Jude 1 of The Bible's NT vs Gays: A Tutorial On Baking Cakes & Adoption

[badger2]

So post #58's polygamy will get screwed whether or not the mystifications are admitted.

 

[Silhouette]

Either bake the stupid cake or open a church, not a business.

You can't force anyone to choose between their religion and opening a business. Hint: this is about deviant sex BEHAVIORS and not a recognizable static class. There are no protections even insinuated for "LGBT...etc." under the US Constitution.

 

[Lysistrata]

Bible Gateway passage: Jude - King James Version

Jude 1

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:

23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

********

In short, it is a mortal sin for a Christian to enable the spread of homosexuality within a culture. But it is not a sin to reach out to the homosexual individual "making a difference".

Baking:

Scenario 1: A gay couple walks into a bakery and wants a cake "for a party". The Christian baker says "would you like chocolate or vanilla icing? The Christian serves all individual sinners. This would apply to scones, cookies, mints, bread, muffins and the like.

Scenario 2: A gay couple walks into a bakery and wants a cake (or scones, cookies, mints, bread, muffins and the like) for their "wedding". The Christian baker says "no, I would face eternal damnation".

The problem for the Christian in #2 is that s/he would be enabling the spread of homosexuality as a CULTURE throughout the mainstream via the vehicle of marriage (or adoption or education...any social vehicle like that which spreads ideas "as good").

Adoption:

Whereas the cake scenario is in the religious arena, adoption is in both the religious and the legal arena. Not only would a Christian person be forbidden from letting an orphan child into such abomination to be instructed and raised up in the sinning culture, but any person, Christian or not, must not allow a child to be let into a contract which banishes said child for life from either a mother or father. For further information, read here: The Gay Marriage vs Children's Rights Impending Legal-Collision Looms Closer

Your quotes have nothing to do with establishing that homosexuality is a "mortal sin" per se in the Christian faith or that LGBTs are any more guilty of "ungodliness" due to their sexual orientation than heterosexuals who commit other offenses against what are thought by the public to be sexual mores. Even if sexual activity is to be considered the most important of sins, which is rubbish, promiscuity has been with us since the dawn of time, committed by persons of all sexual orientations and both sexes.
Consider that a whole denomination was started by the Rev. Troy Perry, to afford a place for LGBT Christians, who felt unwelcome in other houses of worship, to worship and be ministered to; the Metropolitan Community Church. LGBTs, like the rest of us, practice faith voluntarily and get out of bed to offer worship on the appropriate day. There is no more reason now in the modern era, when LGBTs can now commit themselves to a partner, to condemn them any more than heterosexual persons who commit sexual "sins" like fornication and adultery, yet there is no similar outcry about the reprehensible behavior of heterosexuals. There has been no loud screaming about marginalizing people like newt gingrich, trump, and the others who have committed fornication and adultery.
Moreover, there other major sins than sexual ones, greed, gluttony, pride, sloth, wrath, vanity, let no one is calling out people that commit these sins, or else we would not have/had "leaders" like trump, moore, and gingrich.
I am not LGBT. If I was, I would damned well say so.

 

[badger2]

Jesus's lips: "The poor you will always have with you," is precisely protection racket's inculcation of capitalist class difference. Under the U.S. Constitution, there are no protections insinuated for religion's pathologies either.

 

[Penelope]

Depriving religious freedom is not the same thing as being deprived of the freedom from religion's pathologies.

This is not about the First Amendment. It's a Public Accommodation and the laws that rule them are constitution. The Supreme Court has already ruled on this. All the answers up to date have been, shut up and do your damn job. Save the BS for church.

The US Supreme Court is in fact taking this on as a 1st Amendment challenge. Do try to keep up. Nobody is required to accommodate deviant behaviors in their shop or place of business. The nasty business the squeamish courts dodged before will have to be visited. "What the hell are we making into a special class when polygamists still can't marry and adopt?" Scalia knew the rat's nest. Now they will have to take out the microscope and look at what "LGBT" really means. *Waives to Anne Heche*

See if your opinion its deviant behavior, but your opinion means shit in a court room. Opinion are like belly buttons , most people have them.

 

[Columbo]

Opinion are like belly buttons , most people have them.

