Just like Vietnam: 8 US Soldiers Killed in Afghan Gunbattle

Discussion in 'Military' started by Sunni Man, Oct 4, 2009.

  1. Sunni Man
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    Sunni Man Diamond Member

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    KABUL (Oct. 4) - Militant fighters streaming from an Afghan village and a mosque attacked a pair of remote outposts near the Pakistani border, killing eight U.S. soldiers and as many as seven Afghan forces in one of the fiercest battles of the eight-year war.

    The Taliban claimed responsibility for the deadliest attack for coalition forces since a similar raid in July 2008 killed nine American soldiers in the same mountainous region known as an al-Qaida haven. The U.S. has already said it plans to pull its soldiers from the isolated area to focus on Afghan population centers.

    The U.S. statement said the attack would not change previously announced plans to leave the area
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    Reminds me of the isolated fire bases that we had in Vietnam. They were continually attacked and over ran with high casualties. Eventually, our strategy changed to abandoing the isolated bases and withdrawing to protect the population centers.

    Is history repeating it's self???
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2009
  2. JW Frogen
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    JW Frogen Gold Member

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    It is nothing like Vietnam, indeed at these casualty rates it would take over half a century to equal one decade in Vietnam.

    Nor do the Taliban have a major superpower sponsoring them as did the North Vietnamese.

    We could fight this war for decades, indeed if we gave up on the nation building aspect, armed any group that simply opposes the Taliban (including opium lords) and augmented with Special Forces air power and predator drones we could fight this war indefinitely.

    It is far better having the Taliban and Al Qaeda fighting in the mountains of Afghanistan, constantly running from attacks, Bin Ladin hiding in caves with his yak powered dialysis machine then just giving up and allowing them to control and entire country, planning terror attacks at their leisure.
     
  3. Sunni Man
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    Sunni Man Diamond Member

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    Reminds me of our failed strategy in Vietnam.

    Where we measured our success/failure by the daily/weekly body count of both sides. :evil:
     
  4. Toome
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    Toome Active Member

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    Gotta agree with JW: one nasty firefight doesn't define an entire war. Combat is decidedly unfair no matter whose side you're on.

    Having said that, I will agree that the similarity with Vietnam can be reduced down to this: why the hell are we still over there? This is a question that needs to be addressed to both administrations. I supported the decision to go over there and get rid of the Taliban and kill as many al Qai'da terrorists as possible. While some folks may not like hearing this, in terms of sheer numbers, we've avenged the 9/11 victims several times over, and we've done so in brutal fashion. I don't have a problem with this. But there's a point of diminishing returns, and I think we've gone beyond that point.

    Militarily, we dominate the terrain over there. Being affiliated with the Taliban or al Qai'da is truly a life-ending experience for anyone over there. Even so, we are not winning the political objectives over there, and that's how Afghanistan is similar to Vietnam.

    I don't know the solution. If I did, then I certainly wouldn't be punching keystrokes on an internet bulletin board, and I'd be a lot richer. What I do know is that we went over there eight years ago, and we're still there. It's not like we're fighting the Soviet Western Group of Forces in the Fulda Gap. This is a rag-tag bunch of amateurs who never attended a military academy, never schooled in military doctrine, never developed a cadre of NCOs and officers to organize for battle. Not saying that this should be easy. But I am saying that it should take over 8 years to figure out how to put the hurt on them.

    And while Bush never figured it out, Obama is a retard by comparison! As much as I hate to say this: if we don't know what the hell we're doing over there, then the smartest thing to do is to pull out even at the risk of joining the long list of superpowers, empires and other nations who historically experienced the same thing in Afghanistan.
     
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  5. Sunni Man
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    Sunni Man Diamond Member

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    The forces opposed to us in afghanistain isn't composed of a "rag-tag bunch of amateurs".

    The have been repelling invaders for several dozen generations and resistence to invaders is embedded in their culture.

    They use the same tactics, and set up ambushes, in the same valleys and mountain passes that their ancestors successfully utitized.
     
  6. Toome
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    From a professional soldier's point of view, they are amateurs. This doesn't mean that we should underestimate their deadliness. That's my fault for using professional terms in a mixed audience.

    By the way, no, they have NOT been using the same tactics as their ancestors. Otherwise, it would be so easy to predict their movements and kill them.

    My point is that it shouldn't take a superpower 8 years to figure out how to defeat an enemy that hasn't been professionally trained and that isn't being sponsored by a professional military (which is how the Soviets were defeated).
     
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  7. Sunni Man
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    Sunni Man Diamond Member

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    As one Vietnam War historian once said, "you can't bomb people back into the stone age; who are already in the stone age".

    Thus the simularity between Vietnam and Afghanistain.

    The people of both countries are extremely culturalistic and nationalistic.

    They will continue to fight any invader, with whatever they have, for as long as it takes; no matter who does or doesn't back them.
     
  8. PeterS
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    PeterS Active Member

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    No, we are dealing with another Afghanistan. The question is whether we can retain popular support. Without it we will make the same exit as the Russians...
     
  9. Sunni Man
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    I don't believe our exit from Afghanistain will be a hasty cut and run like Vietnam.

    Nor, will it be a total and complete withdrawal such as the Russians did.

    I believe we will very slowly draw down our troops to a skeleton force; that will remain for generations.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2009
  10. Zona
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    Zona A guy in ariZONA

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    If we didnt create that damn iraq war (for no damn reason) this was would be said and done.
     

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