Judas Iscariot = civic minded champion?

[anotherlife]

Does Judas Iscariot, the betrayer the Jesus, play the role of champion of civic duty?

Jesus broke a number of civic laws, especially the ones with religious connotations. Judas took money, sanctioned by civic laws, to destroy Jesus.

As opposed to civic laws, even the Old Testament says that we are each other's keepers. And the New Testament warns against civic mindedness in the horrors of the book of revelations.

Yet, as if wanting those horrors, people are increasingly proud of their civic duties. For example about reporting you for employing an illegal gardener.

Most professors put civic mindedness in contrast to religion, and point out that civic mindedness suffocates the religious mind.

Your take? And can people be saved from the dazzling false altar of civic mindedness and of civic duties?

 

[hobelim]

Does Judas Iscariot, the betrayer the Jesus, play the role of champion of civic duty?

No..

An interesting thing to note is that unlike in the other gospels the only person that Jesus gives bread to during the last supper according to the gospel of John is Judas, as a way for Jesus to surreptitiously identify his betrayer to the faithful.

And, according to the story, as soon as Judas received the bread, Satan entered him.. John 13:27


What does that tell you?

 

[Taz]

Does Judas Iscariot, the betrayer the Jesus, play the role of champion of civic duty?

No..

An interesting thing to note is that unlike in the other gospels the only person that Jesus gives bread to during the last supper according to the gospel of John is Judas, as a way for Jesus to surreptitiously identify his betrayer to the faithful.

And, according to the story, as soon as Judas received the bread, Satan entered him.. John 13:27


What does that tell you?

You're batshit crazy?

 

[anotherlife]

Does Judas Iscariot, the betrayer the Jesus, play the role of champion of civic duty?

No..

An interesting thing to note is that unlike in the other gospels the only person that Jesus gives bread to during the last supper according to the gospel of John is Judas, as a way for Jesus to surreptitiously identify his betrayer to the faithful.

And, according to the story, as soon as Judas received the bread, Satan entered him.. John 13:27


What does that tell you?

I know that when Satan enters you, it takes over your thinking processes. But it would be better if you explained a little more why your answer is a no. To me it looks like Judas did what every person would do who has a strong sense of civic duty.

 

[hobelim]

Does Judas Iscariot, the betrayer the Jesus, play the role of champion of civic duty?

No..

An interesting thing to note is that unlike in the other gospels the only person that Jesus gives bread to during the last supper according to the gospel of John is Judas, as a way for Jesus to surreptitiously identify his betrayer to the faithful.

And, according to the story, as soon as Judas received the bread, Satan entered him.. John 13:27


What does that tell you?

I know that when Satan enters you, it takes over your thinking processes. But it would be better if you explained a little more why your answer is a no. To me it looks like Judas did what every person would do who has a strong sense of civic duty.

Judas ratted because he was trying to save his ass from the coming retribution against Jesus and his followers for defying the secular authorities and humiliating the religious elite ... just like any lowlife turncoat.

 

[hobelim]

Does Judas Iscariot, the betrayer the Jesus, play the role of champion of civic duty?

No..

An interesting thing to note is that unlike in the other gospels the only person that Jesus gives bread to during the last supper according to the gospel of John is Judas, as a way for Jesus to surreptitiously identify his betrayer to the faithful.

And, according to the story, as soon as Judas received the bread, Satan entered him.. John 13:27


What does that tell you?

You're batshit crazy?

Yes, absolutely nuckin futz, in a world where Jesus eaters are considered dedicated holy men.

Aside from that if anyone wearing robes chanting and burning incense offers you wine and crackers,

JUST SAY NO. .... 30 pieces of silver ain't worth it....

Unless, of course, you would like to be walking around like a corpse for decades...

 

[kjw47]

Does Judas Iscariot, the betrayer the Jesus, play the role of champion of civic duty?

