Just curious... are you willing to meet the challenge?

[Immanuel]

Think about it and be honest with yourself.

If you are or were (Lord forbid) unemployed, are you willing to meet the challenge?

Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs - Yahoo! News

SAN FRANCISCO – In a tongue-in-cheek call for immigration reform, farm workers are teaming up with comedian Stephen Colbert to challenge unemployed Americans: Come on, take our jobs.

Farm workers are tired of being blamed by politicians and anti-immigrant activists for taking work that should go to Americans and dragging down the economy, said Arturo Rodriguez, the president of the United Farm Workers of America.

So the group is encouraging the unemployed — and any Washington pundits or anti-immigrant activists who want to join them — to apply for the some of thousands of agricultural jobs being posted with state agencies as harvest season begins.

All applicants need to do is fill out an online form under the banner "I want to be a farm worker" at TAKEOURJOBS.ORG, and experienced field hands will train them and connect them to farms.

I am unemployed and I am NOT willing to meet the challenge. My excuse? I have a bad back and there is no way I could survive a day hunched over tomato plants picking tomatoes all day long in the heat, let alone an entire season. That is not even an excuse, it is the truth.

But then I am not one who bitches all day long about illegals taking my jobs either.

I believe that illegals come here illegally because we maintain ridiculously low immigration numbers, we want to pay ridiculously low wages for manual labor, illegals are willing to accept those ridiculously low wages and we can get away with hiring them under the table to provide that labor for us.

No, I am not willing to meet that challenge.

Are you?

Immie

but would you take the challenge IF you were not collecting unemployment? IF you had no money coming in?

you could send one of your children who doesn't have a bad back to pick the tomatoes...no?

No, I would not. Not with my situation today. I'd take a job doing something else like greeting at walmart. "Gardening" is not for me. Put it this way... anything but a weed, sees me coming its way, it just lays over and dies.

As for my kids, wouldn't that be slavery?

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Think about it and be honest with yourself.

If you are or were (Lord forbid) unemployed, are you willing to meet the challenge?

Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs - Yahoo! News

SAN FRANCISCO – In a tongue-in-cheek call for immigration reform, farm workers are teaming up with comedian Stephen Colbert to challenge unemployed Americans: Come on, take our jobs.

Farm workers are tired of being blamed by politicians and anti-immigrant activists for taking work that should go to Americans and dragging down the economy, said Arturo Rodriguez, the president of the United Farm Workers of America.

So the group is encouraging the unemployed — and any Washington pundits or anti-immigrant activists who want to join them — to apply for the some of thousands of agricultural jobs being posted with state agencies as harvest season begins.

All applicants need to do is fill out an online form under the banner "I want to be a farm worker" at TAKEOURJOBS.ORG, and experienced field hands will train them and connect them to farms.

I am unemployed and I am NOT willing to meet the challenge. My excuse? I have a bad back and there is no way I could survive a day hunched over tomato plants picking tomatoes all day long in the heat, let alone an entire season. That is not even an excuse, it is the truth.

But then I am not one who bitches all day long about illegals taking my jobs either.

I believe that illegals come here illegally because we maintain ridiculously low immigration numbers, we want to pay ridiculously low wages for manual labor, illegals are willing to accept those ridiculously low wages and we can get away with hiring them under the table to provide that labor for us.

No, I am not willing to meet that challenge.

Are you?

Immie

My son took up that challenge, summer before last.

He and his homies were picking blueberries and they were so much better at it than the Hatian carpetbagging agricultural workers that the Hatians stuck for more pay...and got fired.

So, will Americans work harder than migrant workers for the same pay?

Hell yes.

That wasn't the question I asked.

Immie

 

[Care4all]

Think about it and be honest with yourself.

If you are or were (Lord forbid) unemployed, are you willing to meet the challenge?

Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs - Yahoo! News



I am unemployed and I am NOT willing to meet the challenge. My excuse? I have a bad back and there is no way I could survive a day hunched over tomato plants picking tomatoes all day long in the heat, let alone an entire season. That is not even an excuse, it is the truth.

But then I am not one who bitches all day long about illegals taking my jobs either.

I believe that illegals come here illegally because we maintain ridiculously low immigration numbers, we want to pay ridiculously low wages for manual labor, illegals are willing to accept those ridiculously low wages and we can get away with hiring them under the table to provide that labor for us.

No, I am not willing to meet that challenge.

Are you?

Immie

but would you take the challenge IF you were not collecting unemployment? IF you had no money coming in?

you could send one of your children who doesn't have a bad back to pick the tomatoes...no?

