K-12 Public Education - the Elephant in the Room

DGS49

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Apr 12, 2012
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Pennsylvania’s state school funding disparities and irrationalities - Allegheny Institute for Public Policy

As a Pennsylvania taxpayer, I have an interest in how tax dollars are spent and the benefits that are derived from these expenditures. The Allegheny Institute sends out periodic bulletins on that subject, of which the linked article is one.

Grossly summarizing the conclusion of the article, higher spending in K-12 education has almost no effect on academic results. The highest spending occurs in rich, suburban school districts ("white" districts) and in urban school districts (mainly "Black" districts). In the white districts, the funding is primarily raised through local real estate taxes, and in the Black districts, the funding is contributed mainly by the State and Federal governments (Federal spending is not included in the linked study, but it is distributed approximately the same as with the State funds).

The Elephant in this particular Room is that academic achievement (measured by test scores) can be tracked in an almost linear fashion - at least in Pennsylvania - by how "white" or "Black" the school district is. Money spent (per pupil) has almost nothing to do with it. This leads to the unavoidable conclusion that throwing more money at Black districts in the hope of improving academic achievement is a waste of taxpayer money.

At least that is the case under current pedagogical philosophies.

But one can always find examples of Black urban schools that do extraordinarily well. Invariably, they are schools that are more structured, have better discipline, and are more demanding than a typical public school. They have dress codes, behavior codes, some even have school uniforms. Faculty members are more likely to be members of minority groups as well, especially the Principals and administrators.

They are often 'Charter' schools, which teachers' unions abhor, because their faculty are not required to be union members.

When will our society be mature enough to recognize and act on the knowledge that greater structure is required in "inner city" schools, if we really expect to bring schools to parity? When will we tell the teachers' unions to go fuck off - we'll run the schools in the manner best suited to education, and not to keep the faculty happy?
 
Pennsylvania’s state school funding disparities and irrationalities - Allegheny Institute for Public Policy

As a Pennsylvania taxpayer, I have an interest in how tax dollars are spent and the benefits that are derived from these expenditures. The Allegheny Institute sends out periodic bulletins on that subject, of which the linked article is one.

Grossly summarizing the conclusion of the article, higher spending in K-12 education has almost no effect on academic results. The highest spending occurs in rich, suburban school districts ("white" districts) and in urban school districts (mainly "Black" districts). In the white districts, the funding is primarily raised through local real estate taxes, and in the Black districts, the funding is contributed mainly by the State and Federal governments (Federal spending is not included in the linked study, but it is distributed approximately the same as with the State funds).

The Elephant in this particular Room is that academic achievement (measured by test scores) can be tracked in an almost linear fashion - at least in Pennsylvania - by how "white" or "Black" the school district is. Money spent (per pupil) has almost nothing to do with it. This leads to the unavoidable conclusion that throwing more money at Black districts in the hope of improving academic achievement is a waste of taxpayer money.

At least that is the case under current pedagogical philosophies.

But one can always find examples of Black urban schools that do extraordinarily well. Invariably, they are schools that are more structured, have better discipline, and are more demanding than a typical public school. They have dress codes, behavior codes, some even have school uniforms. Faculty members are more likely to be members of minority groups as well, especially the Principals and administrators.

They are often 'Charter' schools, which teachers' unions abhor, because their faculty are not required to be union members.

When will our society be mature enough to recognize and act on the knowledge that greater structure is required in "inner city" schools, if we really expect to bring schools to parity? When will we tell the teachers' unions to go fuck off - we'll run the schools in the manner best suited to education, and not to keep the faculty happy?
Urban schools that do exceptionally well have high expectations, yes. They also have a lot of support services you don't see that help students deal with challenges in their lives. Or the school is a magnet school, and they admit the highest achieving students.
 
Pennsylvania’s state school funding disparities and irrationalities - Allegheny Institute for Public Policy

As a Pennsylvania taxpayer, I have an interest in how tax dollars are spent and the benefits that are derived from these expenditures. The Allegheny Institute sends out periodic bulletins on that subject, of which the linked article is one.

Grossly summarizing the conclusion of the article, higher spending in K-12 education has almost no effect on academic results. The highest spending occurs in rich, suburban school districts ("white" districts) and in urban school districts (mainly "Black" districts). In the white districts, the funding is primarily raised through local real estate taxes, and in the Black districts, the funding is contributed mainly by the State and Federal governments (Federal spending is not included in the linked study, but it is distributed approximately the same as with the State funds).

