Justice Very, Very Delayed

[Madeline]

In my lifetime, terrible crimes were committed and never addressed. With the murder trial of former Alabama state trooper James Bonard Fowler for the murder of civil rights protestor Jimmie Lee Jackson in 1965 set to begin jury selection today, one less injustice remains unaddressed.

In the Deep South of 1965, segregation was the law of the land. Anyone who protested against the system was met with violence.

Not far from Selma, Ala., in Marion, a group of African Americans was gathering in a church at night. Alabama state troopers, including James Bonard Fowler, were called in to break up the meeting, and, using billy clubs, they began beating protesters, including 26-year-old Jimmie Lee Jackson.

Jackson fled to Mack's Cafe, and some witnesses said he was being beaten as he tried to protect his mother and grandfather.

But Fowler, now 77, said he acted in self-defense. He shot Jackson in the stomach but claims the protester was trying to take away his gun.

Eight days later, Jackson, a Vietnam War veteran, died at a local hospital, and the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. traveled to Alabama to speak at the funeral.

"He was murdered by the timidity of a federal government that can spend millions of dollars a day to keep troops in South Vietnam and cannot protect the lives of its own citizens seeking the right to vote," King said.

More than 20 civil-rights-era cases have come to trial since 1994, including the successful prosecution of James Ford Seale in Mississippi for the murder of two black teens, and the convictions of Thomas Blanton and Bobby Cherry for the bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham.

Doug Jones, the former U.S. attorney in Alabama who prosecuted the church bombing cases, says Jackson's death stands out among other civil-rights-era cases.

"This is not just a random Klansman who bombed the 16th Street Baptist Church," Jones says. "Here you got a state trooper, law enforcement officer, called out to keep order. That gives a dynamic to this case that's not present in the normal civil rights cold cases."

Jackson's death galvanized civil rights leaders. Just days later, activists marched from Selma to Montgomery, and the police brutality during that march, known as Bloody Sunday, ultimately led to the 1965 Voting Rights Act.

The accussed.....

Jury Selection Begins For Civil-Rights Cold Case : NPR

What are your thoughts on trials that take place decades after the crime occurred?

 

[goldcatt]

Difficult I'm sure, but in this case absolutely necessary if the evidence can be assembled. The families of those murdered to protect Jim Crow deserve closure. The families of any person murdered for any reason deserve closure. Git 'er done!

 

[Madeline]

It is a disgrace this took 45 years to bring to trial, IMO. The only thing that would be worse is never trying it at all.

 

[goldcatt]

You know why it wasn't brought to trial immediately, Maddy. After a certain period of time attitudes change, but there was probably an unwillingness to spend the resources on it and frankly they probably didn't want the publicity to raise old memories. Then they may have doubted their ability to get a conviction. Now that somebody else has gone first, they're jumping on the bandwagon. That's the nature of the beast.

I don't care why they're doing it, frankly. As long as they do it.

 

[Mini 14]

Fowler will walk. While I tend to believe Fowler's account of the events (that Jackson was trying to grab Fowler's firearm), we will never know the truth. Too many of the witnesses and principals have died.

Our justice system has been broken for decades. This is just another example of it.

 

[goldcatt]

Fowler will walk. While I tend to believe Fowler's account of the events (that Jackson was trying to grab Fowler's firearm), we will never know the truth. Too many of the witnesses and principals have died.

Our justice system has been broken for decades. This is just another example of it.

Don't be so sure they'll never get a conviction. No prosecutor worth his political salt is going to bring this kind of high profile, no holds barred case without evidence in hand.

There are problems with the justice system, it's made and run by humans after all and nothing we do is without its flaws. But similar cases have been brought recently under the same conditions and after the same amount of time and been successful. I'd sit back and watch, you just might be surprised.

 

[Madeline]

Fowler will walk. While I tend to believe Fowler's account of the events (that Jackson was trying to grab Fowler's firearm), we will never know the truth. Too many of the witnesses and principals have died.

Our justice system has been broken for decades. This is just another example of it.

Don't be so sure they'll never get a conviction. No prosecutor worth his political salt is going to bring this kind of high profile, no holds barred case without evidence in hand.

There are problems with the justice system, it's made and run by humans after all and nothing we do is without its flaws. But similar cases have been brought recently under the same conditions and after the same amount of time and been successful. I'd sit back and watch, you just might be surprised.

In the other cases, the defendant had confessed to the crime to someone or a co-conspirator had come forward to give evidence against him. I wonder what they can have on Fowler apart from the bare facts: Fowler was the aggressor, he pursued the victim and the victim was gut shot whilst unarmed.

 

[Mini 14]

I'm not saying he can't be convicted, I just give very little probability that a guilty verdict can be returned based on the evidence that still exists.

Unlike Maddy, I wasn't there, and don't know all the facts first-hand.

But I know the jury pool.

Fowler will walk because murder must be proven not by a preponderance, but beyond a reasonable doubt. Fowler says Jackson reached for his weapon. It is going to be hard to prove that isn't true, 45 years later, when the two star witnesses have already been laid to rest.

It will all hinge on Maddy's testimony, I'm guessing.

 

[goldcatt]

Fowler will walk. While I tend to believe Fowler's account of the events (that Jackson was trying to grab Fowler's firearm), we will never know the truth. Too many of the witnesses and principals have died.

Our justice system has been broken for decades. This is just another example of it.

Don't be so sure they'll never get a conviction. No prosecutor worth his political salt is going to bring this kind of high profile, no holds barred case without evidence in hand.

There are problems with the justice system, it's made and run by humans after all and nothing we do is without its flaws. But similar cases have been brought recently under the same conditions and after the same amount of time and been successful. I'd sit back and watch, you just might be surprised.

