Judge says Arizona's abortion ban can take effect

[Sinjorri]

I have come to the conclusion that punishing an idiot by saddling them with a child is not a good idea even if you consider adoption as an option. If they discovered late they probably have not taken care of themselves during the pregnancy.

You think it takes some women over four months to discover that they're pregnant?



Ever hear of adoption? People are so desperate to adopt babies that they pay kidnappers to get babies from 3rd-world countries.

In the end the law does what most abortion laws do. It tries to punish unwilling, unprepared, or even unable people with a baby.

Yet, the vast majority of the time liberal shitheads like you are fans of blunt laws, more of the one-size-fits-all laws the better. 90% percent of all new laws restricting liberty are supported by liberals.

yeah adoption is always a good way for an unwanted child, that is a far better choice than killing the baby, atleast they have chance to enjoy life.....And adoption is tough because of a lack of kids and lregulations are rediculous in the US. My wife went through her catholic church and it's full of red tape, but we're still exploring it.

i wish u the best of luck and i hope the child is going to a great home. Honestly because these kids just want a good home to be part of and its ashame when i see people spend big money to have a child of their own through many different ways and lots of failures and never consider adoption. Best of luck to u and the child or children u adopt.

 

[buckeye45_73]

You think it takes some women over four months to discover that they're pregnant?



Ever hear of adoption? People are so desperate to adopt babies that they pay kidnappers to get babies from 3rd-world countries.



Yet, the vast majority of the time liberal shitheads like you are fans of blunt laws, more of the one-size-fits-all laws the better. 90% percent of all new laws restricting liberty are supported by liberals.

yeah adoption is always a good way for an unwanted child, that is a far better choice than killing the baby, atleast they have chance to enjoy life.....And adoption is tough because of a lack of kids and lregulations are rediculous in the US. My wife went through her catholic church and it's full of red tape, but we're still exploring it.

i wish u the best of luck and i hope the child is going to a great home. Honestly because these kids just want a good home to be part of and its ashame when i see people spend big money to have a child of their own through many different ways and lots of failures and never consider adoption. Best of luck to u and the child or children u adopt.

yeah we're checking into it, and it's eye opening, alot of stuff they go over, I mean they give you a real anal exam, but we'll see how it ends up. My sister in law adopted a baby from Russia, just because it's soooo much easier and no she didnt send him back to Russia on a plane (WTH was that woman thinking? I guess it was kinda pro choice and the kid lived, but people need to know humans are more important than anything else and we need to really get past the selfish stage)

 

[Noomi]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ting-baby-a-week-before-its-due-date.htmlWhen do we draw the line?

And why isn't this woman charged with murder?

Mother of two admits aborting baby a week before its due date
A mother of two aborted her own baby just a week before she was due to give birth after taking drugs bought on the internet, a court has heard.

Lets call this what it is murder and why are her two other children allowed in her care?

ETA: hope this link works

Mother of two admits aborting baby a week before its due date - Telegraph

No murder charges, but I would like to know why she did it.

 

[Sinjorri]

yeah adoption is always a good way for an unwanted child, that is a far better choice than killing the baby, atleast they have chance to enjoy life.....And adoption is tough because of a lack of kids and lregulations are rediculous in the US. My wife went through her catholic church and it's full of red tape, but we're still exploring it.

i wish u the best of luck and i hope the child is going to a great home. Honestly because these kids just want a good home to be part of and its ashame when i see people spend big money to have a child of their own through many different ways and lots of failures and never consider adoption. Best of luck to u and the child or children u adopt.

yeah we're checking into it, and it's eye opening, alot of stuff they go over, I mean they give you a real anal exam, but we'll see how it ends up. My sister in law adopted a baby from Russia, just because it's soooo much easier and no she didnt send him back to Russia on a plane (WTH was that woman thinking? I guess it was kinda pro choice and the kid lived, but people need to know humans are more important than anything else and we need to really get past the selfish stage)

lol i read that too, poor child. How is ur sister doing with the CHOICE she made? andim sorry u have to go throgh so much, but they only have so many kids to go to bad homes and stuff and im glad they are screening as best they can. I really hope it works out and if u want to share or keep people up to date, im always glad to hear when kids find good homes. im really proud of ur choice and glad to see u making a choice.

