Judge Crab issues Crabby Ruling on National Day of Prayer

[NYcarbineer]

Why do the people who hate government need the government to establish a Prayer Day? Did you people need the government to establish your tax protest day the other day?

You want a prayer day? Get off your fat whiny asses, pick a day, make it Prayer Day.

How hard is that?

 

[Modbert]

Why do the people who hate government need the government to establish a Prayer Day? Did you people need the government to establish your tax protest day the other day?

You want a prayer day? Get off your fat whiny asses, pick a day, make it Prayer Day.

How hard is that?

These are the questions I was wondering. But I have a feeling that certain people just "hate" the government when it's not their person in charge.

 

[Foxfyre]

snopes.com: White House Ban on Religious Christmas Ornaments

Try not to repeat dumb things you hear in chain e-mails.

I didn't say anything about ornaments. But show me where we have a National Christmas Tree insead of a National Holiday Tree these days.

Ummmm... In that article I just linked. There's even a video of the White House Christmas Tree, being carried in a wagon with the words "WHITE HOUSE CHRISTMAS TREE" scribed on the side of it.

You're right. After doing some further research I believe your information is correct and the Natinal Chrsitmas Tree remains a Christmas tree. It is other organizations that changed the name, but not anybody in government. So thanks for correcting me and I withdraw my earlier complaint.

 

[Foxfyre]

Why do the people who hate government need the government to establish a Prayer Day? Did you people need the government to establish your tax protest day the other day?

You want a prayer day? Get off your fat whiny asses, pick a day, make it Prayer Day.

How hard is that?

It isn't that anybody NEEDS a National Day of Prayer. It is whether it is within the right of the people to have one if they want one and whether it is withint the jurisdiction of government to help them out on that.

Actually for somebody like me who is an originalist, I have to acknowledge that both Madison and Jefferson thought it inappropriate for the government to establish a National Day of Prayer; however many others disagreed and the official acknowledgement was established I believe under Truman in the early 1950's.

So whether we have one or don't, I'm ambivalent about that.

My squawk is with a Federal judge who presumes to attach a different interpretation to the Constitution and even change the language from what is actually there.

 

[Againsheila]

Why do the people who hate government need the government to establish a Prayer Day? Did you people need the government to establish your tax protest day the other day?

You want a prayer day? Get off your fat whiny asses, pick a day, make it Prayer Day.

How hard is that?

The government had already established a prayer day. Apparently we got off our whiny asses in the past and made a Prayer Day. Now this stupid judge has ruled against it.

I really don't give a crap about prayer day, what I do care about is the fact that our religious freedoms are being chipped away at bit by bit. Sooner or later, if we don't fight back, we will lose it altogether. I don't look forward to that day.

 

[Againsheila]

Why do the people who hate government need the government to establish a Prayer Day? Did you people need the government to establish your tax protest day the other day?

You want a prayer day? Get off your fat whiny asses, pick a day, make it Prayer Day.

How hard is that?

These are the questions I was wondering. But I have a feeling that certain people just "hate" the government when it's not their person in charge.

Actually I hate our government and have since I naively voted for Clinton (who signed NAFTA, GATT and PNTR with China). I have since learned the truth, that our government isn't ours, it's owned by the uber wealthy and big corporations. Anybody that doesn't hate that isn't a true American.

 

[jillian]

What I would like to know is that precise point in history in which the wording in the Constitution making it illegal for the government to establish religion was reinterpreted to make it illegal for government to promote religion.

And I would like to know what religion the long standing tradition of the National Day of Prayer establishes?

government could NEVER promote religion. what do you think the effective difference is between 'promoting' religion and 'establishing' religion. think it they organized muslim prayer it would be ok?

there was no 'reinterpretation'. interpretations are, however, refined as the caselaw progresses.

and it's always been clear that freedom OF religion is also freedom FROM religion.

 

[Againsheila]

What I would like to know is that precise point in history in which the wording in the Constitution making it illegal for the government to establish religion was reinterpreted to make it illegal for government to promote religion.

And I would like to know what religion the long standing tradition of the National Day of Prayer establishes?

government could NEVER promote religion.

there was no 'reinterpretation'. interpretations are, however, refined as the caselaw progresses.

and it's always been clear that freedom OF religion is also freedom FROM religion.

Never. Freedom OF religion is completely different from freedom from religion. And I highly object to anybody that claims they are granted the right to freedom from religion in our constitution. Those are the kinds of people that ripped out my brother's memorial site on private property next to the road where he died. We had permission of the landowners. Some idiot who believed in freedom FROM religion ripped out his cross, broke his picture frame and trashed the memorial. You do not have a right to freedom from religion. You don't have a right NOT to see a cross on private property. You don't have a right NOT to hear people pray in public. There is no such thing as freedom from religion.

