Karma

[California Girl]

According to M. Scott Peck, we all grew up with mentally ill parents.
Imagine that, a psychologist that spends his entire life dealing with mentally ill people thinking that all people are mentally ill.

M Scott Peck was a brilliant psychologist. I almost moved to Kentucky to study with him.

One of the most wonderful books he wrote was about what he called, "ordinary evil". Those are the efforts that some people make to break the spirit of others.

He also wrote a book about how to develop a feeling of community among people. He said it occurs when we each share our "brokenness". That means the places where our hearts have been broken and we have found a way to get up again.

Peck had a very expansive view of what mental illness is. You may want to study that a little more to understand him better.

He was a gifted individual who helped many, many people live happier lives.

That explains a lot.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Karma is also and enormous cop out in not taking any responsibility for anything your in life. It is also a way to rationalize your way out of anything and everything without assigning blame or fault.

It is your karma to steal, their karma to be stolen from
It is your karma to be mean, their karma to suffer
it is your karma to be crippled, their karma to take care of you
It is your karma to be miserable, their karma to be happy
Its not your fault, its karma.
You are not responsible, its karma
If it good, its karma
if it is bad, its karma.

You have what Buddhists would call, "wrong view" about karma. Karma is not a cop out or an excuse.

You don't understand karma because you're all about connecting karma judging and punishing, or excuse making. The term karma is misused in our culture.

Karma is like a law of nature. Action/reaction. Cause and effect. It is not about making excuses, or punishing and rewarding.

It is changeable. It cannot be fully understood without a deep understanding of the topic of emptiness.

The law of karma is considered infallible. But in the view of Buddhism, we have lived countless lives, and most of us don't understand what karma we brought in with us, nor how to purify it.

Only the great masters incarnate into human life knowing exactly what karma they have. They sometimes have degrees of prescience and are able to see other peoples karma.

 

[alan1]

According to M. Scott Peck, we all grew up with mentally ill parents.
Imagine that, a psychologist that spends his entire life dealing with mentally ill people thinking that all people are mentally ill.

M Scott Peck was a brilliant psychologist. I almost moved to Kentucky to study with him.

One of the most wonderful books he wrote was about what he called, "ordinary evil". Those are the efforts that some people make to break the spirit of others.

He also wrote a book about how to develop a feeling of community among people. He said it occurs when we each share our "brokenness". That means the places where our hearts have been broken and we have found a way to get up again.

Peck had a very expansive view of what mental illness is. You may want to study that a little more to understand him better.

He was a gifted individual who helped many, many people live happier lives.

Color me cynical, but I think spending the majority of ones time with mentally ill people and then trying to apply that standard to most people is a bit ridiculous.
He didn't study healthy people, he studied unhealthy people. It's like a gynecologist treating prostate cancer.

 

[Sherry]

What goes around comes around, in this life or the next. Doesn't that about sum it up?

That's how my pastor summed it up when we discussed different religions.

 

[Sunshine]

What goes around comes around, in this life or the next. Doesn't that about sum it up?

That's how my pastor summed it up when we discussed different religions.

That's how we want it to be. But in fact many scoundrels have many good things in their lives.

However, overall a positive person will give off positive energy and this will attract positive things into his/her life.

 

[Sky Dancer]

According to M. Scott Peck, we all grew up with mentally ill parents.
Imagine that, a psychologist that spends his entire life dealing with mentally ill people thinking that all people are mentally ill.

M Scott Peck was a brilliant psychologist. I almost moved to Kentucky to study with him.

One of the most wonderful books he wrote was about what he called, "ordinary evil". Those are the efforts that some people make to break the spirit of others.

He also wrote a book about how to develop a feeling of community among people. He said it occurs when we each share our "brokenness". That means the places where our hearts have been broken and we have found a way to get up again.

Peck had a very expansive view of what mental illness is. You may want to study that a little more to understand him better.

He was a gifted individual who helped many, many people live happier lives.

Color me cynical, but I think spending the majority of ones time with mentally ill people and then trying to apply that standard to most people is a bit ridiculous.
He didn't study healthy people, he studied unhealthy people. It's like a gynecologist treating prostate cancer.

First of all, I never heard that about M Scott Peck. I would like to see the source of your claim.

You take as the totality of a person's life and work one statement with no resource to see what he meant in context. M Scott Peck was a Christian.

Here is a quote from him:

"I located the source of psychiatric ills in the conscious mind, rather than the unconscious. The previous view, the Freudian sort of view, had been that the unconscious was filled with all these bad feelings, and angry thoughts, sexy thoughts, and whatnot. And that was where psychiatric, psychological illness originated. When in fact, the real question is why those things, which were obvious, were in the unconscious, rather than the conscious mind. The answer was that it was a conscious mind that didn’t want to face certain truths, and pushed this stuff into the unconscious. But the problem is with a rejecting consciousness in which we simply don’t like to think about things….Over the years I came to believe, and again I’m leaving out the biological aspects, but that psychological disorders are all disorders of thinking."
http://www.mscottpeck.com/html/conversations.html

My favorite book by M Scott Peck is People of the Lie: The Hope for Healing Human Evil


Peck did study mental health. He said, mental health is “an ongoing process of dedication to reality at all costs.”

 

[Sky Dancer]

"Truly evil people, actively rather than passively avoid extending themselves. They will take any action in their power to protect their own laziness, to preserve the integrity of their sick self. Rather than nurturing others, they will actually destroy others in this cause. If necessary, they will even kill to escape the pain of their own spiritual growth. As the integrity of their sick self is threatened by the spiritual health of those around them, they will seek by all manner of means to crush and demolish the spiritual health that may exist near them.