 

[Ariux]

No murder charges, but I would like to know why she did it.

Because she's a sick fuck.

 

[buckeye45_73]

As a younger person I supported bans like this. The logic seems to be there to say if you cannot decide in 20 weeks to abort then you should not be allowed an abortion, and to some extent it does make sense.

Then when you actually think about it you realize it actually does not make sense. Think about the mom who makes this decision later in the pregnancy. You have a couple of types.

First you have the idiot. They either cannot decide or do not realize they are pregnant. I have come to the conclusion that punishing an idiot by saddling them with a child is not a good idea even if you consider adoption as an option. If they discovered late they probably have not taken care of themselves during the pregnancy. This means they might have done drugs, failed to give themselves proper nourishment, and endangered the health of their child. Since these women are unprepared and unaware they are not prepared to raise a child, and the child might have many health problems due to this. The mothers that cannot decide are clearly not prepared to deal with 18 years of child care at that moment. There is a reason they cannot decide, and you should probably take that into account too.

Then you have mothers who face a large change of life, most likely from a huge problem of some sort. Perhaps it is divorce, or maybe they had a financial disaster, or for some reason they find themselves changing their mind about their ability to take care of their child. Who is best to know about their change in capabilities or willingness to take care of a child. Is it an arbitrary law that takes nothing into account but the opinions of others who are not in their circumstance and don't even care to know about them, or is it the mother who is dealing with whatever it is? The law is simply not even paying attention to their life, nor does it care to when it sets these arbitrary numbers. In the laws defense, it is not capable of doing so. Life changes and if the mom can no longer deal with it then let her the fuc out.

In the end the law does what most abortion laws do. It tries to punish unwilling, unprepared, or even unable people with a baby. It is just not a good system for dealing with the problems. A child should be a wanted responsibility that prepared people decide to take on. It is not a punishment on women for having sex. It is not a punishment for women who are not responsible with their sexual activity. It is also not a burden society should be saddled with as even the pro-life people are unwilling to care for the born.

I have moved on from abortion restrictions to allowing the choice to be made by the person who is living the choice and not the rest of the people who really are not going to deal with it.

It doesnt punish them.....it's one thing if the mothers life if in danger or rape/incest, I understand those, but the other issues are excuses. Who is "ready" for a child? In fact I HATE baby books, they make parents so stupid....these people take em as gospel, how the hell did peop-le do it before the books, oh yeah use their intelligence...doh! Ask Dr Spocks kids, they HATE HATE HATE him, because he was a hypocritical piece of shit.

But you will never have enough money or be "ready" for a child, unless you're super rich and then you're probably be a worse parent because they'll know their nanny Emelda better than their mother OR father. Point is if you're gonna have sex, know you could get pregnant, use protection, but if it dont work, abortion shouldnt be a get out of responsibilty free card. And I think that would stop some of these "hookups" at colleges, with people you just met..... because people would know they would have to step up.....

 

[Noomi]

No murder charges, but I would like to know why she did it.

Because she's a sick fuck.

You assume without knowing the facts.

 

[buckeye45_73]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ting-baby-a-week-before-its-due-date.htmlWhen do we draw the line?

And why isn't this woman charged with murder?

Mother of two admits aborting baby a week before its due date
A mother of two aborted her own baby just a week before she was due to give birth after taking drugs bought on the internet, a court has heard.

Lets call this what it is murder and why are her two other children allowed in her care?

ETA: hope this link works

Mother of two admits aborting baby a week before its due date - Telegraph

No murder charges, but I would like to know why she did it.

