Just a question to atheists and darwinist?

[Gadawg73]

How do you know God didn't design evolution?

Well, if god is supposed to be a loving god, evolution is pretty brutal and not very loving if god designed life that way. Genetic mutation does have some nasty effects. Also, having to kill other organisms to survive, have to fend off others that want to kill you. Having to deal with microscopic organisms that can kill you and cause horrible pain and suffering.

How is that a god that loves us?

Dr Gregg, I think you are making a mistake here.

If evolution is true, then a god could have designed evolution. It could have set the universe into its primal survival mode as is. It can allow harm to befall organisms due to genetic mutation

Recall the story of Job, God allowed Job to suffer mightily and according to his will. So the God of the old testament does not seem loving in your perspectives, but has demonstrated the ability to allow cruelty to exist, and according to his will.

Did God evolve? Where did God come from?

 

[logical4u]

Another thing, evolution explains everything. It explains all the death, disease and evil in the world. Religion does not, they make bullshit excuses making their god sound like a complete bastard, like "original sin" caused it" or "free will". Which is bullshit that doesn't address the real issues in life, it just gives god a free pass. Evolution, animals having to fight other animals for food, mates, disease, death, all explained by evolution. THe brutality of life, a constant struggle for survival. THe deplorable actions of human beings in general are explained by evolution as humans are animals and their behavior covers nearly all of the animal world.
A loving god that has life design to be a painful struggle because eve ate an apple seems pretty stupid and cruel to me

If evolution explains "everything", why can't it explain where (or how) life originated? It picks up AFTER all the species (and the planet) are formed. It is kind of like the co-worker that takes credit for your work, and everyone believes them until you ask them how they got there from point 'A'; it is then they are exposed as frauds. Evolutionists are 'frauds'. They believe a story with 'selective breeding' as evidence. They have no evidence that ANY species 'evolved' into another species.

A Being appeared before men and told them what He did. He showed them His power when He flooded the earth. He enforced His laws by destroying the sinful cities of Sodom and Gamorrah. He gave a woman past their time, a child. He helped a servant beat a liar and a thief at his own game. He repeated the demonstration with selective plagues, and helping 'slaves' escape the most powerful army of that time. Those 'slaves' became the most feared army of their time. They conquered peoples that outnumbered them, could outfight them in fortified cities. He made a shepard a king. He sent prophets full of wisdom and knowledge to warn His people. He sent His Son to show us how much He loved us. We tortured Him. We killed Him. We refuse to give Him the honor He deserves. We pretend that we can use the scientific methods, based on His rules, to explain what He has already explained. We are idiots. Every time we act like we have any knowledge without Him, we prove it.

If you want to believe the Bible is just a bunch of stories meant to control men, fine. I ask you to read the philosophy and life lessons and see if you know of any 'gov' or philosopher that could 'top' what is written there for 'peace on earth'. See if 'evolution' can explain why this planet is in this place, and how only it, out of the planets we know of, has LIFE.

 

[logical4u]

A quick question on Christiainity before you go to deep into this thread.

Is it true that

1)The God of Judaism is the same God of Christianity?

2) The Jewish God has a compact with Jews that Christians claim was voided

3) This contract was voided when Christ died on the cross?

4)Christ never stated that this voided the original compact between God and man?

5)The arguement for the erasure of such contract is actually convoluted and questionable unless you repeat Christian authority. The same authorities that have a vested interest in the promotion of Christianity?

6)This is not the only questionable theological position Christianity has taken when it concerns the basis and purpose of the religion.

As far as I know, Yeshua was the fullfillment of the contract. He did not 'void' it. The apostles relaxed 'the laws' the Jews used to allow converts to follow Christ, without having to go thru the conversion to Judism, before, converting to Christianity.

The basis and purpose of Christianity is to spread the news that Christ came, taught, and died for us. He left us with 'peace' (of the soul), that can only be received through Him, and is not of this world (men cannot take it away from you), and will last for all etenity. His words still live in the Bible and are available for those that seek truth. He gave us a way to become better people, and doing so, improve our families, and our communities, and our society, and our country, and our world. He is available to all, you have only to seek Him.

If you do not believe that, you might want to read the gospels, just for His philosophy. If you think it is interesting, read the books about the apostles. They did not become politicians that were corrupt leaders because of their association. They became great leaders, many that died terrible deaths for their beliefs. Not the celebrity stories of today.
It is the greatest book ever written.

You know, you bring up an interesting point.

Did Christ die in order for you to have salvation? If so, why did he not have to die for the Samaritan woman who believed him mentioned in John 5 ?

Also, who gave the apostles authority to change the laws of God? Jesus? The apostles? I ran out of people.

