Judaism and zionism are extreme opposites

I know you guys would rather derail this thread than face the truth, but the truth is important. Let's move back to the topic and what we learned from the OP.


9ef4796735c948c6b317dd74b7348c4b.jpg


Over 10,000 Orthodox Jews protesting the existence of the state of Israel, and the recent beating of Orthodox Jews who protested in Israel against the uprooting of Jewish cemeteries of antiquity which was done in order to enable the construction of a highway #6, near Haifa, Israel – protest in front of the Israeli consulate New York City, Thursday, April 28, 2005


10,000 Demonstrate in NYC Against Israel on April 28, 2005

good.jpg


This simple truth will not go away.

Is there anything from this decade you can cut and paste?
Of course, silly, Judaism has been around for 1000s of years and doesn't change just because fake Jews steal Palestine, carry out a mass slaughter of countless human beings and rename it to Israel.

This here is from 27 March 2017, just a few weeks ago...

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2.jpg


3.jpg


5.jpg


4.jpg
 
Achmed, according to your own holy book the Koran, your God, Allah, promised the holy land of Israel to the Jews, forever. What are you babbling?
 
Achmed, according to your own holy book the Koran, your God, Allah, promised the holy land of Israel to the Jews, forever. What are you babbling?
A) You missed the memo, I'm a Jew.

B) Wow! I thought I could have posted here forever, and would never see you post something that was accurate. Well done.

C) All the Abrahamic religions believe that and THAT IS THE POINT! The zionists changed the part about remaining AS LOYAL CITIZENS IN THE COUNTRIES WE RESIDE in during our diaspora until He - AND ONLY HE - returns us. Beyond that, the zionists forgot the part about not killing, not lying, and not stealing - LET ALONE THE HOLY LAND!

Until you realize that G-d did not want His Aryan, European, Jewish converts to claim Palestine as theirs and then start murdering all his darker skinned children, you have no right to call yourself Jewish, let alone call that land "Israel."
 
Maybe this will be an easier way for you to understand this.

Traditional Jews oppose the so-called "State of Israel" for four reasons.

We had a thread here which is now elsewhere apparently, but here they are...

FIRST -- The so-called "State of Israel" is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the People of Israel, as is explained above. The only time that the People of Israel were permitted to have a state was two thousand years ago when the glory of the creator was upon us, and likewise in the future when the glory of the creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him, then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service. However, a worldly state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substitutes another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation," and the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize a land and army. However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. This is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

SECOND -- Because of all of this and other reasons the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

THIRD -- Aside from arising from exile, all the deeds of the Zionists are diametrically opposed to the Faith and the Torah. Because the foundation of the Faith and Torah of Israel is that the Torah was revealed from heaven, and there is reward for those who obey it and punishment for those who transgress it. The entire People of Israel is required to obey the Torah, and whoever doesn't want to, ceases to be part of the congregation of Israel.

FOURTH -- Aside from the fact that they themselves do not obey the Torah they do everything they can to prevent anyone they get under their power from fulfilling the commands of the Torah, the claims to freedom of religion are lies. They fight with all of their strength to destroy the Faith of Israel.

Why Orthodox Jews are Opposed to the Zionist State

First, can you disagree with any of that? And secondly, compare that with what the zionists have turned that into...

jewgXihWIAAKkcr.jpg

 
Maybe this will be an easier way for you to understand this.

Traditional Jews oppose the so-called "State of Israel" for four reasons.

We had a thread here which is now elsewhere apparently, but here they are...

FIRST -- The so-called "State of Israel" is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the People of Israel, as is explained above. The only time that the People of Israel were permitted to have a state was two thousand years ago when the glory of the creator was upon us, and likewise in the future when the glory of the creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him, then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service. However, a worldly state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substitutes another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation," and the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize a land and army. However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. This is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

SECOND -- Because of all of this and other reasons the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

THIRD -- Aside from arising from exile, all the deeds of the Zionists are diametrically opposed to the Faith and the Torah. Because the foundation of the Faith and Torah of Israel is that the Torah was revealed from heaven, and there is reward for those who obey it and punishment for those who transgress it. The entire People of Israel is required to obey the Torah, and whoever doesn't want to, ceases to be part of the congregation of Israel.

FOURTH -- Aside from the fact that they themselves do not obey the Torah they do everything they can to prevent anyone they get under their power from fulfilling the commands of the Torah, the claims to freedom of religion are lies. They fight with all of their strength to destroy the Faith of Israel.

