John Kerry: War Hero

[Billo_Really]

Excellent strategy. When compared to a small child throwing a temper tantrum, throw an even BIGGER tantrum.



I showed you the truth of the alleged Collateral Murder video, and you preferred to believe the edited tape Assange released.

You're not interested in the truth. All you have is dogma and agenda and programming. You're dull-witted and slow. You're incapable of thinking for yourself.

Get to bed early tonight, kid. You have school tomorrow.

How can you say I'm not interested in the truth, when I watched your video (in its entirety) twice?

And the Assange video has nothing to do with my comment that your video doesn't prove what you claim it does.

BTW, you still haven't commented on the van getting shot up when they were tending to the wounded. Why can't you comment on that, you fuckin' coward?

 

[Wildman]

Was watching a program where they were showing Kerry testifying before a Senate committee in the '70's where he called American troops war criminals and baby killers. The truth about Kerry was he was a gutless coward. The policy at the time he was in Viet Nam was that if you were awarded 3 Purple Hearts you got sent home. Kerry served a total of 120 days in country on a gunboat. He was awarded 3 Purple Hearts but did not spend 1 day in a field hospital. How is that possible? He was sent home, joined a group of veterans against the war, led protests and threw his medals over the fence at the Whitehouse. That made him enough of a hero to the commies in the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts to get him elected to the senate. Now the SOB is the Secretary of State. Great job America!

IF THERE EVER WERE A MODERN AMERICAN MILITARY TRAITOR.., J.F. KERRY WOULD BE NUMBER 1

"he was a gutless coward"..., STILL IS

cowards always claim band aid scratches as PH worthy

FACT: he never threw HIS medals over any fence, he threw some medals someone gave to him

don't blame America, blame those Massachewshit commies for this traitor being where he is

 

[Wildman]

Whenever someone tries to criticize John Kerry, this is all they can ever come up with. Last I checked, it is not a crime to be be critical of a military operation, especially something like Vietnam. I have not seen the footage of Kerry, and if he actually said that every soldier is a war criminal, then he shouldn't have made such a blanket statement. However, there were certainly various crimes committed by our soldiers in Vietnam. In terms of throwing his medals over the fence, if a man wins a medal and doesn't want it, feels he doesn't deserve it, or whatever, I think it's his choice to do with it as he pleases. Kerry was not the only returning soldier to protest the war; there were thousands.

I don't particularly like the man, but the smear campaign against him and his role in the Vietnam War is, I think, a joke, not to mention irrelevant. Criticize him on his policy and his actions today, not something from forty years ago.

This is all they can come up with? Isn't it enough? It's obvious you've never served or you would comprehend just what this scumbag did. First, he slimed his way out of Viet Nam by faking wounds to get 3 Purple Hearts in just 120 days while serving on a gunboat. Not one of these "wounds" caused hospitalization. Secondly, there were a couple of million men who served in Viet Nam, so "thousands" protesting is a tiny number. There are crimes committed in all wars by all sides but I guarantee you that Americans commit the fewest of any. He deserves more than a smear campaign for labeling our soldiers war criminals and to say that it is a joke and irrelevant says that even if you did serve, you are a blame America firster.

Your third sentence is already bullshit.

Kerry still carries the shrapnel of one of his war wound..it's inoperable.

An absolving America of war crimes in a country it never should have invaded..is well..beyond reprehensible.

THAT IS PURE BULLSHIT

PROVE IT !!!!

 

[Wildman]

I read somewhere that Ronald Reagan gave money to bloodthirsty terrorists that raped, tortured and murdered 3 American Nuns.

4 Salvadorans Say They Killed U.S. Nuns on Orders of Military - New York Times

Oh yeah..and there's the link.

why do dirt bag filthy scumbags have to scrape the bottom of the barrel for something President Ronald Reagan ALLEGEDLY said or done ? can't you find something more current ?

i pity you for your lack of intelligence.

 

[Wildman]

I think the main lesson here is that there are far, far more important things to debate and discuss in this forum, in my opinion, than John Kerry's "crimes". He went to war, didn't want to be there, may or may not have hurt himself or exaggerated his injuries in order to get out of the war, and, forty (emphasis on FORTY) years later, he is our Secretary of State. I see very little relevance between his actions during and post Vietnam War to his role as a Senator, former presidential candidate, or as Secretary of State. He had a conviction that the war is wrong, and that the people who participated were wrong. That's his opinion.

he is still a TRAITOR

 

[The Gadfly]

Doc, I once again am not trying to defend Kerry. I don't care about the man. I just think some of his testimony has been misinterpreted or exaggerated, and that if you talked to the man today, he would not just piss all over Vietnam veterans like they're trash. I'm also very aware that there were many Americans who treated veterans very poorly, and I don't support that. I have watched/read pretty much all of Kerry's two-hour congressional testimony, and I saw very little evidence that he considered every single soldier a criminal. As I mentioned before, there were many things he brought up in his testimony which showed his support of veterans.

