Judge: Family’s $80 million gold coin collection belongs to uncle sam

[JoeB131]

Okay, had a talk with my Brother, who is a coin collector and knows a lot more about coins than I do.

The issue with THESE coins was that they were 1933 Double Eagles, minted in 1932 but never supposed to be put into circulation because the US went off the Gold Standard and they could no longer be used as legal tender.

The aforementioned "Kind Farouk" specimen was given as a gift by FDR to King Farouk of Egypt. When it found its way onto the market, it was exempt from the ruling because it was a gift to a foriegn head of state. As such, it was sold and is now on display at various museums, which is where the 8 million figure comes from.

These coins were illegally issued at the time. Possibly because they were given out by the mint before the order came down or a mint employee smuggled them out. In any event, they were never supposed to have been in private hands. That is what gives the government the right to confiscate them.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Okay, had a talk with my Brother, who is a coin collector and knows a lot more about coins than I do.

The issue with THESE coins was that they were 1933 Double Eagles, minted in 1932 but never supposed to be put into circulation because the US went off the Gold Standard and they could no longer be used as legal tender.

The aforementioned "Kind Farouk" specimen was given as a gift by FDR to King Farouk of Egypt. When it found its way onto the market, it was exempt from the ruling because it was a gift to a foriegn head of state. As such, it was sold and is now on display at various museums, which is where the 8 million figure comes from.

These coins were illegally issued at the time. Possibly because they were given out by the mint before the order came down or a mint employee smuggled them out. In any event, they were never supposed to have been in private hands. That is what gives the government the right to confiscate them.

The government claims that they got out illegally, they offered no proof. Believe it or not, the way it is supposed to work is that the government has to prove you are guilty before they can take your property.

 

[flacaltenn]

The law finally caught up with them?

The only criminal in this affair is the federal government. What authority does the government have to force you hand over your gold coins?

The same one that gives them the authority to mint coins to start with. Section 1 of the constitution give Congress the power to charter banks and issue currency, both coin and paper.

The only thing that makes these coins worth millions of dollars is that they are some of the last Double Eagles in existence.

Currency is and remains the property of the United States Government. While you own the value of the currency, the actual currency is the property of the government. It's why you can't draw penises on Geo Washington's head on the $1.00 bill.

The coins in question did INDEED belong to the Fed Govt and HAD they been turned in subject to the FDR order, they would have been reimbursed at the street price of Gold which was the same as the Coin Value. (maybe plus a small percentage)

HOWEVER -- you need to remember that the confiscation order was for ALL GOLD - Coins, Bullion and certificates. Government doesn't issue bullion to citizens. So the law enacted in '33 was indeed pretty drastic and MORE than just excersizing control over Govt minted currency. There were personal exemption limits and exemptions for certain "valuable collectibles" but it was an OVERREACH in terms of confiscating property.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The same authority they had to create them to start with...

There is a fine line between being a creator and having owner ship over something.
The person who paid for them through monetary transaction is the owners of said gold coins. Not the one who created them.
What next taking away someone GM car because the government created it?

Kind of a major difference.

If I took a GM car, copied it and violated their patents and copyrights to their technology, they actually would have legal action against me. Who issues patents? GOvernments! And rightfully so, that's something Capitalists want. They don't want anyone to be able to copy stuff they spent a lot of time and money developing.

The same thing with currency- The government has the authority to issue currency and the actual physical currency is the property of the government. When I take a worn out dollar bill to a bank and exchange it for a crisp new one, that dollar bill is still the government's property. I am only entitled to the face value of the currency.

Addendum, I just talked to my brother the coin collector, who has been following this case. The issue with THESE coins is that they are 1933 Double Eagles, that were never supposed to be put into circulation to start with. These 10 were removed from the mint either by accident or larcency, and that is how they got out into circulation.

No it's not.

 

[Moonglow]

Okay, had a talk with my Brother, who is a coin collector and knows a lot more about coins than I do.