I want to meet the ones that don't, if not surgically removed.

 

[Syriusly]

Bible Gateway passage: Jude - King James Version

Jude 1

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:

23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

********

In short, it is a mortal sin for a Christian to enable the spread of homosexuality within a culture.r

In short- Silhouette is once again lying about what the Bible says.

 

[Syriusly]

I guess the baker should find another business.

That would be discrimination, which is illegal. The gays can always get a cake baked elsewhere. A gay baker would not want to bake a cake with God Hates Fags written on it and he has a right to refuse it.

No actually he wouldn't. Because in all 50 states, the law protects the Christian customer. In a few states- it protects the gay customer.

 

[Syriusly]

Bake the
It was an illegal decision, arrived at with no less than two of the Justices coming out publicly beforehand to say how they would cast (which is also disallowed)..

You are as always delusional.

It is impossible for the Supreme Court to issue an illegal decision.

Literally impossible.

You can argue it was a bad decision- but claiming it is an illegal decision is like arguing that parts of the Bible are sinful.

You are as always delusional.

It is impossible for the Supreme Court to issue an illegal decision.

Literally impossible.

You can argue it was a bad decision- but claiming it is an illegal decision is like arguing that parts of the Bible are sinful.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Bake the fucking cake. You aren't a church. Thanks so much.

Interesting you would never, in 1000 years, says something like that to these guys......(yep, radical Muslims bake cakes too)
What's that, suddenly you're silent? Christians won't behead you for saying that.....these guys will.

Or these guys.....

Maybe your mouth expels convictions your cowardice isn't really ready to back up?

 

[Syriusly]

Bible Gateway passage: Jude - King James Version

Jude 1

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:

23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

********

In short, it is a mortal sin for a Christian to enable the spread of homosexuality within a culture. But it is not a sin to reach out to the homosexual individual "making a difference".

Baking:

Scenario 1: A gay couple walks into a bakery and wants a cake "for a party". The Christian baker says "would you like chocolate or vanilla icing? The Christian serves all individual sinners. This would apply to scones, cookies, mints, bread, muffins and the like.

Scenario 2: A gay couple walks into a bakery and wants a cake (or scones, cookies, mints, bread, muffins and the like) for their "wedding". The Christian baker says "no, I would face eternal damnation".

The problem for the Christian in #2 is that s/he would be enabling the spread of homosexuality as a CULTURE throughout the mainstream via the vehicle of marriage (or adoption or education...any social vehicle like that which spreads ideas "as good").

Adoption:
r

God tells Christians to obey the law- not to disobey the law.

Romans 13New International Version (NIV)
Submission to Governing Authorities
13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

 

[Syriusly]

Bake the fucking cake. You aren't a church. Thanks so much.

Interesting you would never, in 1000 years, says something like that to these guys......
What's that, suddenly you're silent? Christians won't behead you for saying that.....these guys will.

View attachment 164627

Or these guys.....
View attachment 164628

Maybe your mouth expels convictions your cowardice isn't really ready to back up?

So you want Americans to be more like these guys?

I am not aware of any American who will behead me for saying 'bake the cake'

Of course we don't have to go back that far to find Christians that would happily castrate or execute someone for being gay.

Even today there are Christians who want to be able to prosecute Americans for being gay.

 

[Syriusly]

Bake the fucking cake. You aren't a church. Thanks so much.

Does the 1st Amendment guarantee rights to a pile of bricks with wooden pews and an altar? Or does it guarantee rights to individual Christians? You already know the answer to this so it's a rhetorical question.

His right to be a Christian is completely unaffected. It's a business not a church. If he doesn't like our rules he can go do something else.

But his rules are dominant to "yours". The US Constitution has the final word. And this will be scathingly clear to you very soon. There is no language whatsoever in the US Constitution which protects a minority deviant sex behavior subculture. If there was, polygamists could also already marry and adopt kids. But they can't; which would be a conflict and violation of the 14th Amendment. Long story short, Scalia was right: Obergefell is a legal quagmire and a rat's nest of false premises and conflicting laws. I think he actually called it "judicial voodoo" or words to that effect.

Public Accommodation laws are constitutional. The Supreme Court has already ruled on this and against people discriminating against homosexuals in said things.