Also, once again, I am well aware that there were crimes committed by the VC and NVA, as all wars have crimes committed by both sides. And yes, those should be mentioned as well. However, those do not justify things that we may have done. I'm not saying we were WORSE or that we were BETTER, but there's nothing wrong with admitting that there were mistakes made. I'd be the last one to say that all Vietnam veterans are criminals. That's ridiculous.

We still arguing over this? OK, let's all take a deep breath, and think about why we are doing that. There are a few of us here, who actually fought in Vietnam, and a few more who were actually around back here in the states at the time, and old enough to understand some of what was going on there. There are a lot more here who likely were not even born until after our war was just a memory. Nothing is going to change the opinions of those of us who went to Vietnam back then, or those who stayed home. We lived it, and we have our emotions connected to it; some of those emotions are still pretty strong, and maybe always will be. This is primarily for the rest of you, still making partisan political hay of one kind or another over us, our war, and the ones who protested it.

Those of us who fought in Vietnam are all old now, most of us past sixty. Before we're all gone, there's something I'd like to say to those of you who think you know all about it, from the history books, the old newsreels, and the movies. Whatever our ethnic background, whatever our social class, whether we volunteered or were drafted, we were mostly young, scared, and trying to survive a year fighting in a strange place halfway around the globe. Most of us managed to find a few moments of laughter and cheer in uncomfortable surroundings, but most of the time, we were uncomfortable, dirty, bug-bitten, and sleep-deprived. Boredom alternated with horror, and moments of sheer terror. Sometimes, it wasn't easy to even tell who the enemy was; the line between combatant and non-combatant was often blurred; some things were cut-and-dried, a lot more weren't. Heroes? You want the plain truth? I don't think ANY of us felt much like heroes; we were too damn busy trying to stay alive, or keep each other alive, to worry about it. I don't recall any of us having too many thoughts about the flag, glory, or God, country, motherhood and apple pie, in the middle of a firefight. We won, on the battlefield; what we won otherwise, is something else we've argued about for forty years. All I'm really sure of is that 58,274 of our brothers and 9 of our sisters died for it, and the rest of us felt damn lucky to have survived it. Did they, and we, do all that, so someone today can run for political office on the medals he received, or someone else can call one politician a traitor, or another a "chickenhawk", depending on whether he did, or din't serve, and where? Sometimes, it makes me feel like a bunch of vultures are circling the carcass of our war, picking at the bones of the dead, and picking the scabs off the wounds of the living ; and I have to ask, is that what they died for, and what we lived for? I ask, because sometimes, it feels like that process stains the little bit of honor that's been lost in all the recriminations and counter-recriminations, and it makes me feel just a little dirty, and a little sick.

So excuse me when I say I wish we could just stop, and think about not doing this anymore, and maybe letting the dead rest in peace, and the wounded heal, if they can. I guess even that's too much to ask, and this won't change things, anymore than all the bickering over who is or isn't a "hero" will. So go ahead, if you have to; but dammit, sometimes, it hurts, just the same.

Kerry should make you feel a little dirty and a little sick and at ain't about a bunch of vultures. He dishonored you and apparently your political affiliation gets in the way of understanding what he did. Quit the crying bullshit and stick to the topic.

I understand EXACTLY what Mr. Kerry did, Whitehall. I didn't agree with his actions then (lying about your brothers-in-arms, no matter how noble the supposed reason is or is not, is still LYING!), and don't agree with his politics now. I'm just sick of arguing over who is or isn't a hero, or who did or didn't deserve a medal, or any of that, when I know that others sacrificed so much, so those of us who did make it home could, and they never got a damn thing for it but a PH and a flag on their coffin for their next-of-kin. I'm just tired; tired of their sacrifice and our blood, sweat and tears being a damn political football, for either side. That's one thing I didn't fight for. That is all.

 

[The Gadfly]

I think the main lesson here is that there are far, far more important things to debate and discuss in this forum, in my opinion, than John Kerry's "crimes". He went to war, didn't want to be there, may or may not have hurt himself or exaggerated his injuries in order to get out of the war, and, forty (emphasis on FORTY) years later, he is our Secretary of State. I see very little relevance between his actions during and post Vietnam War to his role as a Senator, former presidential candidate, or as Secretary of State. He had a conviction that the war is wrong, and that the people who participated were wrong. That's his opinion.

His opinion, he's entitled to; lying about his brothers-in-arms to promote that opinion is what I take issue with. I don't know about his actions in-country; I didn't see them; but the reason the other conduct is politically relevant, is that he ran for office campaigning on his status as a Vietnam combat vet, AFTER the falsehoods he procured slandered the rest of us. I guess I'm just tired of seeing all the real sacrifice I saw, being used to score political points, whether that's being done by some of our own, or even worse, by people who weren't ever there, but judge us all as either heroes or villains, without even understanding what it was like, or how we felt about it.