The issue with THESE coins was that they were 1933 Double Eagles, minted in 1932 but never supposed to be put into circulation because the US went off the Gold Standard and they could no longer be used as legal tender.

The aforementioned "Kind Farouk" specimen was given as a gift by FDR to King Farouk of Egypt. When it found its way onto the market, it was exempt from the ruling because it was a gift to a foriegn head of state. As such, it was sold and is now on display at various museums, which is where the 8 million figure comes from.

These coins were illegally issued at the time. Possibly because they were given out by the mint before the order came down or a mint employee smuggled them out. In any event, they were never supposed to have been in private hands. That is what gives the government the right to confiscate them.

The government claims that they got out illegally, they offered no proof. Believe it or not, the way it is supposed to work is that the government has to prove you are guilty before they can take your property.

Hardly, thanks to Reagan/Bush sr. your property can be taken (even real estate) without due process if you are busted for drug selling.

 

[bripat9643]

The law finally caught up with them?

The only criminal in this affair is the federal government. What authority does the government have to force you hand over your gold coins?

The same one that gives them the authority to mint coins to start with. Section 1 of the constitution give Congress the power to charter banks and issue currency, both coin and paper.

Sorry, I don't see anything there that authorizes the government to confiscate your gold coins.

The only thing that makes these coins worth millions of dollars is that they are some of the last Double Eagles in existence.

Yeah? so? How does that give government the authority to confiscate them?

Currency is and remains the property of the United States Government. While you own the value of the currency, the actual currency is the property of the government. It's why you can't draw penises on Geo Washington's head on the $1.00 bill.

Bullshit. furthermore, coins aren't "currency." That is, they aren't reserve notes. They have intrinsic value. The Constitution does not authorize the government to print currency. That's what the Supreme Court ruled after the Civil War. That's why we have the fiction that the Federal Reserve is a private bank.

Everything about this case is based on bogus premises.

 

[bripat9643]

Gold coins are not people, asshole. What authority does the government have to confiscate them?
]

The same authority they had to create them to start with...

Nope. The Constitution authorizes the federal government to mint coins and regulate the value thereof. That's all it authorizes. Once the government turns them over to someone, the government relinquishes all claims on them.

 

[bripat9643]

Okay, had a talk with my Brother, who is a coin collector and knows a lot more about coins than I do.

The issue with THESE coins was that they were 1933 Double Eagles, minted in 1932 but never supposed to be put into circulation because the US went off the Gold Standard and they could no longer be used as legal tender.

The aforementioned "Kind Farouk" specimen was given as a gift by FDR to King Farouk of Egypt. When it found its way onto the market, it was exempt from the ruling because it was a gift to a foriegn head of state. As such, it was sold and is now on display at various museums, which is where the 8 million figure comes from.

These coins were illegally issued at the time. Possibly because they were given out by the mint before the order came down or a mint employee smuggled them out. In any event, they were never supposed to have been in private hands. That is what gives the government the right to confiscate them.

If they were given out before the order came down, then they weren't illegally issued. The fact that they "weren't supposed to have been in private hands" isn't sufficient justification. The only issue is whether they were obtained legally. If they were, the government had no authority to confiscate them. Unless the person who put them in the safe deposit box stole them, they were obtained legally.

 

[Clementine]

So, all gold was supposed to be turned in for cash. This would cover any antique jewelry or other items people have.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Judge: Langboard Family’s $80 Million Double Eagle Gold Coins Belong to Government | Franklin Delano Roosevelt | Video | TheBlaze.com

So fdr tyranny and oppression of the American people continues to live loud and proud among the left.


And I am stunned to this day that people refer to fdr as anything other than Americas first tyrant.

I thought that's what you guys thought about Lincoln... tell them poor rich people they couldn't have slaves.

What a moron.

seriously, your hero steals from the people to prop up his failed ideas, and you have to go off the scale.



So if big 0 gets re-elected, how hard will you support another confiscation of property?