Becasue she's a fucking dope head that doesnt have value for human life.....I mean her other kids must be thinking if mommy was on the dope I may have been on the chopping block.....that'll get your kids attention...she should be thrown in the Channel.....

 

[Noomi]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ting-baby-a-week-before-its-due-date.htmlWhen do we draw the line?

And why isn't this woman charged with murder?

Mother of two admits aborting baby a week before its due date
A mother of two aborted her own baby just a week before she was due to give birth after taking drugs bought on the internet, a court has heard.

Lets call this what it is murder and why are her two other children allowed in her care?

ETA: hope this link works

Mother of two admits aborting baby a week before its due date - Telegraph

No murder charges, but I would like to know why she did it.

Becasue she's a fucking dope head that doesnt have value for human life.....I mean her other kids must be thinking if mommy was on the dope I may have been on the chopping block.....that'll get your kids attention...she should be thrown in the Channel.....

She has two other kids, who would have known she was expecting again. There must be a reason why she did this.

 

[buckeye45_73]

No murder charges, but I would like to know why she did it.

Becasue she's a fucking dope head that doesnt have value for human life.....I mean her other kids must be thinking if mommy was on the dope I may have been on the chopping block.....that'll get your kids attention...she should be thrown in the Channel.....

She has two other kids, who would have known she was expecting again. There must be a reason why she did this.

I'll tell you what, come up with a good reason and lets debate.....otherwise punch this chick on the ovaries......what a piece of crap....but her kids will do everything she says, she can get away with murder

 

[Noomi]

Becasue she's a fucking dope head that doesnt have value for human life.....I mean her other kids must be thinking if mommy was on the dope I may have been on the chopping block.....that'll get your kids attention...she should be thrown in the Channel.....

She has two other kids, who would have known she was expecting again. There must be a reason why she did this.

I'll tell you what, come up with a good reason and lets debate.....otherwise punch this chick on the ovaries......what a piece of crap....but her kids will do everything she says, she can get away with murder

I don't have a reason. I can't think of any good reason that would lead her to do this, but I have never heard of a woman aborting a week before birth, so this is an exceptional case, which is why I would like to hear more.

 

[IGetItAlready]

No murder charges, but I would like to know why she did it.

Becasue she's a fucking dope head that doesnt have value for human life.....I mean her other kids must be thinking if mommy was on the dope I may have been on the chopping block.....that'll get your kids attention...she should be thrown in the Channel.....

She has two other kids, who would have known she was expecting again. There must be a reason why she did this.

Clearly there was a reason she did it.
After carrying the child to term minus one week she changed her mind.
Fortunately for her she was among the those who see nothing wrong with snuffing out her own child up to the moment the cord is cut.
Surely you don't have an issue with that.

 

[Noomi]

Becasue she's a fucking dope head that doesnt have value for human life.....I mean her other kids must be thinking if mommy was on the dope I may have been on the chopping block.....that'll get your kids attention...she should be thrown in the Channel.....

She has two other kids, who would have known she was expecting again. There must be a reason why she did this.

Clearly there was a reason she did it.
After carrying the child to term minus one week she changed her mind.
Fortunately for her she was among the those who see nothing wrong with snuffing out her own child up to the moment the cord is cut.
Surely you don't have an issue with that.

While it is her body, I just don't understand why people abort, rather than just have a c section and give birth to it?

 

[IGetItAlready]

She has two other kids, who would have known she was expecting again. There must be a reason why she did this.

Clearly there was a reason she did it.
After carrying the child to term minus one week she changed her mind.
Fortunately for her she was among the those who see nothing wrong with snuffing out her own child up to the moment the cord is cut.
Surely you don't have an issue with that.

While it is her body, I just don't understand why people abort, rather than just have a c section and give birth to it?

Perhaps because they've heard enough people attempt to rationalize utter monstrosity for so long that it no longer makes a difference either way in their minds.