The Elephant in this particular Room is that academic achievement (measured by test scores) can be tracked in an almost linear fashion - at least in Pennsylvania - by how "white" or "Black" the school district is. Money spent (per pupil) has almost nothing to do with it. This leads to the unavoidable conclusion that throwing more money at Black districts in the hope of improving academic achievement is a waste of taxpayer money.

At least that is the case under current pedagogical philosophies.

But one can always find examples of Black urban schools that do extraordinarily well. Invariably, they are schools that are more structured, have better discipline, and are more demanding than a typical public school. They have dress codes, behavior codes, some even have school uniforms. Faculty members are more likely to be members of minority groups as well, especially the Principals and administrators.

They are often 'Charter' schools, which teachers' unions abhor, because their faculty are not required to be union members.

When will our society be mature enough to recognize and act on the knowledge that greater structure is required in "inner city" schools, if we really expect to bring schools to parity? When will we tell the teachers' unions to go fuck off - we'll run the schools in the manner best suited to education, and not to keep the faculty happy?
Urban schools that do exceptionally well have high expectations, yes. They also have a lot of support services you don't see that help students deal with challenges in their lives. Or the school is a magnet school, and they admit the highest achieving students.


You are both right.

DGS49 is correct, more money put towards education, after a certain point, does not equal better outcomes.

This has been proven in other areas of the nation. It is a diminishing returns scenario. At a certain point, once facilities are maintained, adequate teachers per student ratio is provided, salaries are provided and resources are there, more money can not raise test scores.

It is the home life and community that is necessary, parental involvement and security of the student that is necessary to ensure success.

I believe I once saw a study or read somewhere that the greatest indicator of success is how involved the parents are in the child's well being, so in this case, Old lady is correct, those parents who have the where- with-all to seek out a high performing school with more rigid standards are going to expect more from their children, giving them a secure and stable home environment.

IN the end, there is only so much a school can do.

We expect too much, in fact, miracles from our education system, when, in the end, it is our families that bear the responsibility to raise well educated and polite kids, NOT the teachers or schools.
 
As I imply above...find out what works and replicate it.
When broken homes have children, how do you replicate and force a stable environment on them for the sake of the children?

Require the dad's to stay with the mom, hold down a job and be a decent human being instead of going to prison?

:abgg2q.jpg:
 
As I imply above...find out what works and replicate it.
When broken homes have children, how do you replicate and force a stable environment on them for the sake of the children?

Require the dad's to stay with the mom, hold down a job and be a decent human being instead of going to prison?

:abgg2q.jpg:
Impossible. That is the BIGGEST reason for educational failure in the cities. (Maybe not dads being home, but an unstable environment at home with little or no support for learning.)
 
As I imply above...find out what works and replicate it.
When broken homes have children, how do you replicate and force a stable environment on them for the sake of the children?

Require the dad's to stay with the mom, hold down a job and be a decent human being instead of going to prison?

:abgg2q.jpg:
Impossible. That is the BIGGEST reason for educational failure in the cities. (Maybe not dads being home, but an unstable environment at home with little or no support for learning.)

Maybe not necessarily biological dads, but definitely two parents, of any sort, a father figure, even if it is a step-dad or another support figure like a lesbian filling that role. Naturally, the biological family unit is the ideal.

Why is your agenda and your feelings clouding your willingness to accept the science on this?



The impact of family structure on the health of children: Effects of divorce*
"Nearly three decades of research evaluating the impact of family structure on the health and well-being of children demonstrates that children living with their married, biological parents consistently have better physical, emotional, and academic well-being. Pediatricians and society should promote the family structure that has the best chance of producing healthy children. The best scientific literature to date suggests that, with the exception of parents faced with unresolvable marital violence, children fare better when parents work at maintaining the marriage. Consequently, society should make every effort to support healthy marriages and to discourage married couples from divorcing."
The impact of family structure on the health of children: Effects of divorce

Why dads matter, according to science


Face it, your agenda of women's liberation is bad for families and children. You DGAF.
 

Wow, you are right.

The author wants to do everything she can to blame the institution. Clearly.

I think she might have an agenda? Perhaps there might be a wee bit of truth to what she says, I could consider some of what she is writing, if she had just a tiny bit of clue about reality. But seriously? She doesn't even consider the obvious. When the liberal hero of the U.S. TELLS you what the problem is, and you don't listen?

smdh.


“Go into any inner-city neighborhood, and folks will tell you that government alone can’t teach kids to learn.They know that parents have to parent, that children can’t achieve unless we raise their expectations and turn off the television sets and eradicate the slander that says a black youth with a book is acting white.”
—Barack Obama, Keynote Address, Democratic National Convention, 2004


“Acting White”
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The social price paid by the best and brightest minority students
"Acting White" - Education Next

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