Why Orthodox Jews are Opposed to the Zionist State

First, can you disagree with any of that? And secondly, compare that with what the zionists have turned that into...

jewgXihWIAAKkcr.jpg
The last time God told Joshua to conquer the Land, Joshua was commanded to exterminate all the inhabitants.
Since you seem to be so in line with God, I was wondering how you feel about that piece of historical fact.
 
Achmed, according to your own holy book the Koran, your God, Allah, promised the holy land of Israel to the Jews, forever. What are you babbling?
A) You missed the memo, I'm a Jew.

B) Wow! I thought I could have posted here forever, and would never see you post something that was accurate. Well done.

C) All the Abrahamic religions believe that and THAT IS THE POINT! The zionists changed the part about remaining AS LOYAL CITIZENS IN THE COUNTRIES WE RESIDE in during our diaspora until He - AND ONLY HE - returns us. Beyond that, the zionists forgot the part about not killing, not lying, and not stealing - LET ALONE THE HOLY LAND!

Until you realize that G-d did not want His Aryan, European, Jewish converts to claim Palestine as theirs and then start murdering all his darker skinned children, you have no right to call yourself Jewish, let alone call that land "Israel."
The "Zionists" did enter the promised land, in the Story of Exodus about 3000 years ago, which is what modern Zionism and Judaism is based on. The land was promised by by G-d to the Jewish people, eternally. And all three faiths agree on this. There is no Palestine or Palestinian people in the Koran Achmed. Which is the most recent "record" since the Koran is about 1400 years old. That makes your Muhammad a Zionist. :rofl:
 
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Maybe this will be an easier way for you to understand this.

Traditional Jews oppose the so-called "State of Israel" for four reasons.

We had a thread here which is now elsewhere apparently, but here they are...

FIRST -- The so-called "State of Israel" is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the People of Israel, as is explained above. The only time that the People of Israel were permitted to have a state was two thousand years ago when the glory of the creator was upon us, and likewise in the future when the glory of the creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him, then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service. However, a worldly state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substitutes another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation," and the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize a land and army. However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. This is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

SECOND -- Because of all of this and other reasons the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

THIRD -- Aside from arising from exile, all the deeds of the Zionists are diametrically opposed to the Faith and the Torah. Because the foundation of the Faith and Torah of Israel is that the Torah was revealed from heaven, and there is reward for those who obey it and punishment for those who transgress it. The entire People of Israel is required to obey the Torah, and whoever doesn't want to, ceases to be part of the congregation of Israel.

FOURTH -- Aside from the fact that they themselves do not obey the Torah they do everything they can to prevent anyone they get under their power from fulfilling the commands of the Torah, the claims to freedom of religion are lies. They fight with all of their strength to destroy the Faith of Israel.

Why Orthodox Jews are Opposed to the Zionist State

First, can you disagree with any of that? And secondly, compare that with what the zionists have turned that into...

jewgXihWIAAKkcr.jpg
Read the Koran! Ha ha ha.

THE QUR'AN SAYS THAT ALLAH GAVE THE LAND OF ISRAEL TO THE JEWS


THE QUR'AN SAYS:

"To Moses We [Allah] gave nine clear signs. Ask the Israelites how he [Moses] first appeared amongst them. Pharoah said to him: 'Moses, I can see that you are bewitched.' 'You know full well,' he [Moses] replied, 'that none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth has revealed these visible signs. Pharoah, you are doomed.'"

"Pharoah sought to scare them [the Israelites] out of the land [of Israel]: but We [Allah] drowned him [Pharoah] together with all who were with him. Then We [Allah] said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in this land [the Land of Israel]. When the promise of the hereafter [End of Days] comes to be fulfilled, We [Allah] shall assemble you [the Israelites] all together [in the Land of Israel]."

"We [Allah] have revealed the Qur'an with the truth, and with the truth it has come down. We have sent you [Muhammed] forth only to proclaim good news and to give warning."

THE LAND OF ISRAEL IN QUR'ANIC EXEGESIS

The fundamentalist Muslim program to use Islam as an instrument for political warfare against Jews finds a major obstacle in the Qur'an itself. Both the Bible and the Qur'an state quite clearly that the right of the Israelites to the Land of Israel does not depend on conquest and colonization. This right flows from the will of almighty God Himself.

Both the Jewish and Islamic Scriptures teach that God, through His chosen servant Moses, decided to free the offspring of Jacob from slavery in Egypt and to constitute them as heirs of the Promised Land. Whoever claims that Jewish sovereignty over the Land of Israel is something new and rooted in human politics denies divine revelation and divine prophecy as explicitly expressed in our Holy Books (the Bible and Koran).