 

[tererun]

I have come to the conclusion that punishing an idiot by saddling them with a child is not a good idea even if you consider adoption as an option. If they discovered late they probably have not taken care of themselves during the pregnancy.

You think it takes some women over four months to discover that they're pregnant?

Yeah some. Way back when i was a kid i drove my best friends mother to the hospital because she was having severe abdominal pain. We both thought she was going to die. She was a thin woman and gave birth to a girl. My best friend got a sister and no one in the family had a clue she was pregnant, and even she had her doubts. I saw her that day and could not have told you. Recently the sister of a friend of mine discovered she was 5 months pregnant and had no clue. Some women are very effected by pregnancy in the earlier parts, and some women seem to pass through it. So yes it could go unnoticed, especially if the woman is not seeing a doctor regularly.

The mothers that cannot decide are clearly not prepared to deal with 18 years of child care at that moment.

Ever hear of adoption? People are so desperate to adopt babies that they pay kidnappers to get babies from 3rd-world countries.

That is a load of crap. First it is passing off the responsibility on others, and that might be fine for some, but people are not lined up to adopt babies from certain minorities. It is just not a reliable option, and you will probably find those people who are out chasing down illegal methods for adoption have a reason they need to do that. You might also find the baby trade has more to do with slavery and molestation than legitimate adopting parents. The reality is we cannot rely on adoption to pick up the slack, and there are many more stories of abandonment, murder, neglect, abuse, and other problems resulting from unwanted pregnancies that do not get adopted.

One final note to this. i have nown a few adopted people, and though their lives seem to work on varying degrees, one thing always haunts them. That is why they were given up by their biological parents. I am not saying it is enough to take away their opportunity for life, but it certainly shows that despite the propaganda their lives are not always blessed.

In the end the law does what most abortion laws do. It tries to punish unwilling, unprepared, or even unable people with a baby.

Yet, the vast majority of the time liberal shitheads like you are fans of blunt laws, more of the one-size-fits-all laws the better. 90% percent of all new laws restricting liberty are supported by liberals.

What the fuck are you talking about now? The law deals in absolutes for 2 reasons. the first is fairness. by making hard limits you don't allow for people to dish out punishment based on bias. The second is it needs clear definition or else it leaves holes. This is precisely why it is not good at dealing with issues that are choices with some moral concerns. The law does good in places like murder and theft where there is harm done to another person. It becomes very bogged down when it tries to impose moral values and influence choices on stuff that doesn't hurt others. Before you go and say it abortion only does harm to the person who has one, if it does any at all.

 

[tererun]

As a younger person I supported bans like this. The logic seems to be there to say if you cannot decide in 20 weeks to abort then you should not be allowed an abortion, and to some extent it does make sense.

Then when you actually think about it you realize it actually does not make sense. Think about the mom who makes this decision later in the pregnancy. You have a couple of types.

First you have the idiot. They either cannot decide or do not realize they are pregnant. I have come to the conclusion that punishing an idiot by saddling them with a child is not a good idea even if you consider adoption as an option. If they discovered late they probably have not taken care of themselves during the pregnancy. This means they might have done drugs, failed to give themselves proper nourishment, and endangered the health of their child. Since these women are unprepared and unaware they are not prepared to raise a child, and the child might have many health problems due to this. The mothers that cannot decide are clearly not prepared to deal with 18 years of child care at that moment. There is a reason they cannot decide, and you should probably take that into account too.

Then you have mothers who face a large change of life, most likely from a huge problem of some sort. Perhaps it is divorce, or maybe they had a financial disaster, or for some reason they find themselves changing their mind about their ability to take care of their child. Who is best to know about their change in capabilities or willingness to take care of a child. Is it an arbitrary law that takes nothing into account but the opinions of others who are not in their circumstance and don't even care to know about them, or is it the mother who is dealing with whatever it is? The law is simply not even paying attention to their life, nor does it care to when it sets these arbitrary numbers. In the laws defense, it is not capable of doing so. Life changes and if the mom can no longer deal with it then let her the fuc out.