Jesus broke a number of civic laws, especially the ones with religious connotations. Judas took money, sanctioned by civic laws, to destroy Jesus.

As opposed to civic laws, even the Old Testament says that we are each other's keepers. And the New Testament warns against civic mindedness in the horrors of the book of revelations.

Yet, as if wanting those horrors, people are increasingly proud of their civic duties. For example about reporting you for employing an illegal gardener.

Most professors put civic mindedness in contrast to religion, and point out that civic mindedness suffocates the religious mind.

Your take? And can people be saved from the dazzling false altar of civic mindedness and of civic duties?

Loyalty to God and his son is a gazillion x more important than loyalty to those who stand in opposition to them=mortal govts. Jesus will crush every one of them out of existence-Daniel 2:44

 

[Taz]

Does Judas Iscariot, the betrayer the Jesus, play the role of champion of civic duty?

No..

An interesting thing to note is that unlike in the other gospels the only person that Jesus gives bread to during the last supper according to the gospel of John is Judas, as a way for Jesus to surreptitiously identify his betrayer to the faithful.

And, according to the story, as soon as Judas received the bread, Satan entered him.. John 13:27


What does that tell you?

You're batshit crazy?

Yes, absolutely nuckin futz, in a world where Jesus eaters are considered dedicated holy men.

Aside from that if anyone wearing robes chanting and burning incense offers you wine and crackers,

JUST SAY NO. .... 30 pieces of silver ain't worth it....

Unless, of course, you would like to be walking around like a corpse for decades...

So I’m not already a corpse? Cool! Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[hobelim]

Does Judas Iscariot, the betrayer the Jesus, play the role of champion of civic duty?

No..

An interesting thing to note is that unlike in the other gospels the only person that Jesus gives bread to during the last supper according to the gospel of John is Judas, as a way for Jesus to surreptitiously identify his betrayer to the faithful.

And, according to the story, as soon as Judas received the bread, Satan entered him.. John 13:27


What does that tell you?

You're batshit crazy?

Yes, absolutely nuckin futz, in a world where Jesus eaters are considered dedicated holy men.

Aside from that if anyone wearing robes chanting and burning incense offers you wine and crackers,

JUST SAY NO. .... 30 pieces of silver ain't worth it....

Unless, of course, you would like to be walking around like a corpse for decades...

So I’m not already a corpse? Cool! Thanks for clearing that up.

Oh, C'mon now Taz, you can be honest...we're all friends here...

Didn't some brazen sanctimonious priest make you get down on your knees to shove the flesh of God down your throat when you were a just a tender and supple lad?

Yes?

Then you have been dead for a very very long time...Murdered by a ghoul. The power of death consequent to defying the law of God is extremely effective.

Many never recover.

Some people under the power of death are so far gone they don't even have an inkling how bizarre and demonic it looks to the immune for them to be at mass every week 'celebrating' the torture and death of Jesus, even after they read about what happened during the last supper according to the gospel of John a million times.

"As soon as Judas received the bread, Satan entered him."

 

[Meriweather]

Didn't some brazen holier than thou priest make you get down on your knees to shove the flesh of God down your throat when you were a just a tender and supple lad?

Yes?

Then you have been dead for a very very long time...Murdered by a ghoul. The power of death consequent to defying the law of God is extremely effective.

Many never recover.

Some people under its power are so far gone they don't even have an inkling how bizarre and demonic it looks to the immune for them to be at mass every week 'celebrating' the torture and death of Jesus, even after they read John 13:27 a million times.

"As soon as Judas received the bread, Satan entered him."

Leviticus 24:8 Showbread - Facebread - Bread of the Presence

Bread of the Presence was shaped with many sides (faces). It was a symbol of God's desire to enter into fellowship with His people. It was also a reminder that people's livelihood and food come from God. It served as a perpetual reminder of God's generosity and blessings when it comes to the material needs of humans. This bread was considered holy as it remained ever in the presence of the Lord. It was to be eaten and replaced each week by Aaron and his descendants (the priesthood) in a holy place.