 

[boedicca]

We have a great variety of national days, weeks, and months of "observance":

Days:
* Religious Freedom Day (January 16)
* Martin Luther King Jr. Federal Holiday (third Monday in January)[2]
* National Sanctity of Human Life Day (third Sunday in January)
* Education and Sharing Day (late March or April-based on Hebrew Calendar)
* Greek Independence Day (March 25)
* National D.A.R.E. Day (second Thursday in April)
* National Former Prisoner of War Recognition Day (April 9)
* Pan American Day and week (April 14 and week thereof)
* Armenian Remembrance Day (April 24)[3]
* Loyalty Day (May 1)
* Law Day, U.S.A. (May 1)
* National Day of Prayer (first Thursday in May)
* Mother's Day (second Sunday in May)
* National Defense Transportation Day and National Transportation Week (third Friday in May and week thereof)
* National Maritime Day (May 22)
* Prayer for Peace, Memorial Day (last Monday in May) [4]
* National Child's Day (first Monday in June)
* Flag Day, and National Flag Week (June 14 and week thereof)
* Father's Day (third Sunday in June)
* National Korean War Veterans Armistice Day (July 27) (originally ended 2003, reinstated in 2009)
* Parent's Day (last Sunday in July)
* National Airborne Day (August 16)
* Women's Equality Day (August 26)
* National Days of Prayer and Remembrance (weekend prior to September 11)
* Patriot Day (September 11)
* National POW/MIA Recognition Day (Third Friday in September)
* Citizenship Day and Constitution Week (September 17 and week thereof)
* Family Day (fourth Monday in September)
* Gold Star Mother's Day (last Sunday in September)
* Child Health Day (first Monday in October)
* German-American Day (October 6)
* Columbus Day (second Monday in October)[5]
* Leif Erikson Day (October 9)
* General Pulaski Memorial Day (October 11)
* White Cane Safety Day (October 15)
* United Nations Day (October 24)
* World Freedom Day (November 9)
* Veterans Day (November 11)[6]
* America Recycles Day (November 15)
* Thanksgiving Day (fourth Thursday in November)[7]
* Native American Heritage Day (Friday after Thanksgiving)[8]
* World AIDS Day (December 1)
* National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day (December 7)
* Human Rights Day and Human Rights Week (December 10 and week beginning of)
* Bill of Rights Day (December 15)
* Wright Brothers Day (December 17)

Special weeks recognized by presidential proclamation

* National Consumer Protection Week (first week of February)
* Save Your Vision Week (first week of March)
* National Poison Prevention Week (third week of March)
* National Volunteer Week (last week of April)
* National Crime Victims' Rights Week (April)
* National Park Week (last week of April)
* World Trade Week (third week of May)
* National Hurricane Preparedness Week (third week in May)
* National Safe Boating Week (week prior to Memorial Day)
* Captive Nations Week (third week of July)
* Minority Enterprise Development Week (September)
* National Farm Safety and Health Week (third week of September)
* National Historically Black Colleges and Universities Week (September)
* Fire Prevention Week (week of October 9)
* National School Lunch Week (week of the second Sunday in October)
* National Forest Products Week (week of the third Sunday in October)
* National Character Counts Week (third week in October)
* National Farm-City Week (week prior to Thanksgiving)
* National Family Week (week of Thanksgiving)

[edit] Special months recognized by presidential proclamation

* American Heart Month (February)
* Black History Month (February)
* American Red Cross Month (March)
* Women's History Month (March)
* Irish-American Heritage Month (March)
* Cancer Control Month (April)
* National Donate Life Month (April)
* Prevent Child Abuse Month (April)
* Older Americans Month (May)
* Jewish American Heritage Month (May)[9]
* Asian Pacific American Heritage Month (May)[10]
* Mental Health Awareness Month (May)
* Gay and Lesbian Pride Month (June)
* Caribbean-American Heritage Month (June) [1], [2], [3]
* Great Outdoors Month (June)
* Black Music Month (June)
* National Alcohol and Drug Addiction Recovery Month (September)
* National Ovarian Cancer Awareness Month (September)
* National Preparedness Month (September)
* National Hispanic Heritage Month (September 15–October 15)[11]
* National Breast Cancer Awareness Month (October)
* National Domestic Violence Awareness Month (October)
* National Disability Employment Awareness Month (October)
* National Hospice Month (November)
* National Adoption Month (November)
* National Family Caregivers Month (November)
* National Alzheimer's Disease Awareness Month (November)
* National Diabetes Month (November)
* National American Indian Heritage Month (November)
* National Drunk and Drugged Driving Prevention Month (December)

List of observances in the United States by presidential proclamation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


If the President can proclaim these, a National Day of Prayer should also be allowed (which is already included in the list).

 

[Foxfyre]

What I would like to know is that precise point in history in which the wording in the Constitution making it illegal for the government to establish religion was reinterpreted to make it illegal for government to promote religion.

And I would like to know what religion the long standing tradition of the National Day of Prayer establishes?

government could NEVER promote religion. what do you think the effective difference is between 'promoting' religion and 'establishing' religion. think it they organized muslim prayer it would be ok?

there was no 'reinterpretation'. interpretations are, however, refined as the caselaw progresses.

and it's always been clear that freedom OF religion is also freedom FROM religion.