No, I would not. Not with my situation today. I'd take a job doing something else like greeting at walmart. "Gardening" is not for me. Put it this way... anything but a weed, sees me coming its way, it just lays over and dies.

As for my kids, wouldn't that be slavery?

Immie

hahahahahaha! NOOOOOOOOOOO, that would be work....with pay.

 

[editec]

Think about it and be honest with yourself.

If you are or were (Lord forbid) unemployed, are you willing to meet the challenge?

Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs - Yahoo! News



I am unemployed and I am NOT willing to meet the challenge. My excuse? I have a bad back and there is no way I could survive a day hunched over tomato plants picking tomatoes all day long in the heat, let alone an entire season. That is not even an excuse, it is the truth.

But then I am not one who bitches all day long about illegals taking my jobs either.

I believe that illegals come here illegally because we maintain ridiculously low immigration numbers, we want to pay ridiculously low wages for manual labor, illegals are willing to accept those ridiculously low wages and we can get away with hiring them under the table to provide that labor for us.

No, I am not willing to meet that challenge.

Are you?

Immie

My son took up that challenge, summer before last.

He and his homies were picking blueberries and they were so much better at it than the Hatian carpetbagging agricultural workers that the Hatians stuck for more pay...and got fired.

So, will Americans work harder than migrant workers for the same pay?

Hell yes.

That wasn't the question I asked.

Immie

Nevertheless it addresses the issue your question raised.

Two examples of Americans who more than met that challenge.

Plenty more where they came from, too.

 

[Immanuel]

My son took up that challenge, summer before last.

He and his homies were picking blueberries and they were so much better at it than the Hatian carpetbagging agricultural workers that the Hatians stuck for more pay...and got fired.

So, will Americans work harder than migrant workers for the same pay?

Hell yes.

That wasn't the question I asked.

Immie

Nevertheless it addresses the issue your question raised.

Two examples of Americans who more than met that challenge.

Plenty more where they came from, too.

Oh, I agree there are Americans that will meet the challenge.

There are plenty of Americans that work in the fields now including your son and his homies. However, I think that we, as a nation, encourage the illegals to come and fill the gaps.

Plain and simple, If we didn't, they would not come.

Immie

 

[Care4all]

i would bet that MOST migrant workers are here legally on temporary visas immie.

it's the other areas of work, that most are concerned with, such as construction and landscaping.

I do agree with you, our quotas have been kept too low for mexican immigrants and need to be realistically reformed.

 

[Immanuel]

i would bet that MOST migrant workers are here legally on temporary visas immie.

it's the other areas of work, that most are concerned with, such as construction and landscaping.

I do agree with you, our quotas have been kept too low for mexican immigrants and need to be realistically reformed.

It is easy to point at the illegal immigrants who are being "employed" in the field partly for me, because I live in an area that I can drive just a half hour or so and see people living in ridiculous poverty... not as bad as I have seen in Mexico or Costa Rica, but pretty darned bad. But, other industries have the same problems.

From what I understand the construction industry is one of those areas. Although, I doubt that illegal aliens working in the construction industry are paid quite as poorly as those working in the fields.

They come here because we pay them when they get here. If we don't want them here then we will have to crack down on the people that employ them and I don't foresee that happening anytime soon.

Immie

 

[editec]

That wasn't the question I asked.

Immie

Nevertheless it addresses the issue your question raised.

Two examples of Americans who more than met that challenge.

Plenty more where they came from, too.

Oh, I agree there are Americans that will meet the challenge.

There are plenty of Americans that work in the fields now including your son and his homies. However, I think that we, as a nation, encourage the illegals to come and fill the gaps.

Plain and simple, If we didn't, they would not come.

Immie

No WE don't do it. (well not many of us at least)

Major corporations who hire millions of illegal defintiely do, however.

As do Americans who merely hire workers ad hoc to do clearning and yard work and construction jobs, and small businesses who hire illegals.

Those are the villians in this story, folks.

Not the illegals, but the Americans who give them work.

No work?

They won't come.

 

[Immanuel]

Nevertheless it addresses the issue your question raised.

Two examples of Americans who more than met that challenge.

Plenty more where they came from, too.

Oh, I agree there are Americans that will meet the challenge.

There are plenty of Americans that work in the fields now including your son and his homies. However, I think that we, as a nation, encourage the illegals to come and fill the gaps.

Plain and simple, If we didn't, they would not come.

Immie

No WE don't do it. (well not many of us at least)

Major corporations who hire millions of illegal defintiely do, however.

As do Americans who merely hire workers ad hoc to do clearning and yard work and construction jobs, and small businesses who hire illegals.

Those are the villians in this story, folks.

Not the illegals, but the Americans who give them work.