Jesus was adamant that God's fellowship, presence--reign and kingdom--was for all people. Everyone, not just the priestly class, should be welcome to partake of the Bread of the Presence. The Eucharist is Christ's presence--body, blood, and divinity--which he said is to be offered to all. It is for those who hunger and thirst for the presence of the Lord in their lives.

 

[hobelim]

Didn't some brazen holier than thou priest make you get down on your knees to shove the flesh of God down your throat when you were a just a tender and supple lad?

Yes?

Then you have been dead for a very very long time...Murdered by a ghoul. The power of death consequent to defying the law of God is extremely effective.

Many never recover.

Some people under its power are so far gone they don't even have an inkling how bizarre and demonic it looks to the immune for them to be at mass every week 'celebrating' the torture and death of Jesus, even after they read John 13:27 a million times.

"As soon as Judas received the bread, Satan entered him."

Leviticus 24:8 Showbread - Facebread - Bread of the Presence

Bread of the Presence was shaped with many sides (faces). It was a symbol of God's desire to enter into fellowship with His people. It was also a reminder that people's livelihood and food come from God. It served as a perpetual reminder of God's generosity and blessings when it comes to the material needs of humans. This bread was considered holy as it remained ever in the presence of the Lord. It was to be eaten and replaced each week by Aaron and his descendants (the priesthood) in a holy place.

Jesus was adamant that God's fellowship, presence--reign and kingdom--was for all people. Everyone, not just the priestly class, should be welcome to partake of the Bread of the Presence. The Eucharist is Christ's presence--body, blood, and divinity--which he said is to be offered to all. It is for those who hunger and thirst for the presence of the Lord in their lives.

And then suddenly satan appears...

Ta da!


I will now explain the parable of the sower of the good seed........

 

[Meriweather]

Does Judas Iscariot, the betrayer the Jesus, play the role of champion of civic duty?

Some speculate that Judas' motive for betrayal was to put Jesus in a position where he would either be forced to use his miraculous powers and declare himself the Messianic king, or that Christ's arrest would incense the population so that they would riot, overthrow the Romans and declare Jesus their king.

Judas held the place of treasurer in Jesus' inner circle, so the benefits to him personally should Jesus be enthroned as king are obvious.

Events did not unfold as Judas envisioned...and he killed himself.

 

[Meriweather]

I will now explain the parable of the sower of the good seed........

Don't bother on my account. Also, keep in mind Judas seems to have left before the breaking of the final loaf.

 

[hobelim]

I will now explain the parable of the sower of the good seed........

Don't bother on my account. Also, keep in mind Judas seems to have left before the breaking of the final loaf.

No, Judas left after he was given bread. No one else was given bread during the last supper according to this account. This is no mistake or small point. All talk about eating his flesh and blood occurred before the last supper according to the gospel of John where Jesus clearly explained that his flesh was figurative for his words, his teaching.

"The spirit alone gives life; the flesh is of no avail. The words that I have spoken to you are both spirit and life."

The disciples even confirmed their belief in this when Jesus asked if they were going to leave him too after he explained himself.

"Lord, to whom shall we go? Your words are words of eternal life. We have faith and know that you are the Holy One of God."


See? the faithful disciples believed that eternal life was in receiving his words, the body of his teaching, because Jesus taught the only right way to understand and comply with divine law that fulfills the promise of eternal life.

There is no divine presence in consecrated bread.

When Judas received the bread, Satan entered him.


Aren't you a believer?

 

[hobelim]

Does Judas Iscariot, the betrayer the Jesus, play the role of champion of civic duty?

Some speculate that Judas' motive for betrayal was to put Jesus in a position where he would either be forced to use his miraculous powers and declare himself the Messianic king, or that Christ's arrest would incense the population so that they would riot, overthrow the Romans and declare Jesus their king.