Finally, what did Jesus teach, besides "believing in him and you shall have eternal life", that was new?

Yeshua walked the earth as a being that perfectly embodied man and God. He was aware of many of the things He was required to do. IMHO, He knew His death would allow the salvation of the people He forgave. Again, IMHO, the covenants of old were of blood. They required blood to bind. Christ gave His blood and sealed the 'new' covenant.

In Acts, the rule of 'unclean' animals was changed by Paul. He had a dream from G*d, that allowed him (as a practicing Jew) to go to the house of a man that wanted Christ, but was considered unclean. In other events with the Apostles, they prayed (and since they were given authority by the Holy Spirit), they relaxed some of the Jewish laws.

As for what Yeshua taught, I would suggest you read the gospels. You don't have to be afraid. You can keep telling yourself...it is only a book....it is only a book. If you pray beforehand and ask for understanding of your reading, you may find it is even more simple; it is the truth.

 

[eagleseven]

How do you know God didn't design evolution?

If God designed evolution, God tortures us just to grease his laws of nature, despite millennia of worship.

If such an entity exists, and it is self-aware, then our doctors and scientists are actively waging war against God's plan.

 

[Diuretic]

Another thing, evolution explains everything. It explains all the death, disease and evil in the world. Religion does not, they make bullshit excuses making their god sound like a complete bastard, like "original sin" caused it" or "free will". Which is bullshit that doesn't address the real issues in life, it just gives god a free pass. Evolution, animals having to fight other animals for food, mates, disease, death, all explained by evolution. THe brutality of life, a constant struggle for survival. THe deplorable actions of human beings in general are explained by evolution as humans are animals and their behavior covers nearly all of the animal world.
A loving god that has life design to be a painful struggle because eve ate an apple seems pretty stupid and cruel to me

If evolution explains "everything", why can't it explain where (or how) life originated? It picks up AFTER all the species (and the planet) are formed. It is kind of like the co-worker that takes credit for your work, and everyone believes them until you ask them how they got there from point 'A'; it is then they are exposed as frauds. Evolutionists are 'frauds'. They believe a story with 'selective breeding' as evidence. They have no evidence that ANY species 'evolved' into another species.

A Being appeared before men and told them what He did. He showed them His power when He flooded the earth. He enforced His laws by destroying the sinful cities of Sodom and Gamorrah. He gave a woman past their time, a child. He helped a servant beat a liar and a thief at his own game. He repeated the demonstration with selective plagues, and helping 'slaves' escape the most powerful army of that time. Those 'slaves' became the most feared army of their time. They conquered peoples that outnumbered them, could outfight them in fortified cities. He made a shepard a king. He sent prophets full of wisdom and knowledge to warn His people. He sent His Son to show us how much He loved us. We tortured Him. We killed Him. We refuse to give Him the honor He deserves. We pretend that we can use the scientific methods, based on His rules, to explain what He has already explained. We are idiots. Every time we act like we have any knowledge without Him, we prove it.

If you want to believe the Bible is just a bunch of stories meant to control men, fine. I ask you to read the philosophy and life lessons and see if you know of any 'gov' or philosopher that could 'top' what is written there for 'peace on earth'. See if 'evolution' can explain why this planet is in this place, and how only it, out of the planets we know of, has LIFE.

I've often thought about life on other planets. I used to firmly believe (an assumption, I have no evidence) that life existed on other planets. Why? Simply on the odds. All those planets out there, surely ONE had to have life? But then I realised that this might well be the only planet with life. Why? Because it's entirely possible that life is an accident that happened here and nowhere else in that seemingly infinite universe we're in.

 

[Dr Gregg]

True, evolution doesn't address the first life, but then again, neither does religion. It just makes it up. You then get he problem if life is needed to be created, what about god?

 

[logical4u]

Well, if god is supposed to be a loving god, evolution is pretty brutal and not very loving if god designed life that way. Genetic mutation does have some nasty effects. Also, having to kill other organisms to survive, have to fend off others that want to kill you. Having to deal with microscopic organisms that can kill you and cause horrible pain and suffering.

How is that a god that loves us?

Dr Gregg, I think you are making a mistake here.

If evolution is true, then a god could have designed evolution. It could have set the universe into its primal survival mode as is. It can allow harm to befall organisms due to genetic mutation.

Recall the story of Job, God allowed Job to suffer mightily and according to his will. So the God of the old testament does not seem loving in your perspectives, but has demonstrated the ability to allow cruelty to exist, and according to his will.

Yeah, could be, but how does a god who is supposedly loving make us suffer through life with no evidence of his/her existence and expect people to just blindly believe?