No work?

They won't come.

That was the "we", I was talking about. Our country, through the employers that hire them, encourage illegals to come here.

And you can even include most of us, who don't hire illegals, in the "we", because we like cheaper products. Products are less expensive when the employers hire illegal aliens because their costs are lower. Consumers conveniently turn a blind eye towards this practice because well, it is cheaper to hire an illegal to mow your lawn than it is to hire a landscaping company that uses only legal workers.

If we as a nation really were concerned about this, WE would put a stop to it. WE would crack down on employers who hired illegal aliens. Make the costs of non-compliance high enough, and those employers are not going to hire illegals, but like becoming fiscally responsible, no one really wants to do that.

Talk is cheap.

Immie

 

[Care4all]

i would bet that MOST migrant workers are here legally on temporary visas immie.

it's the other areas of work, that most are concerned with, such as construction and landscaping.

I do agree with you, our quotas have been kept too low for mexican immigrants and need to be realistically reformed.

It is easy to point at the illegal immigrants who are being "employed" in the field partly for me, because I live in an area that I can drive just a half hour or so and see people living in ridiculous poverty... not as bad as I have seen in Mexico or Costa Rica, but pretty darned bad. But, other industries have the same problems.

From what I understand the construction industry is one of those areas. Although, I doubt that illegal aliens working in the construction industry are paid quite as poorly as those working in the fields.

They come here because we pay them when they get here. If we don't want them here then we will have to crack down on the people that employ them and I don't foresee that happening anytime soon.

Immie

i agree!

 

[Angelhair]

'I do agree with you, our quotas have been kept too low for mexican immigrants and need to be realistically reformed.'

Short of letting ALL of Mexico in here I'm not sure what else this country can do.......Mexico is the country who gets most of the allocated visas......and they just stay, and stay, and stay......a large majority of mexicans are here - legally and illegally.

 

[Care4all]

'I do agree with you, our quotas have been kept too low for mexican immigrants and need to be realistically reformed.'

Short of letting ALL of Mexico in here I'm not sure what else this country can do.......Mexico is the country who gets most of the allocated visas......and they just stay, and stay, and stay......a large majority of mexicans are here - legally and illegally.

I am not certain on what the quotas are angel and whether Mexico receives the most of them....I would like to see a balance in our immigration quota policies and give the people in other countries a fair chance to emigrate here, and NOT give all of these visas to just mexicans.

My grandparents are Italian and emigrated here....they both worked hard once they got here....I would like to see a variety of nationalities, become part of our melting pot legally.

 

[American Horse]

Think about it and be honest with yourself.

If you are or were (Lord forbid) unemployed, are you willing to meet the challenge?

<SNIP>

I am unemployed and I am NOT willing to meet the challenge. My excuse? I have a bad back and there is no way I could survive a day hunched over tomato plants picking tomatoes all day long in the heat, let alone an entire season. That is not even an excuse, it is the truth.

But then I am not one who bitches all day long about illegals taking my jobs either.

I believe that illegals come here illegally because we maintain ridiculously low immigration numbers, we want to pay ridiculously low wages for manual labor, illegals are willing to accept those ridiculously low wages and we can get away with hiring them under the table to provide that labor for us.

No, I am not willing to meet that challenge.

Are you?

Immie

Nor should you. We've seen your qualifications in other posts, so it would be ridiculous for you to take those kinds of jobs. But among other things they are doing: concrete finishing, drywall hanging finishing and even contracting, roofing, siding, block brick and stone masonry, house and apartment framing, working engineering field crews all the while our poorly educated youth are being denied entry level jobs out of high school. These are not mean jobs that anyone but perhaps office types and the like would refuse.

Sadly I have to add to those, our minorities, particularly blacks who find it difficult enough to get a job not getting an opportunity in those fields, pushing their unemployment rates much higher than the white male.

It is a myth that the illegals only pick our fruit, work our fields, mow our grass, take care of our kids, clean our houses, although they do some of that, especially the first two. Lawn care and snow plowing complement each other seasonally and are lucrative work for enterprising Americans. House cleaning is also lucrative for many female entrepreneurs who have talent for organizing common household duties, and see how to charge for their time, thus becoming independent contractors.

 

[American Horse]

Why do we go around and around on this? We have laws; enforce those laws. Send out the people who can identify the business people who hire illegals and fine them some punitive amount for each and every incident. Make the fine high enough; say $1,000 for each illegal and again for each day the violation persists. Put them through the procedural mill so that it's not worth it for them to keep it up.

Using illegals does not lower the cost for any product or service sufficiently to make it worth the grief. The prices we pay don't come down as much as the employers are enabled to stuff their pockets.