Judas held the place of treasurer in Jesus' inner circle, so the benefits to him personally should Jesus be enthroned as king are obvious.

Events did not unfold as Judas envisioned...and he killed himself.

Hey, so you screwed up. You fell for some perverse Roman joke, an ancient scam that has ensnared and made destitute many people far more intelligent and dedicated than you.

Don't take it too hard and don't give up. There is a way for you to get your money back, but its never going to happen if you remain obstinate. Don't even try to deny the truth. To the living, your sin is as obvious as a white boulder in the middle of a plowed field.

Do the right thing and your sins will be forgiven.

 

[Taz]

Does Judas Iscariot, the betrayer the Jesus, play the role of champion of civic duty?

No..

An interesting thing to note is that unlike in the other gospels the only person that Jesus gives bread to during the last supper according to the gospel of John is Judas, as a way for Jesus to surreptitiously identify his betrayer to the faithful.

And, according to the story, as soon as Judas received the bread, Satan entered him.. John 13:27


What does that tell you?

You're batshit crazy?

Yes, absolutely nuckin futz, in a world where Jesus eaters are considered dedicated holy men.

Aside from that if anyone wearing robes chanting and burning incense offers you wine and crackers,

JUST SAY NO. .... 30 pieces of silver ain't worth it....

Unless, of course, you would like to be walking around like a corpse for decades...

So I’m not already a corpse? Cool! Thanks for clearing that up.

Oh, C'mon now Taz, you can be honest...we're all friends here...

Didn't some brazen sanctimonious priest make you get down on your knees to shove the flesh of God down your throat when you were a just a tender and supple lad?

Yes?

Then you have been dead for a very very long time...Murdered by a ghoul. The power of death consequent to defying the law of God is extremely effective.

Many never recover.

Some people under the power of death are so far gone they don't even have an inkling how bizarre and demonic it looks to the immune for them to be at mass every week 'celebrating' the torture and death of Jesus, even after they read about what happened during the last supper according to the gospel of John a million times.

"As soon as Judas received the bread, Satan entered him."

Do you really believe all that stuff you read your Big Book of Fiction, or are you just pulling my legs? Because they're starting to hurt.

 

[anotherlife]

I will now explain the parable of the sower of the good seed........

Don't bother on my account. Also, keep in mind Judas seems to have left before the breaking of the final loaf.

No, Judas left after he was given bread. No one else was given bread during the last supper according to this account. This is no mistake or small point. All talk about eating his flesh and blood occurred before the last supper according to the gospel of John where Jesus clearly explained that his flesh was figurative for his words, his teaching.

"The spirit alone gives life; the flesh is of no avail. The words that I have spoken to you are both spirit and life."

The disciples even confirmed their belief in this when Jesus asked if they were going to leave him too after he explained himself.

"Lord, to whom shall we go? Your words are words of eternal life. We have faith and know that you are the Holy One of God."


See? the faithful disciples believed that eternal life was in receiving his words, the body of his teaching, because Jesus taught the only right way to understand and comply with divine law that fulfills the promise of eternal life.

There is no divine presence in consecrated bread.

When Judas received the bread, Satan entered him.


Aren't you a believer?

Okay, so the bread, the flesh, although sacrificial, is not the life. But how does this lead to prompting Satan to enter judas at that point?

 

[hobelim]

Okay, so the bread, the flesh, although sacrificial, is not the life.

I said nothing about the flesh being sacrificial. The flesh of Jesus is a metaphor for teaching from God, a body of teaching that came to Jesus like manna from heaven, the preexisting metaphor, and became his flesh, teaching, given for the life of the world.

But how does this lead to prompting Satan to enter judas at that point?

"This, he told me, is the curse which goes out over the whole land; for by the writing on one side every thief shall be swept clean away. And by the writing on the other side, every perjurer shall be swept clean away.

I have sent it out, the Lord of Hosts has said, and it shall enter the house of the thief and the house of the man who has perjured himself in my name.