If you believe in Him and accept Him as your savior, your suffering is like rain on your shoulders; it is nothing. Your heart has His peace. You are of a physical world and called to experience a physical life. If there was no suffering, how would you appreciate any of the joys or pleasures the world offers.

The evidence of His existence is all around you. You might call it 'luck' or 'fate' or 'a break', but if you pay attention, things line up in a way that could not possibly be 'from evolution'. Why do you think there is the variety of animal and plant life that there is (evolution would have stopped with the first balanced life)? If you found a perfectly laid out garden, would you think that it was planted? Or would you think that someone with great skills did this? This planet and its life is in balance, it is too amazing to have happened by .....chance.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

I have always believed that atheism and darwinism are just another doctrines or religions ...no more.

atheism/darwinism are based upon matrerialism...but their arguments and swear at theists is laughable.

hence I want to ask what is the proof of atheists of their doctrine (God non-existence)?
z'atheists should show a materialist proof of their doctrine since it's always their path of reasoning.

good luck

Atheists don't have a doctrine regarding God. Hence the term A - theist.

And I have no clue what the theory of evolution has to do with materialism. I think you just made that up or more likely are parroting something you heard elsewhere because it neatly supports your argument without you having to do any actual work.

 

[logical4u]

Dr Gregg, I think you are making a mistake here.

If evolution is true, then a god could have designed evolution. It could have set the universe into its primal survival mode as is. It can allow harm to befall organisms due to genetic mutation.

Recall the story of Job, God allowed Job to suffer mightily and according to his will. So the God of the old testament does not seem loving in your perspectives, but has demonstrated the ability to allow cruelty to exist, and according to his will.

Yeah, could be, but how does a god who is supposedly loving make us suffer through life with no evidence of his/her existence and expect people to just blindly believe?

Let us askk the question:Who does God love?

If we take it from believers, it is they since they believe in God and follow what they claim to be his orders. But God also withhold his compassion from the faithful whenever he wants as demonstrated in Job. If we are to assume that god only demonstrate compassion to those he loves and withhold it from those he does not love, then God loves no one.

If we take this as true, the description of God as a loving and caring God is false. God is fickle, and quite brutal to believers and non-believers alike.

The Lord loves every person. He is a disciplined parent. When the child does His will, he is rewarded. When the child does not follow instructions, he is punished. There are times when the good child must be forced to face hardship in order to become a productive person. The Lord will 'purify' us like silver; we will endure hardship to eliminate all spiritual impurities. His will is not our will. Let His will be done.

 

[eagleseven]

The Lord loves every person. He is a disciplined parent. When the child does His will, he is rewarded. When the child does not follow instructions, he is punished. There are times when the good child must be forced to face hardship in order to become a productive person. The Lord will 'purify' us like silver; we will endure hardship to eliminate all spiritual impurities. His will is not our will. Let His will be done.

Are the children who die of leukemia possessed by the devil?

 

[blu]

I have always believed that atheism and darwinism are just another doctrines or religions ...no more.

atheism/darwinism are based upon matrerialism...but their arguments and swear at theists is laughable.

hence I want to ask what is the proof of atheists of their doctrine (God non-existence)?
z'atheists should show a materialist proof of their doctrine since it's always their path of reasoning.

good luck

aethism is based on materialism???

 

[jeffrockit]

From the fossil record, to the modern science of genetics, all evidence supports the fact that life evolved from the single cell to the present diversity. The majority of Christians find the evidence of evolution convincing, and not in conflict with their religion.

I consider myself an agnostic simply because I personally do not know if a diety exist or not. What you know or don't know, I have no way of knowing. So if you say that you believe, I do not find that to challenge my belief, or lack of it, at all. However, if you say that the fossil record, of which I have seen a great deal, is something other than it is, then you had best have evidence.

OK, where did the single cell come from?

 

[edthecynic]

Dr Gregg, I think you are making a mistake here.

If evolution is true, then a god could have designed evolution. It could have set the universe into its primal survival mode as is. It can allow harm to befall organisms due to genetic mutation.

Recall the story of Job, God allowed Job to suffer mightily and according to his will. So the God of the old testament does not seem loving in your perspectives, but has demonstrated the ability to allow cruelty to exist, and according to his will.

Yeah, could be, but how does a god who is supposedly loving make us suffer through life with no evidence of his/her existence and expect people to just blindly believe?

Let us askk the question:Who does God love?

If we take it from believers, it is they since they believe in God and follow what they claim to be his orders. But God also withhold his compassion from the faithful whenever he wants as demonstrated in Job. If we are to assume that god only demonstrate compassion to those he loves and withhold it from those he does not love, then God loves no one.

If we take this as true, the description of God as a loving and caring God is false. God is fickle, and quite brutal to believers and non-believers alike.

How true!