In the other cases, the defendant had confessed to the crime to someone or a co-conspirator had come forward to give evidence against him. I wonder what they can have on Fowler apart from the bare facts: Fowler was the aggressor, he pursued the victim and the victim was gut shot whilst unarmed.

If they're in voir dire now we shouldn't have to wait long to find out. But I can't imagine any prosecutor who wants to be reelected bringing this case without having something up his sleeve. It will be interesting to see what it is.

Sounds like there may be a confession at that, on re-reading the OP. If he's admitting to doing the shooting but claiming self-defense, you have an admission. Now all you need is the evidence to defeat the affirmative defense. Wanna bet some of the people in the diner that night are still alive, kicking and cooperating? Or gave affidavits at the time that can be brought into evidence, or both.

 

[L.K.Eder]

a vietnam war veteran?

 

[goldcatt]

I'm not saying he can't be convicted, I just give very little probability that a guilty verdict can be returned based on the evidence that still exists.

Unlike Maddy, I wasn't there, and don't know all the facts first-hand.

But I know the jury pool.

Fowler will walk because murder must be proven not by a preponderance, but beyond a reasonable doubt. Fowler says Jackson reached for his weapon. It is going to be hard to prove that isn't true, 45 years later, when the two star witnesses have already been laid to rest.

It will all hinge on Maddy's testimony, I'm guessing.

Fowler's already admitted to homicide. The question is whether it was excused or criminal in nature. Self defense is an affirmative defense, meaning it's up to the defense to prove it. The State has no burden of proof in affirmative defenses, although of course as the "defense" in that particular matter they will put forth evidence to rebut it. The side making the claim takes the affirmative and must prove their position. That's the way it works.

It's going to be interesting. I'll be watching.

 

[Madeline]

a vietnam war veteran?

The victim, not the killer. The US was in Vietnam by 1955, at the latest.

Vietnam War Timeline : Vietnam War Statistics

 

[L.K.Eder]

a vietnam war veteran?

The victim, not the killer. The US was in Vietnam by 1955, at the latest.

Vietnam War Timeline : Vietnam War Statistics

i know the timeline of the vietnam war.

that's why i asked. and because i cannot actually confirm the vietnam war veteran status of the victim. not even by the very lax standards set in the seventies.

but it is not really relevant to the case.

 

[Madeline]

a vietnam war veteran?

The victim, not the killer. The US was in Vietnam by 1955, at the latest.

Vietnam War Timeline : Vietnam War Statistics

i know the timeline of the vietnam war.

that's why i asked. and because i cannot actually confirm the vietnam war veteran status of the victim. not even by the very lax standards set in the seventies.

but it is not really relevant to the case.

O, sorry. Few people I know realize the US was sending troops to Vietnam before Nixon's administration.

How would you confirm the vet status of any person, L.K.Eder?

 

[L.K.Eder]

The victim, not the killer. The US was in Vietnam by 1955, at the latest.

Vietnam War Timeline : Vietnam War Statistics

i know the timeline of the vietnam war.

that's why i asked. and because i cannot actually confirm the vietnam war veteran status of the victim. not even by the very lax standards set in the seventies.

but it is not really relevant to the case.

O, sorry. Few people I know realize the US was sending troops to Vietnam before Nixon's administration.

How would you confirm the vet status of any person, L.K.Eder?

first step i did was to try to find another source that claims he was a vietnam war veteran.

i could only find another source that said he was an army veteran.

the story of this guy has enough impact without embellishment or emphasis on a vietnam war veteran status.

if i really tried to confirm his status, i'd look for public military databases.

no idea if they exist.

 

[goldcatt]

I'm not familiar with Alabama law, but can you even meet the elements of self-defense under the facts Fowler claims?

I mean, think about it. Fowler was the aggressor, chasing an unarmed young man and threatening his life with a loaded weapon. If some asshole is chasing you with a loaded gun and you have a chance to get a hand on it, that would be self-defense on your part not the perp's. The perp gets whatever is coming to him and eats it with a smile.

Thinking my way through this I see the odds of conviction getting better and better. Unless Alabama has some bizarre twist to their self-defense laws I don't know about.

 

[Mini 14]

There will be no trial.

Fowler just plead guilty to misdemeanor 2nd degree manslaughter and will be sentenced to 6 months in the Geneva County Jail. Likely that sentence will be reduced or commuted by outgoing Governor.

Fowler pleads in Civil Rights era shooting death - WSFA 12 News Montgomery, AL |

 

[goldcatt]

Well that's anti-climactic. Thanks for ruining my moment of bloodlust.

 

[Mini 14]

He is free for now, but must turn himself in by December 1 to begin his sentence. There is speculation that there will be some "deal-making" between now and then to allow Fowler to either serve no jail time, or be released before Christmas.

 

[ConHog]

I'm not familiar with Alabama law, but can you even meet the elements of self-defense under the facts Fowler claims?

I mean, think about it. Fowler was the aggressor, chasing an unarmed young man and threatening his life with a loaded weapon. If some asshole is chasing you with a loaded gun and you have a chance to get a hand on it, that would be self-defense on your part not the perp's. The perp gets whatever is coming to him and eats it with a smile.

Thinking my way through this I see the odds of conviction getting better and better. Unless Alabama has some bizarre twist to their self-defense laws I don't know about.

I think a case COULD be made that it was accidental discharge, BUT that would be a tough sell, because without the intent of the person who brought the gun to the dance, there could have been no accidental discharge.

Either way, the quick plea deal tells me the DA simply wanted this thing off the books.