that ever believed the WMD nonsense reason for invading Iraq was....

Moooh. or is that Mehehehehehe

 

[8236]

Surely I wonder why do I get asked these kind of questions? Why not SE or MB or DK? Never mind Jimnyc, we all know NOT to ask him this kind of question. Is it something I've done? Dang, for the most part here I am minding my own business, just reading and plugging away at some responses.

Well Mr/Ms Number, let me say that I don't HATE the French. I just do not believe they are a US ally, indeed, I believe they are at best a nuisance, at worst an enemy.

Actually, read this: http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10454
and you'll see that my instincts were correct, the French were addressing this nearly 60 years ago.

Germany is a different kettle of fish altogether. I'm not so sure the German people care for US all that much, but their leadership does, Schroeder's pandering campaigning aside. See, even us conservatives are nuanced enough to get the difference.

I presume you saw Josker Fischer's outburst in the presence of his holiness Donald Rumsfeld (good German name btw)

 

[Comrade]

I presume you saw Josker Fischer's outburst in the presence of his holiness Donald Rumsfeld (good German name btw)

I rememer when Germany and Italy got into it with each other... that was juicier than what Germany dared say to the US, lol!

 

[Hobbit]

I do think American anti-French feeling has become as irrational as the Iraqvasion.

I agree, and I fully support the war in Iraq.

I, personally, have never met a frenchman I didn't find to be arrogant and condescending. The last one I met talked to me as if I was incredibly stupid and assumed he was right on all points of politics. He drove me up the wall. I typically find most Brits to be polite, though. Germans come in both kinds. The good ones are typically the ones whose parents and grandparents would have starved in post-war Germany if not for George C. Marshall. I haven't met too many other Europeans, except for one Russian, and he's a nice guy, but a little crazy.

 

[William Joyce]

The French, unfortunately, often don't put on a good show. Some Germans, too. But you have been trained to hate them by Jews, who don't like Germans for obvious reasons and don't like the French because the French won't support Israel. Absent Jewish influence, you'd just think they were quirky, not hateable.

But like it or not, white American, you ARE a European-American.

Read a good one from Lee Atwater the other day: the extra-chromosome conservatives. These are the folks who say, "Yup, gotta hate them Frenchies, duh." Never mind that your ancestors are French and German --- even if you are Irish or British... this is the core of white blood. Be tricked into hating your own blood, and you can be tricked into anything.