I define evil, then, as the exercise of political power -- that is, the imposition of one’s will upon others by overt or covert coercion -- in order to avoid extending one’s self for the purpose of nurturing spiritual growth. Ordinary laziness is nonlove; evil is antilove."


M. Scott Peck Psychiatrist & author

 

[FactFinder]

Karma is not about judgement, sin or punishment and reward. It's simply cause and effect.

I didn't say anything about judgement or sin in response to your post. Cause & effect has a distinct and definite correlation with punishment and reward. You are tootin' out of your pipe to state otherwise. Oh and cause and effect is anything but "simple"

 

[Tank]

 

[SW2SILVER]

Sky, you are not a Buddhist, you are just looking to rationalize what you are doing because you don’t understand it. Or, maybe that is what a Buddhist IS.

 

[Ropey]

I'm starting this thread because a poster indicated that she was interested in discussing the meaning of karma.

To a Buddhist. karma means, "cause and effect". It has nothing to do with pre-determination, destiny, or punishment and reward.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmcA9LIIXWw]Culture Club - Karma Chameleon - YouTube[/ame]

 

[MarcATL]

You have what Buddhists would call, "wrong view" about karma. Karma is not a cop out or an excuse.

You don't understand karma because you're all about connecting karma judging and punishing, or excuse making. The term karma is misused in our culture.

Karma is like a law of nature. Action/reaction. Cause and effect. It is not about making excuses, or punishing and rewarding.

It is changeable. It cannot be fully understood without a deep understanding of the topic of emptiness.

The law of karma is considered infallible. But in the view of Buddhism, we have lived countless lives, and most of us don't understand what karma we brought in with us, nor how to purify it.

Only the great masters incarnate into human life knowing exactly what karma they have. They sometimes have degrees of prescience and are able to see other peoples karma.

Do you believe in reincarnation Sky?

 

[Sky Dancer]

You have what Buddhists would call, "wrong view" about karma. Karma is not a cop out or an excuse.

You don't understand karma because you're all about connecting karma judging and punishing, or excuse making. The term karma is misused in our culture.

Karma is like a law of nature. Action/reaction. Cause and effect. It is not about making excuses, or punishing and rewarding.

It is changeable. It cannot be fully understood without a deep understanding of the topic of emptiness.

The law of karma is considered infallible. But in the view of Buddhism, we have lived countless lives, and most of us don't understand what karma we brought in with us, nor how to purify it.

Only the great masters incarnate into human life knowing exactly what karma they have. They sometimes have degrees of prescience and are able to see other peoples karma.

Do you believe in reincarnation Sky?

No, I don't believe in reincarnation, I do believe in rebirth. Reincarnation is the idea that the personality transfers from lifetime to lifetime, say, the person who thinks they were Marie Antoinette in a past life. I don't believe in that.

What goes from life to life is consciousness and karma. JMO.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Sky, you are not a Buddhist, you are just looking to rationalize what you are doing because you don’t understand it. Or, maybe that is what a Buddhist IS.

I started this thread because a poster suggested that she is interested in discussing the topic.

I'm offering what I know from long time study of Buddhism.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Karma is not about judgement, sin or punishment and reward. It's simply cause and effect.

I didn't say anything about judgement or sin in response to your post. Cause & effect has a distinct and definite correlation with punishment and reward. You are tootin' out of your pipe to state otherwise. Oh and cause and effect is anything but "simple"

Cause and effect is neutral. It does not correlate with punishment and reward. If you plant apple seeds you will grow an apple tree, not an oak tree. You won't grow an apple tree out of reward or punishment.

 

[Tank]

If you plant apple seeds you will grow an apple tree, not an oak tree. You won't grow an apple tree out of reward or punishment.

Shouldn't your name be more like High Dancer?

We are talking about brutal vicious animals, you can't just sprinkle some magic Budda fairy dust on this.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gpUvGKVUxU&feature=fvwrel]The story of Dylan groene - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Mr. H.]

Here's why I so love the show "My Name Is Earl"...

When I was a Catholic kid there was no such thing as Karma- only the wrath of God. Do this don't do that, can't you read the signs? Lest I be smitten by the hand from Heaven. Paranoia, self-doubt, neuroticism, low self-esteem. Those were the lessons du jour. Subjugate yourself to the great Eye In The Sky.

The thing about the Karma concept for me anyway is- just don't shit on nature or humankind- for the sake of it, and with ilregard to future benefit. And keep on keepin' on. Let the chips fall where they may.

So back to Earl- this guy has such a naive attitude with such good intentions. He's out to right previous wrongs and most often (if not always) fucks up in the process. Yet those foibles end up being insignificant and everyone goes home happy.

Back to the real world- cut your losses, mend your fences, look forward and pay forward. Don't manicure the bullshit in life and keep your focus on the big picture.

Nuff sed.

 

[nitroz]

Cause and Effect = Consequences.

And it never happens if you don't believe in it.




If something happens, get up, brush yourself off, and keep on moving.

 

[editec]

I believe in cause and effect of course.

If you want to call that Karma, so be it.

The universe is neither just nor unjust.

It merely is what it is.

 

[Sunshine]

If you plant apple seeds you will grow an apple tree, not an oak tree. You won't grow an apple tree out of reward or punishment.

Shouldn't your name be more like High Dancer?

We are talking about brutal vicious animals, you can't just sprinkle some magic Budda fairy dust on this.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gpUvGKVUxU&feature=fvwrel]The story of Dylan groene - YouTube[/ame]

You are correct. As much as we WANT to believe there is real justice in the Universe, often times there isn't. Many times we WANT to believe there will be real justice in the next life, but we have no proof there is.