In the end the law does what most abortion laws do. It tries to punish unwilling, unprepared, or even unable people with a baby. It is just not a good system for dealing with the problems. A child should be a wanted responsibility that prepared people decide to take on. It is not a punishment on women for having sex. It is not a punishment for women who are not responsible with their sexual activity. It is also not a burden society should be saddled with as even the pro-life people are unwilling to care for the born.

I have moved on from abortion restrictions to allowing the choice to be made by the person who is living the choice and not the rest of the people who really are not going to deal with it.

what if said choice is released upon the public? are we allowed to not pay if the baby becomes the WARD of the state? Should we not DEAL with it like u wish to determine for the rest of us? Since u are going to make our choices and already know we will NOT have to deal with it. Much lik ehte left who use the defense "ur obeseity is causing all of us to pay for ur medical bills" if hte child becomes the states burden will u ante up more for it?

I am a pro lifer and like the left uses "we are all in this together" but i guess thats more of a pick and choose slogan.

Look at the people who are against abortion. They are also against public assistance and help for the poor. So in this case the side that is forcing more children to become the responsibility of the state is also the side that doesn't want to pay for it.

The fact is I don't want to pay for it either. If you want to pay for it there is nothing in any proposed law that keeps you from starting up something to care for these unwanted children with your own charity. There is nothing stopping you from making the offer to pregnant mothers to adopt or care for their ids. Don't start making it seem like anyone is stopping the charitable from helping out in these situations.

Despite abortion being legal many mothers chose to be mothers despite the difficulties it presents to them. No one is making the choice for them to have an abortion except for them. People make it seem lie because abortion is legal then all unwanted pregnancies will be aborted, and that is not even true. Most unwanted or unexpected pregnancies result in a mother trying to see it through even with abortion as an option.

1. this is not texting. I know I am not the best speller in the world, but you have time type out the words. I am not asking you to be a perfect speller or gramatically correct, but don't be a lazy fuck.

2. If you are really pro-life tal to some of your buddies and start letting them know that if you are going to try and get a poor or unprepared person to have a child you better be prepared to start coughing up some tax money for social programs like schools, daycare assistance, food assistance, healthcare, housing assistance, police, firemen, welfare, and all sorts of other programs that fund these ids you want to force to be born. You now what, if the US went to a socialist state where each person is provided food, shelter, education, and medicine then i would be willing to talk about telling irresponsible women to allow that life a chance. Until you help out that unwanted child I cannot see your point.

 

[tererun]

I have come to the conclusion that punishing an idiot by saddling them with a child is not a good idea even if you consider adoption as an option. If they discovered late they probably have not taken care of themselves during the pregnancy.

You think it takes some women over four months to discover that they're pregnant?



Ever hear of adoption? People are so desperate to adopt babies that they pay kidnappers to get babies from 3rd-world countries.

In the end the law does what most abortion laws do. It tries to punish unwilling, unprepared, or even unable people with a baby.

Yet, the vast majority of the time liberal shitheads like you are fans of blunt laws, more of the one-size-fits-all laws the better. 90% percent of all new laws restricting liberty are supported by liberals.

yeah adoption is always a good way for an unwanted child, that is a far better choice than killing the baby, atleast they have chance to enjoy life.....And adoption is tough because of a lack of kids and lregulations are rediculous in the US. My wife went through her catholic church and it's full of red tape, but we're still exploring it.

try being an unwanted black baby and then get back to me on that.

 

[tererun]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ting-baby-a-week-before-its-due-date.htmlWhen do we draw the line?

And why isn't this woman charged with murder?

Mother of two admits aborting baby a week before its due date
A mother of two aborted her own baby just a week before she was due to give birth after taking drugs bought on the internet, a court has heard.

Lets call this what it is murder and why are her two other children allowed in her care?