It shall stay inside that house and demolish it, timbers and stones and all."

 

[hobelim]

No..

An interesting thing to note is that unlike in the other gospels the only person that Jesus gives bread to during the last supper according to the gospel of John is Judas, as a way for Jesus to surreptitiously identify his betrayer to the faithful.

And, according to the story, as soon as Judas received the bread, Satan entered him.. John 13:27


What does that tell you?

You're batshit crazy?

Yes, absolutely nuckin futz, in a world where Jesus eaters are considered dedicated holy men.

Aside from that if anyone wearing robes chanting and burning incense offers you wine and crackers,

JUST SAY NO. .... 30 pieces of silver ain't worth it....

Unless, of course, you would like to be walking around like a corpse for decades...

So I’m not already a corpse? Cool! Thanks for clearing that up.

Oh, C'mon now Taz, you can be honest...we're all friends here...

Didn't some brazen sanctimonious priest make you get down on your knees to shove the flesh of God down your throat when you were a just a tender and supple lad?

Yes?

Then you have been dead for a very very long time...Murdered by a ghoul. The power of death consequent to defying the law of God is extremely effective.

Many never recover.

Some people under the power of death are so far gone they don't even have an inkling how bizarre and demonic it looks to the immune for them to be at mass every week 'celebrating' the torture and death of Jesus, even after they read about what happened during the last supper according to the gospel of John a million times.

"As soon as Judas received the bread, Satan entered him."

Do you really believe all that stuff you read your Big Book of Fiction, or are you just pulling my legs? Because they're starting to hurt.

You can't believe everything you read taz, but if you understand what you read, whats not to believe?

But no, I am not fooling around. I've already had more fun than anyone has a right to..


The truth, the very truth, is that you died a very long time ago; murdered by a ghoul. So taz it really doesn't matter how old you are or how messed up your body is.

As long as you have a body you have a chance to be healed and become whole before you face eternity all scattered and agitated like the scarecrow whose guts have been ripped out by flying monkeys...

Try not to fuck it up.

 

[Taz]

You're batshit crazy?

Yes, absolutely nuckin futz, in a world where Jesus eaters are considered dedicated holy men.

Aside from that if anyone wearing robes chanting and burning incense offers you wine and crackers,

JUST SAY NO. .... 30 pieces of silver ain't worth it....

Unless, of course, you would like to be walking around like a corpse for decades...

So I’m not already a corpse? Cool! Thanks for clearing that up.

Oh, C'mon now Taz, you can be honest...we're all friends here...

Didn't some brazen sanctimonious priest make you get down on your knees to shove the flesh of God down your throat when you were a just a tender and supple lad?

Yes?

Then you have been dead for a very very long time...Murdered by a ghoul. The power of death consequent to defying the law of God is extremely effective.

Many never recover.

Some people under the power of death are so far gone they don't even have an inkling how bizarre and demonic it looks to the immune for them to be at mass every week 'celebrating' the torture and death of Jesus, even after they read about what happened during the last supper according to the gospel of John a million times.

"As soon as Judas received the bread, Satan entered him."

Do you really believe all that stuff you read your Big Book of Fiction, or are you just pulling my legs? Because they're starting to hurt.

You can't believe everything you read taz, but if you understand what you read, whats not to believe?

But no, I am not fooling around. I've already had more fun than anyone has a right to..


The truth, the very truth, is that you died a very long time ago; murdered by a ghoul. So taz it really doesn't matter how old you are or how messed up your body is.

As long as you have a body you have a chance to be healed and become whole before you face eternity all scattered and agitated like the scarecrow whose guts have been ripped out by flying monkeys...

Try not to fuck it up.

I read in the paper once about a Hell's Angel who was given a church service and burial. So they asked the priest how they could give a murderer, drug dealer... a church ceremony... So the priest said something to the effect that the guy MAY have repented a nano second before he died.

I'm going with that.