Promoting religion is recogizing and acknowledging the benefit of religious faith to communities, states, and the nation, allowing deductions for charitable contributions to qualified churches or faith based groups, acknowledging the contribution of religion to our national history and heritage, and allowing historical religious traditions even within government - i.e. the National Christmas Tree or a National Day of Prayer. and including historical religious symbols in architecture and art such as is found on many government buildings. Not any one of these requires any religious belief or response from anybody, denies any religious belief or response to anybody, rewards anybody for their religious beliefs or responses, or prevents anybody to have freedom from religion.

Establishing religion is mandating any religious practice or favoring any one religion or religious group over another or to the exclusion of any other.

The Constitution forbids any establishment of religion. There is nothing in the Constitution forbidding government from promoting religion.

 

[Eccgmike]

I think they need a National Day of Prayer in Greece!,.....If we could only get Pelosi, Reid, Boxer and Waxman to start the Progressive "movement" to Greece. Why don't they go show them how to fix their economy!

 

[rdean]

I don't like to see people crawling for and begging non-existent spooks to "like them". It's pathetic. Mildly entertaining, but mostly pathetic.

 

[Foxfyre]

I think they need a National Day of Prayer in Greece!,.....If we could only get Pelosi, Reid, Boxer and Waxman to start the Progressive "movement" to Greece. Why don't they go show them how to fix their economy!

I don't think Pelosi, Reid, Boxer, and Waxman WANT to fix them. I think they want to emulate them.

But Europe has pretty much become a secular continent. It has some of the most magnificent architecture in its great old churches and cathedrals in the world, but most of them stand empty most of the time. Has that made Europe a friendlier, more compassionate, less class conscious, or a place of more opportunity for everybody?

I don't see it.

And as I see religion in America increasingly demonized, marginalized, ridiculed, and assaulted on all sides, I have to believe that has at least been a factor in our nation also becoming less friendly, less compassionate, more class conscious, and having the seeming effect of less opportunity.

The Founders embraced religion as the foundation upon which a great nation would rise even as the recognized the dangers of government favoring any one religion over any other. I think they would be horried at those who would even now try to eliminate a grand and good and harmless tradition as a National Day of Prayer.

 

[WillowTree]

where's the link? And from what i read:

us district judge barbara crabb said the federal statute violates the first amendment’s prohibition on government endorsement of religion.

a national day of prayer (just like establishing prayer days in school) is the government endorsing religion.

If you want someone to blame, blame the founding fathers.

establishment clause of the first amendment - wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

this does not prevent anyone from exercising their right to participate in religion.

bullfuckingshitmodoron.. They open the house and the senate every single day they decide to work with a prayer... At the taxpayers expense.. You are so mofo dumb.

 

[WillowTree]

I'm sure some people would say exactly what you said back then, except about lynching. However, I'm sure you would agree with me that here in 2010, such a thing is universally not valid or healthy.

And now that you've played the RACE CARD, you've conceded defeat.

My work here is done.

He gets off on calling people racist.. he's a DUmmie after all.. moron.

 

[WillowTree]

What I would like to know is that precise point in history in which the wording in the Constitution making it illegal for the government to establish religion was reinterpreted to make it illegal for government to promote religion.

And I would like to know what religion the long standing tradition of the National Day of Prayer establishes?

government could NEVER promote religion. what do you think the effective difference is between 'promoting' religion and 'establishing' religion. think it they organized muslim prayer it would be ok?

there was no 'reinterpretation'. interpretations are, however, refined as the caselaw progresses.

and it's always been clear that freedom OF religion is also freedom FROM religion.

Never been clear at all.. just another load of bs.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Why do you religious conservatives, who, let's remember, mostly hate the federal government, need the federal government to make you a national day of prayer?

Why don't YOU, as religious people, make your own national day of prayer, and see if you can summon up enough of your personal faith to enable you to not give a shit whether the GOVERNMENT says YOUR national day of prayer is also the GOVERNMENT's national day of prayer.

I'm guessing God, if he exists, accepts prayers even if the GOVERNMENT has not put a stamp of approval on them.

You people are SO odd...

 

[Foxfyre]

Why do you religious conservatives, who, let's remember, mostly hate the federal government, need the federal government to make you a national day of prayer?

Why don't YOU, as religious people, make your own national day of prayer, and see if you can summon up enough of your personal faith to enable you to not give a shit whether the GOVERNMENT says YOUR national day of prayer is also the GOVERNMENT's national day of prayer.

I'm guessing God, if he exists, accepts prayers even if the GOVERNMENT has not put a stamp of approval on them.

You people are SO odd...

Well I am conservative. And I suppose I'm at least a person of faith if not exactly religious. So I can answer this, yes?

First, we don't hate government. We are rather fond of our form of government as it was intended. We just hate too big, too authoritarian, too incompetent, too expensive, too intrusive government.

Second we don't need the government to make a National Day of Prayer, but we see it as appropriate and as reflective and responsive to basic American values, harmless, and constructive in that it focuses on something pure, innocent, good, productive, and non combative for a change. Everything doesn't have to be absolutely necessary in order to be a good thing.

Speaking of which, some of you haven't checked into the USMB Coffee Shop yet. It also is not at all necessary but it is still a good thing.