ETA: hope this link works

Mother of two admits aborting baby a week before its due date - Telegraph

No murder charges, but I would like to know why she did it.

Though I think the action is reprehensible, I really don't care. The baby never new life, and given that was the mother it is probably for the best. The answer to the question of why would never satisfy my own moral values, but I am not the one who needs to be satisfied with it.

 

[tererun]

It doesnt punish them.....

That is simply not true. The purpose of the law is to give consequence to irresponsible sex. You had sex, your got pregnant, we could end it before it is alive but we won't because you deserve it. I would be more willing to throw someone in jail for 18 years for having an abortion, though i am not willing to do that, than to saddle them with an unwanted child. A child is not something you want to leave in the permanent care of such an irresponsible person. Would you take your child and give them to a mother who was going to have an abortion? Why is it OK when it is not your child?

it's one thing if the mothers life if in danger or rape/incest, I understand those, but the other issues are excuses. Who is "ready" for a child? In fact I HATE baby books, they make parents so stupid....these people take em as gospel, how the hell did peop-le do it before the books, oh yeah use their intelligence...doh! Ask Dr Spocks kids, they HATE HATE HATE him, because he was a hypocritical piece of shit.

You are admitting that raising a baby is a hard thing even for those parents who deem themselves ready. Perhaps society uses the wrong word. Perhaps they should say committed parents instead. Maybe dedicated. Those are the types of parents who do the best they can. Those are the ones that are dedicated and committed to their children. Now the people you are trying to force to have ids are admitting to being not committed or dedicated to their kids. They are not even really willing. In most cases the mother, and possibly father, steps up on an unwanted pregnancy and tries to face the challenge and dedicates themselves to their kids. But these people who are saying they can't or don't want to are going to start off resenting and disliking the child.

I am looking at this from a different point. There is good and right in this world, and you are trying to enforce good. The problem is that in this situation that does not take into account the reality of the situation. I am looking at who is going to have abortions. This is not china enforcing one child policies, so the people who are out there going and planning their families, or even who strive for their families irresponsibly are still there. They are not going to have abortions, unless they have to because of health problems. Even then many of them will risk it. The people who are having abortions are the people we do not want to have the responsibility of children, and I say that knowing that if i was a woman i would be one of them. It is not just a matter of them not being ready or prepared, it is that they won't be good enough.

But you will never have enough money or be "ready" for a child, unless you're super rich and then you're probably be a worse parent because they'll know their nanny Emelda better than their mother OR father. Point is if you're gonna have sex, know you could get pregnant, use protection, but if it dont work, abortion shouldnt be a get out of responsibilty free card. And I think that would stop some of these "hookups" at colleges, with people you just met..... because people would know they would have to step up.....

None of this will stop poor people from having kids they cannot afford and trying to make it. There are always going to be those people out there who make a family and go at it despite the odds. Those people don't have kids because abortion is not an option, they have them because they want to try. I say let the ones who are not dedicated to that decline the responsibility if it pops up. There are plenty of them who are dedicated, and there are plenty who will push through even with the option there.

In a way the argument i think works against the right thing. By forcing the argument for the choice, you force a callous and cynical attitude to the surface. That argument will influence people. By allowing the freedom to chose abortion, and instilling the value of having kids and giving the choice to abort a negative social stigma I thin you do more towards the value of life than when you force arguments that devalue life to the surface.

 

[tererun]

Becasue she's a fucking dope head that doesnt have value for human life.....I mean her other kids must be thinking if mommy was on the dope I may have been on the chopping block.....that'll get your kids attention...she should be thrown in the Channel.....

She has two other kids, who would have known she was expecting again. There must be a reason why she did this.

I'll tell you what, come up with a good reason and lets debate.....otherwise punch this chick on the ovaries......what a piece of crap....but her kids will do everything she says, she can get away with murder

I would just like to say this may be a flake, and you can't base either side on that sort of person.