 

[Two Thumbs]

The law finally caught up with them?

The only criminal in this affair is the federal government. What authority does the government have to force you hand over your gold coins?

The same one that gives them the authority to mint coins to start with. Section 1 of the constitution give Congress the power to charter banks and issue currency, both coin and paper.

The only thing that makes these coins worth millions of dollars is that they are some of the last Double Eagles in existence.

Currency is and remains the property of the United States Government. While you own the value of the currency, the actual currency is the property of the government. It's why you can't draw penises on Geo Washington's head on the $1.00 bill.

by that definition

we don't need taxes since the fed can take what it wants, when it wants from whoever it wants.

common sense fail

 

[bigrebnc1775]

So fdr tyranny and oppression of the American people continues to live loud and proud among the left.


And I am stunned to this day that people refer to fdr as anything other than Americas first tyrant.

I thought that's what you guys thought about Lincoln... tell them poor rich people they couldn't have slaves.

What a moron.

seriously, your hero steals from the people to prop up his failed ideas, and you have to go off the scale.



So if big 0 gets re-elected, how hard will you support another confiscation of property?

We (America) is sitting on a powder keg with a very short fuse, and little obama is playing with matches next to the fuse.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Okay, had a talk with my Brother, who is a coin collector and knows a lot more about coins than I do.

The issue with THESE coins was that they were 1933 Double Eagles, minted in 1932 but never supposed to be put into circulation because the US went off the Gold Standard and they could no longer be used as legal tender.

The aforementioned "Kind Farouk" specimen was given as a gift by FDR to King Farouk of Egypt. When it found its way onto the market, it was exempt from the ruling because it was a gift to a foriegn head of state. As such, it was sold and is now on display at various museums, which is where the 8 million figure comes from.

These coins were illegally issued at the time. Possibly because they were given out by the mint before the order came down or a mint employee smuggled them out. In any event, they were never supposed to have been in private hands. That is what gives the government the right to confiscate them.

The government claims that they got out illegally, they offered no proof. Believe it or not, the way it is supposed to work is that the government has to prove you are guilty before they can take your property.

Hardly, thanks to Reagan/Bush sr. your property can be taken (even real estate) without due process if you are busted for drug selling.

Strange, I haven't noticed Obama doing anything to curb that. In fact, he has actually expanded the practice. The reason I know that is I actually pay attention to issues like civil forfeiture, I don't just pretend one party does it.

 

[FA_Q2]

Okay, had a talk with my Brother, who is a coin collector and knows a lot more about coins than I do.

The issue with THESE coins was that they were 1933 Double Eagles, minted in 1932 but never supposed to be put into circulation because the US went off the Gold Standard and they could no longer be used as legal tender.

The aforementioned "Kind Farouk" specimen was given as a gift by FDR to King Farouk of Egypt. When it found its way onto the market, it was exempt from the ruling because it was a gift to a foriegn head of state. As such, it was sold and is now on display at various museums, which is where the 8 million figure comes from.

These coins were illegally issued at the time. Possibly because they were given out by the mint before the order came down or a mint employee smuggled them out. In any event, they were never supposed to have been in private hands. That is what gives the government the right to confiscate them.

Do you have a link to substantiate this? It makes a big difference. On one hand, the information in the OP makes this look like a clear case of abuse of power. On the other, if the government has a valid claim that this is stolen property to begin with…

 

[JoeB131]

Okay, had a talk with my Brother, who is a coin collector and knows a lot more about coins than I do.

The issue with THESE coins was that they were 1933 Double Eagles, minted in 1932 but never supposed to be put into circulation because the US went off the Gold Standard and they could no longer be used as legal tender.

The aforementioned "Kind Farouk" specimen was given as a gift by FDR to King Farouk of Egypt. When it found its way onto the market, it was exempt from the ruling because it was a gift to a foriegn head of state. As such, it was sold and is now on display at various museums, which is where the 8 million figure comes from.