1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1 Corinthians 13:4) Love is long-suffering and kind. Love is not jealous, it does not brag, does not get puffed up,
5) does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury.
6) It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth.
7) It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Na 1:2 God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.

Ex 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Ex 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

 

[logical4u]

The Lord loves every person. He is a disciplined parent. When the child does His will, he is rewarded. When the child does not follow instructions, he is punished. There are times when the good child must be forced to face hardship in order to become a productive person. The Lord will 'purify' us like silver; we will endure hardship to eliminate all spiritual impurities. His will is not our will. Let His will be done.

Are the children who die of leukemia possessed by the devil?

The physical world has hardships. The Lord will not 'prevent' you from dealing with hardships. The older I get, the more I believe that death is to teach the living: we must rely on the Lord, not on men.

Physical death will come to all of us. The 'devil' usually possesses and does horrific acts (look into Charles Manson's eyes and tell me you can't see evil, still). I believe the stress of living a sinful life will harm your physical body.

I do not believe that children that get diseases are possessed or sinful. Their illnesses and deaths are a sad remminder that we have little control over such things. Only thru the Lord will we find 'peace'; that does not mean we will not feel pain or not grieve for those we love.

 

[Diuretic]

It's funny how believers always give their God a get out of gaol ticket. Nice and neat.

 

[Gadawg73]

YouTube?

When you can explain the origin of life, I may pay attention to what you're saying. Until then, you have nothing better than religion does.

How silly of me...offering up a snippet of a lecture by Dr. Neil Degrasse Tyson, astrophysicist and director of the Hayden Planetarium at the Museum of Natural History. It must be dismissed because....it's on youtube.

And the fact that science can admit it doesn't yet fully understand the origin of life is what makes it better than religion.

I can't watch YouTube at the moment, and regardless I'm fairly certain that Dr. Tyson cannot explain the origin of life either. The only difference between you and I is that I accept the plausability of all options, I don't eliminate any. And based on what scientific research has yielded, in my opinion, the evidence strongly suggests an intelligent design.

Do you require scientific fact with all of your "options"?
Or do you allow your religous bias to add "options" that have no scientific basis in fact?

 

[Gadawg73]

How do you know God didn't design evolution?

Try that one on the folks that run the creation museum in Ky. See how far you get with that.
I consider that an option. However, you first have to believe in evolution.

 

[Anguille]

It's funny how believers always give their God a get out of gaol ticket. Nice and neat.

 

[geauxtohell]

I have always believed that atheism and darwinism are just another doctrines or religions ...no more.

atheism/darwinism are based upon matrerialism...but their arguments and swear at theists is laughable.

hence I want to ask what is the proof of atheists of their doctrine (God non-existence)?
z'atheists should show a materialist proof of their doctrine since it's always their path of reasoning.

good luck

I am not an athiest, I (upon logically examining the scientific evidence) believe evolution is the best explanation for the origin of species.

I subscribe to evolution because it fits within the scientific method. Contrary to popular believe by the creationists, it doesn't require faith to accept evolution. Quite the contrary. As with all scientific theories, it is accepted as the most reasonable explanation based on the scientific evidence without any consideration for the supernatural.

All scientific theory is intentionally mute about the existence of God. So you are comparing apples and oranges. Evolution makes absolutely no statements about the supernatural since such an entity can't be proven or disproven through scientific means.

The scientific innumeracy in these posts is so striking that it makes me wonder why I even bother. Most of the time, people like you make statements that are completely bizarre in context of how scientific thought and methodology actually works. It's obvious that you don't even understand the process you are bemoaning.

 

[Gadawg73]

I have always believed that atheism and darwinism are just another doctrines or religions ...no more.

atheism/darwinism are based upon matrerialism...but their arguments and swear at theists is laughable.

hence I want to ask what is the proof of atheists of their doctrine (God non-existence)?
z'atheists should show a materialist proof of their doctrine since it's always their path of reasoning.

good luck

I am not an athiest, I (upon logically examining the scientific evidence) believe evolution is the best explanation for the origin of species.

I subscribe to evolution because it fits within the scientific method. Contrary to popular believe by the creationists, it doesn't require faith to accept evolution. Quite the contrary. As with all scientific theories, it is accepted as the most reasonable explanation based on the scientific evidence without any consideration for the supernatural.

All scientific theory is intentionally mute about the existence of God. So you are comparing apples and oranges. Evolution makes absolutely no statements about the supernatural since such an entity can't be proven or disproven through scientific means.

The scientific innumeracy in these posts is so striking that it makes me wonder why I even bother. Most of the time, people like you make statements that are completely bizarre in context of how scientific thought and methodology actually works. It's obvious that you don't even understand the process you are bemoaning.

Well said.