Law mowing is used as a prime example, but it doesn't wash. I can get my lawn mowed by a competitive minded "native" for $20. ( I also have the option of mowing it in an hour earning $20/per hour) No crew of illegals is going to lower that price significantly. IT's a FARCE.

 

[Immanuel]

Think about it and be honest with yourself.

If you are or were (Lord forbid) unemployed, are you willing to meet the challenge?

<SNIP>

I am unemployed and I am NOT willing to meet the challenge. My excuse? I have a bad back and there is no way I could survive a day hunched over tomato plants picking tomatoes all day long in the heat, let alone an entire season. That is not even an excuse, it is the truth.

But then I am not one who bitches all day long about illegals taking my jobs either.

I believe that illegals come here illegally because we maintain ridiculously low immigration numbers, we want to pay ridiculously low wages for manual labor, illegals are willing to accept those ridiculously low wages and we can get away with hiring them under the table to provide that labor for us.

No, I am not willing to meet that challenge.

Are you?

Immie

Nor should you. We've seen your qualifications in other posts, so it would be ridiculous for you to take those kinds of jobs. But among other things they are doing: concrete finishing, drywall hanging finishing and even contracting, roofing, siding, block brick and stone masonry, house and apartment framing, working engineering field crews all the while our poorly educated youth are being denied entry level jobs out of high school. These are not mean jobs that anyone but perhaps office types and the like would refuse.

Sadly I have to add to those, our minorities, particularly blacks who find it difficult enough to get a job not getting an opportunity in those fields, pushing their unemployment rates much higher than the white male.

It is a myth that the illegals only pick our fruit, work our fields, mow our grass, take care of our kids, clean our houses, although they do some of that, especially the first two. Lawn care and snow plowing complement each other seasonally and are lucrative work for enterprising Americans. House cleaning is also lucrative for many female entrepreneurs who have talent for organizing common household duties, and see how to charge for their time, thus becoming independent contractors.

You probably have not made it all the way through the thread on this, but I have made it clear that I understand this. It is not just field workers. For me they are easy to point to because of where I live and quite frankly they live in the most deplorable conditions I have ever seen in the U.S. However, I have never been in the worst parts of our inner cities and I know or at least have been told that it is pretty bad there as well.

The proper balance would be that we would fill all positions that Americans are willing to take and then allow immigrants to come fill those positions. Logistically though that is impossible to achieve.

Immie

 

[Angelhair]

'I do agree with you, our quotas have been kept too low for mexican immigrants and need to be realistically reformed.'

Short of letting ALL of Mexico in here I'm not sure what else this country can do.......Mexico is the country who gets most of the allocated visas......and they just stay, and stay, and stay......a large majority of mexicans are here - legally and illegally.

I am not certain on what the quotas are angel and whether Mexico receives the most of them....I would like to see a balance in our immigration quota policies and give the people in other countries a fair chance to emigrate here, and NOT give all of these visas to just mexicans.

My grandparents are Italian and emigrated here....they both worked hard once they got here....I would like to see a variety of nationalities, become part of our melting pot legally.

In agreement........

 

[American Horse]

Nor should you. We've seen your qualifications in other posts, so it would be ridiculous for you to take those kinds of jobs. But among other things they are doing: concrete finishing, drywall hanging finishing and even contracting, roofing, siding, block brick and stone masonry, house and apartment framing, working engineering field crews all the while our poorly educated youth are being denied entry level jobs out of high school. These are not mean jobs that anyone but perhaps office types and the like would refuse.

Sadly I have to add to those, our minorities, particularly blacks who find it difficult enough to get a job not getting an opportunity in those fields, pushing their unemployment rates much higher than the white male.

It is a myth that the illegals only pick our fruit, work our fields, mow our grass, take care of our kids, clean our houses, although they do some of that, especially the first two. Lawn care and snow plowing complement each other seasonally and are lucrative work for enterprising Americans. House cleaning is also lucrative for many female entrepreneurs who have talent for organizing common household duties, and see how to charge for their time, thus becoming independent contractors.

You probably have not made it all the way through the thread on this, but I have made it clear that I understand this. It is not just field workers. For me they are easy to point to because of where I live and quite frankly they live in the most deplorable conditions I have ever seen in the U.S. However, I have never been in the worst parts of our inner cities and I know or at least have been told that it is pretty bad there as well.

The proper balance would be that we would fill all positions that Americans are willing to take and then allow immigrants to come fill those positions. Logistically though that is impossible to achieve.

Immie

Actually it is logistically possible. We have to provide incentives for people to return, and then let Americans compete for the same work that is in ever increasing proportions going to the illegals.