These coins were illegally issued at the time. Possibly because they were given out by the mint before the order came down or a mint employee smuggled them out. In any event, they were never supposed to have been in private hands. That is what gives the government the right to confiscate them.

The government claims that they got out illegally, they offered no proof. Believe it or not, the way it is supposed to work is that the government has to prove you are guilty before they can take your property.

It's not incumbant on the government to prove that. There's a law. You are not allowed to own these. Period. How you got them is irrelevent to the point.

 

[JoeB131]

Okay, had a talk with my Brother, who is a coin collector and knows a lot more about coins than I do.

The issue with THESE coins was that they were 1933 Double Eagles, minted in 1932 but never supposed to be put into circulation because the US went off the Gold Standard and they could no longer be used as legal tender.

The aforementioned "Kind Farouk" specimen was given as a gift by FDR to King Farouk of Egypt. When it found its way onto the market, it was exempt from the ruling because it was a gift to a foriegn head of state. As such, it was sold and is now on display at various museums, which is where the 8 million figure comes from.

These coins were illegally issued at the time. Possibly because they were given out by the mint before the order came down or a mint employee smuggled them out. In any event, they were never supposed to have been in private hands. That is what gives the government the right to confiscate them.

Do you have a link to substantiate this? It makes a big difference. On one hand, the information in the OP makes this look like a clear case of abuse of power. On the other, if the government has a valid claim that this is stolen property to begin with…

Again, all currency is property of the Federal government.

So the most these folks are entitled to is $160.00, the face value of the coins.

 

[JoeB131]

So, all gold was supposed to be turned in for cash. This would cover any antique jewelry or other items people have.

No, all Gold COINS were supposed to be turned in for cash.

 

[FA_Q2]

Okay, had a talk with my Brother, who is a coin collector and knows a lot more about coins than I do.

The issue with THESE coins was that they were 1933 Double Eagles, minted in 1932 but never supposed to be put into circulation because the US went off the Gold Standard and they could no longer be used as legal tender.

The aforementioned "Kind Farouk" specimen was given as a gift by FDR to King Farouk of Egypt. When it found its way onto the market, it was exempt from the ruling because it was a gift to a foriegn head of state. As such, it was sold and is now on display at various museums, which is where the 8 million figure comes from.

These coins were illegally issued at the time. Possibly because they were given out by the mint before the order came down or a mint employee smuggled them out. In any event, they were never supposed to have been in private hands. That is what gives the government the right to confiscate them.

Do you have a link to substantiate this? It makes a big difference. On one hand, the information in the OP makes this look like a clear case of abuse of power. On the other, if the government has a valid claim that this is stolen property to begin with…

Again, all currency is property of the Federal government.

So the most these folks are entitled to is $160.00, the face value of the coins.

That’s nice. It is also false but that’s all right. From the post I cited, this was not even the government’s position. Likely because that position is nuts. The government does not have the right to come in a take what they please for no reason. If the coins in question were stolen property, that is one thing, if they were lawfully owned by the people in question then the government has no right to come in a take them. I am guessing that they were proven to be stolen as they lost the case and then lost the appeal. A find it tough to swallow that a jury would award the government the case if the people in question had owned the coins to begin with.

On that note, if the government had such a right (to take any money from you without cause) there would have been no need for the case to begin with.

 

[editec]

jacqueline romero, assistant u.s. Attorney in philadelphia, explained that the coins legally belonged to the government after franklin delano roosevelt ordered citizens to exchange their gold for cash in an effort to keep the banks afloat during the great depression.

Reads like BS to me. If the judge takes these, the judge is violating the spirit of that law.

That law included a pass for numismatic collections.

​

 

[JoeB131]

[ I am guessing... .

Yes you are. Get back to me when you have facts.

Frankly, I'm not bothered by this in the least. There's a lot of shit the government does that is far worse.

For instance, if an Eagle loses a feather on your property, and you pick it up, that's a $25,000 fine. Now THAT'S insane.