If that were the case the Colorado baker wouldn't be in front of SCOTUS now

And it will be an interesting case.

On the one hand public accommodation laws are fairly settled law- but the question is whether or not this baker is an artist and whether or not this is not a business transaction- but forcing him to engage in speech.

We will see how the court rules.

 

[Syriusly]

I guess the baker should find another business.

Remember, LGBTs are BEHAVIORS. .

Remember- Silhouette lies.

Sexual orientation is not a behavior. No more than being attracted to blondes is a behavior.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

So you want Americans to be more like these guys?
I am not aware of any American who will behead me for saying 'bake the cake'
Of course we don't have to go back that far to find Christians that would happily castrate or execute someone for being gay.
Even today there are Christians who want to be able to prosecute Americans for being gay.

Where did I say I wanted Americans to be more like those guys? How you gathered that is a mystery.

Just as there are radical Muslims, there were and are radical Christians....a FEW.
However, the radical Muslims outnumber radical Christians today by staggering, incomparable numbers.

And there are gays today that want to (AND DO) prosecute Christians for their beliefs.
Why, in your opinion, are the rights of gay people more important the the rights of Christians?

 

[Syriusly]

So you want Americans to be more like these guys?
I am not aware of any American who will behead me for saying 'bake the cake'
Of course we don't have to go back that far to find Christians that would happily castrate or execute someone for being gay.
Even today there are Christians who want to be able to prosecute Americans for being gay.

Where did I say I wanted Americans to be more like those guys? How you gathered that is a mystery.

Just as there are radical Muslims, there were and are radical Christians....a FEW.
However, the radical Muslims outnumber radical Christians today by staggering, incomparable numbers.

And there are gays today that want to (AND DO) prosecute Christians for their beliefs.
Why, in your opinion, are the rights of gay people more important the the rights of Christians?

Where did I say that the rights of gay people are more important than the rights of Christians?

Remember for 200 years Christians prosecuted gays in America- and were only stopped by the Supreme Court- relatively recently. How recently? As recently as 2013
You Can Still Be Arrested for Being Gay in Red-State America

Now- unlike Christian 'prosecutions' which were attempts to imprison gays- what are the 'gays that want to prosecute Christians for their beliefs'?

In all 50 states it is against the law for a business to refuse to sell to a Baptist for being Baptist. In a few states- it is against the law to refuse to sell to a gay for being gay.

The gays that have filed complaints or lawsuits against Christians do so under the exact same laws that protect Christians against discrimination.

In other words- rather than the rights of gays being more than Christians- they are exercising the exact same rights Christians have.

Equal rights.

Now why would you be against equal rights?

 

[AvgGuyIA]

So stories written by story tellers two thousand years ago gets more weight then American citizens.

Sick fuckers.

. You are a bigot expecting people to reject God just so rump rangers can force us to commit a mortal sin serving them in their sinful weddings.

 

[Columbo]

So stories written by story tellers two thousand years ago gets more weight then American citizens.

Sick fuckers.

. You are a bigot expecting people to reject God just so rump rangers can force us to commit a mortal sin serving them in their sinful weddings.

Mortal sin? Are you stuck in the Old Testament again?

 

[Jarlaxle]

The subject-object problem links to the perjury embedded in the marriage vow: "forsaking all others," let alone the attempt at an ethicopolitical argument that copulates church with state.

'The very idea of an "ethical experience" in the face-to-face encounter is untenable, since any encounter always excludes others and thus exercises discrimination....the third "does not wait" and undermines the primacy of ethics....a pledge of unconditional fidelity necessarily commits perjury, either by betraying its relation to other others in favor of a certain other or inversely.....an arche-perjury or arche-betrayal that makes us doubly exposed to violence: exposed to undergo it but also to exercise it."
(Radical Atheism, pp. 98-9)

Are you in the right thread?

 

[Jarlaxle]

So stories written by story tellers two thousand years ago gets more weight then American citizens.

Sick fuckers.

. You are a bigot expecting people to reject God just so rump rangers can force us to commit a mortal sin serving them in their sinful weddings.

Mortal sin? Are you stuck in the Old Testament again?

How much girl-girl porn you figure this dude has?