There is a strong emotion to not offend them by singling them out. That is understandable. The argument goes, too, that we'll send them all back, maybe loaded into boxcars (that's the rhetorical imagery). We don't have to send any of them back, except for those who commit crimes other than being here. We can create a situation in which they will go back on their own, and those who are willing to take actual jobs Americans are unwilling to do can be systemized, like work the fields, picking certain crops, and perhaps some others, can be arranged practically and legally.

If we concentrated on the business that employed them, an illegal act which is not too hard to focus on, then the work would dry up. Exceptions could certainly be allowed for agricultural work for one. That work should be unionized so that they get fair wages or they would strike with damaging costs to those who failed to deal fairly, and provide them good conditions.

It is reasonable for an OSHA inspector (or other agent of state or national government) to inspect all work sites in areas where it is logical to assume that unscrupulous business people are breaking the law in this regard; not so likely in Maine or Minnesota, much more likely in border states.

ALL ID's of every individual could be checked for validity. All of them that fail the validity test would create a civil fine for the employer. We do not have to take any action against the workers, unless they have a criminal record which could discovered forthwith.

We need to make the fine low enough that there is an expectation that the enforcement will be universal. If the fine is too high enforcement will be lax, and we cannot tolerate that. I've mentioned a thousand dollars per instance, and that is piled on for every day the violation continues. The fines could be reduced to 10% (or 20%) of the citation if the "employer" does not continue the violation beyond the first day, or fifth day or whatever reinspection time works out for available manpower.

In this system the employer is required to sign an agreement to quit the illegal hiring, with a reinstatement of the original fine, or a greater one if there are violations in the future. In this way the criminal-employer has the option to ameliorate his own punishment, but takes himself out of the game in the future.

At the same time the employer signs the agreement, he would be required to sign away any right to an attorney in the specific violation. Failing that he can expect himself to come up against the full legal force of the law, the state, or the feds.

Processing criminal-employers is a lot quicker and a better situation to control than processing illegals.

I have described the system OHSA employs when it comes on job-sites and encounters violations. The business ceases operation during the inspection, violations are tallied and explained, the fines are announced with options (immediate correction), and the fines can be knocked down from an original ($2,000 in my own case) to ten percent when agreement of compliance is assured by the business owner.

An announcement of such a policy, and complete randomness of inspections would maximize the limited personnel available for inspections. The cost/benefit ratio would be unmatched by any other method, including wall, fences, and National Guard people taken away from regular civilian employment.

The word would go back to Mexico of the new enforcement practice and new arrivals would be staunched. The people who worked the fields would simply go back to the old ways of coming across seasonally, and returning, or applying for citizenship as an option, since they would have a legal presence here anyway.

 

[Angelhair]

I am not certain on what the quotas are angel and whether Mexico receives the most of them....

April 23, 2010
Green card activity, 2009

The Department of Homeland Security reported on green card activity in 2009, in the process providing a succinct overview of green cards. Green cards are given to legal permanent residents. In 2009, a total of 1,130,818 persons became LPRs of the United States. The majority of new LPRs (59%) already lived in the United States when they were granted lawful permanent residence. Nearly two-thirds were granted permanent resident status based on a family relationship with a U.S. citizen or legal permanent resident of the United States. The leading countries of birth of new LPRs were Mexico (15%), China (6%), and the Philippines (5%).
A legal permanent resident (LPR) or &#8220;green card&#8221; recipient is defined by immigration law as a person who has been granted lawful permanent residence in the United States. Permanent resident status confers certain rights and responsibilities. For example, LPRs may live and work permanently anywhere in the United States, own property, and attend public schools, colleges, and universities. They may also join certain branches of the Armed Forces, and apply to become U.S. citizens if they meet certain eligibility requirements. This Office of Immigration Statistics Annual Flow Report presents information obtained from applications for LPR status on the number and characteristics of persons who became LPRs in the United States during 2009.1

Green cards can be awarded expressly for employment reasons, limited to 140,000 per year; thus about 13% of green cards in 2009 were awarded for employment &#8220;preferences.&#8221; The 140,000 applies to the workers &#8211; their spouses and children are in addition to the 140,000.

Employment preferences consist of five categories of workers (and their spouses and children): priority workers (about 41,000 in 2009); professionals with advanced degrees or aliens of exceptional ability (46,000) ; skilled workers, professionals (without advanced degrees), and needed unskilled workers; special immigrants (e.g., ministers, religious workers, and employees of the U.S. government abroad)( 40,000); and employment creation immigrants or &#8220;investors&#8221; (3,000).