The Qur'an relates the words by which Moses ordered the Israelites to conquer the Land:

"And [remember] when Moses said to his people: 'O my people, call in remembrance the favour of God unto you, when he produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave to you what He had not given to any other among the peoples. O my people, enter the Holy Land which God has assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin.'" [Qur'an 5:20-21]

Moreover - and those who try to use Islam as a weapon against Israel always conveniently ignore this point - the Holy Qur'an explicitly refers to the return of the Jews to the Land of Israel before the Last Judgment - where it says: "And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd.'" [Qur'an 17:104]

Therefore, from an Islamic point of view, there is NO fundamental reason which prohibits Muslims from recognizing Israel as a friendly State.

JERUSALEM IN THE QUR'AN

The most common argument against Muslim acknowledgment of Israeli sovereignty over Jerusalem is that, since al-Quds [Jerusalem] (4) is a Holy Place for Muslims, Muslims cannot accept that it is ruled by non-Muslims, because such acceptance amounts to a betrayal of Islam.

Before expressing our point of view on this question, we must reflect upon the reason for which Jerusalem and Masjid al-Aqsa [the Al Aksa mosque] hold such a sacred position in Islamic faith.

As is well known, the inclusion of Jerusalem among Islamic holy places derives from al-Mi'raj, the Ascension of the Prophet Muhammed to heaven. The Ascension began at the Rock, usually identified by Muslim scholars as the Foundation Stone of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem referred to in Jewish sources.

Recalling this link requires us to admit that there is no connection between al-Miraj [the Ascension] and Muslim sovereign rights over Jerusalem since, in the time that al-Miraj took place, the City was not under Islamic, but under Byzantine administration. Moreover, the Qur'an expressly recognizes that Jerusalem plays for Jews the same role that Mecca does for Muslims.

We read:

"...They would not follow thy direction of prayer (qiblah), nor art thou to follow their direction of prayer; nor indeed will they follow each other's direction of prayer..." (5)

All Qur'anic commentators explain that "thy qiblah" [direction of prayer for Muslims] is clearly the Ka'bah of Mecca, while "their qiblah" [direction of prayer for Jews] refers to the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

To quote only one of the most important Muslim commentators, we read in Qadn Baydawn's Commentary:

"Verily, in their prayers Jews orientate themselves toward the Rock (sakhrah), while Christians orientate themselves eastwards..." (6)

In complete opposition to what "Islamic" fundamentalists continuously claim, the Book of Islam [the Qur'an] - as we have just now seen - recognizes Jerusalem as the Jewish direction of prayer.

Some Muslim commentators also quote the Book of Daniel (7) as a proof for this.

After reviewing the relevant Qur'anic passages concerning this matter, I conclude that, as no one denies Muslims complete sovereignty over Mecca, from an Islamic point of view - despite opposing, groundless claims - there is no reason for Muslims to deny the State of Israel - which is a JEWISH state - complete sovereignty over Jerusalem.
 
Actually there is no Judaism without Zionism.

Now the Lord said to Abram, “Go from your country and your kindred and your father’s house to the land that I will show you. And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.” (Genesis 12:1-3 ESV)

And he brought him outside and said, “Look toward heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to number them.” Then he said to him, “So shall your offspring be.” And he believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness. And he said to him, “I am the Lord who brought you out from Ur of the Chaldeans to give you this land to possess.” (Genesis 15:5-7 ESV)

Not only that, but many understand this claim to the land to be permanent:

And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your offspring after you. And I will give to you and to your offspring after you the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their God. (Genesis 17:7-8 ESV)
 
I know you guys would rather derail this thread than face the truth, but the truth is important. Let's move back to the topic and what we learned from the OP.


9ef4796735c948c6b317dd74b7348c4b.jpg


Over 10,000 Orthodox Jews protesting the existence of the state of Israel, and the recent beating of Orthodox Jews who protested in Israel against the uprooting of Jewish cemeteries of antiquity which was done in order to enable the construction of a highway #6, near Haifa, Israel – protest in front of the Israeli consulate New York City, Thursday, April 28, 2005


10,000 Demonstrate in NYC Against Israel on April 28, 2005

good.jpg


This simple truth will not go away.

Is there anything from this decade you can cut and paste?
Of course, silly, Judaism has been around for 1000s of years and doesn't change just because fake Jews steal Palestine, carry out a mass slaughter of countless human beings and rename it to Israel.

This here is from 27 March 2017, just a few weeks ago...

1.jpg


2.jpg


3.jpg


5.jpg


4.jpg

That was stereotypical. You rattled on with a lot of incoherent stuttering and mumbling followed by dumping a lot of cut and paste photos of unknown origin and authenticity.
 
Maybe this will be an easier way for you to understand this.

Traditional Jews oppose the so-called "State of Israel" for four reasons.

We had a thread here which is now elsewhere apparently, but here they are...

FIRST -- The so-called "State of Israel" is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the People of Israel, as is explained above. The only time that the People of Israel were permitted to have a state was two thousand years ago when the glory of the creator was upon us, and likewise in the future when the glory of the creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him, then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service. However, a worldly state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substitutes another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation," and the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize a land and army. However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. This is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

SECOND -- Because of all of this and other reasons the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

THIRD -- Aside from arising from exile, all the deeds of the Zionists are diametrically opposed to the Faith and the Torah. Because the foundation of the Faith and Torah of Israel is that the Torah was revealed from heaven, and there is reward for those who obey it and punishment for those who transgress it. The entire People of Israel is required to obey the Torah, and whoever doesn't want to, ceases to be part of the congregation of Israel.

FOURTH -- Aside from the fact that they themselves do not obey the Torah they do everything they can to prevent anyone they get under their power from fulfilling the commands of the Torah, the claims to freedom of religion are lies. They fight with all of their strength to destroy the Faith of Israel.

Why Orthodox Jews are Opposed to the Zionist State

First, can you disagree with any of that? And secondly, compare that with what the zionists have turned that into...

jewgXihWIAAKkcr.jpg
1. Seems right but too relgiously-idealistic and judgemental. Judaism deals with this world. We're humans not angels.

2.You don't undestand 'Solomon's promise' because You never rely on the original text in the Torah itself.
Vayoel Moshe is NOT the Torah, it's a book written for a small sect some 40 yrs ago.

3. Totally WRONG- the book of Hosea can teach You new stuff about how G-d views sinners. Moreover the meaning of commandments is clear for anyone with basic
Hebrew understanding- but You seem to prefer the Christian version of things...hmmm why?

4. Frankists and Sabbateans. Are You sure You're not being lead by those same people that Baal Shem Tov fought?
However funny 'cause it's coming from a guy who mistakes the Kippur for Passover and calls himself a "Jews"- You know who I'm talking about louie?
 
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Thanks for that load of shit; that didn't even respond to what you quoted.

Anyways... more PROOF:

Ultra-Orthodox politicians vow to fight move and bypass the court, saying decision desecrates Jewish values

In landmark ruling, High Court says Tel Aviv mini-markets can open on Shabbat

I see what You mean. But what's new?

Millions of Jews will keep this Shabbos and the next by the mere chance of living here in Israel, being exposed to the Jewish tradition.
Even more will keep Yom Kippur for the rest of their lives.

Some choose 'Din', I choose 'Rhamim'.
Which do You prefer for Yourself?
 
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No need to post walls of text and yes, Jews should and they do know this. Traditional Jews like Satmar and many other orthodox, reform and conservative Jews believe things like:
--Thou shalt not kill
--Don't steal
--Don't lie
--And beyond that that we are to remain in our diaspora until G-d returns us to our promised land.
The Lubavitcher "Jews" believe and act to the antithesis of these simple concepts that have been Judaism since there has been Judaism. "Jews" of great wealth and power are tied to these sociopaths and directly to Israel. Ttaking land by force, obviously is the antithesis of what G-d conveyed to us...
YOU Dishonest POS.
The reason some of the Ultra-Orthodox cult members like you (Neturei Karta, etc) are anti-zionist, is they don't believe there should be a Jewish State until the Messiah comes. Period. (ergo they mock Jesus too)

It has NOTHING to with morality. territory, occupation, etc.
The rest is dishonest window-dressing/excuses.
Most of the less religious/less freaked out Orthodox Jews are the most ardent Settlers.
`
 
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No need to post walls of text and yes, Jews should and they do know this. Traditional Jews like Satmar and many other orthodox, reform and conservative Jews believe things like:
--Thou shalt not kill
--Don't steal
--Don't lie
--And beyond that that we are to remain in our diaspora until G-d returns us to our promised land.
The Lubavitcher "Jews" believe and act to the antithesis of these simple concepts that have been Judaism since there has been Judaism. "Jews" of great wealth and power are tied to these sociopaths and directly to Israel. Ttaking land by force, obviously is the antithesis of what G-d conveyed to us...
YOU Dishonest POS.
The reason some of the Ultra-Orthodox cult members like you (Neturei Karta, etc) are anti-zionist, is they don't believe there should be a Jewish State until the Messiah comes. Period. (ergo they mock Jesus too)

It has NOTHING to with morality. territory, occupation, etc.
The rest is dishonest window-dressing/excuses.
Most of the less religious/less freaked out Orthodox Jews are the most ardent Settlers.
`
And yet, they disregard their own Koran, which explicitly says the land belongs to the Jews. Go figure. :cuckoo:
 

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