 

[PrometheusBound]

You're also a lying sack of shit.

You're lying about which side you are on. It's obvious that you are a Left winger coming on here to make Right wingers look stupid. Although I am an Independent, I have to congratulate your Left Wing guru for his effective mentoring of you on how to discredit the whole Right Wing. With your drooling posts, the whole world will think that Bushwhackoffs are inbred congenital idiots.

Independent? Yeah right, Comrade. Next you'll be telling us you served in the military.

More proof that you people must be Leftists pretending to be Chickenhawk-lovers in order to make your enemies seem like bootlicking Bushbots in denial, lashing out at everybody who respects those who actually fought for their country. But we know better, that all the real Conservatives here are willing to make sacrifices for their fellow Americans. You obviously have no compassion, so you have to be a fake from the Left Wing clinic. That mighty combat veteran and family man, Rush Limbaugh, warned us against such agents provocateurs. And he wasn't even doped up on oxycodone when he dittoed that into our brains!

 

[Warrior102]

You're lying about which side you are on. It's obvious that you are a Left winger coming on here to make Right wingers look stupid. Although I am an Independent, I have to congratulate your Left Wing guru for his effective mentoring of you on how to discredit the whole Right Wing. With your drooling posts, the whole world will think that Bushwhackoffs are inbred congenital idiots.

Independent? Yeah right, Comrade. Next you'll be telling us you served in the military.

More proof that you people must be Leftists pretending to be Chickenhawk-lovers in order to make your enemies seem like bootlicking Bushbots in denial, lashing out at everybody who respects those who actually fought for their country. But we know better, that all the real Conservatives here are willing to make sacrifices for their fellow Americans. You obviously have no compassion, so you have to be a fake from the Left Wing clinic. That mighty combat veteran and family man, Rush Limbaugh, warned us against such agents provocateurs. And he wasn't even doped up on oxycodone when he dittoed that into our brains!

I served in the military for 23 years, nutsack.
When/where did you serve?

 

[PrometheusBound]

"All that being said, I for one do not think
Massacre at Hue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/quo

We still arguing over this? OK, let's all take a deep breath, and think about why we are doing that. There are a few of us here, who actually fought in Vietnam, and a few more who were actually around back here in the states at the time, and old enough to understand some of what was going on there. There are a lot more here who likely were not even born until after our war was just a memory. Nothing is going to change the opinions of those of us who went to Vietnam back then, or those who stayed home. We lived it, and we have our emotions connected to it; some of those emotions are still pretty strong, and maybe always will be. This is primarily for the rest of you, still making partisan political hay of one kind or another over us, our war, and the ones who protested it.

Those of us who fought in Vietnam are all old now, most of us past sixty. Before we're all gone, there's something I'd like to say to those of you who think you know all about it, from the history books, the old newsreels, and the movies. Whatever our ethnic background, whatever our social class, whether we volunteered or were drafted, we were mostly young, scared, and trying to survive a year fighting in a strange place halfway around the globe. Most of us managed to find a few moments of laughter and cheer in uncomfortable surroundings, but most of the time, we were uncomfortable, dirty, bug-bitten, and sleep-deprived. Boredom alternated with horror, and moments of sheer terror. Sometimes, it wasn't easy to even tell who the enemy was; the line between combatant and non-combatant was often blurred; some things were cut-and-dried, a lot more weren't. Heroes? You want the plain truth? I don't think ANY of us felt much like heroes; we were too damn busy trying to stay alive, or keep each other alive, to worry about it. I don't recall any of us having too many thoughts about the flag, glory, or God, country, motherhood and apple pie, in the middle of a firefight. We won, on the battlefield; what we won otherwise, is something else we've argued about for forty years. All I'm really sure of is that 58,274 of our brothers and 9 of our sisters died for it, and the rest of us felt damn lucky to have survived it. Did they, and we, do all that, so someone today can run for political office on the medals he received, or someone else can call one politician a traitor, or another a "chickenhawk", depending on whether he did, or din't serve, and where? Sometimes, it makes me feel like a bunch of vultures are circling the carcass of our war, picking at the bones of the dead, and picking the scabs off the wounds of the living ; and I have to ask, is that what they died for, and what we lived for? I ask, because sometimes, it feels like that process stains the little bit of honor that's been lost in all the recriminations and counter-recriminations, and it makes me feel just a little dirty, and a little sick.

So excuse me when I say I wish we could just stop, and think about not doing this anymore, and maybe letting the dead rest in peace, and the wounded heal, if they can. I guess even that's too much to ask, and this won't change things, anymore than all the bickering over who is or isn't a "hero" will. So go ahead, if you have to; but dammit, sometimes, it hurts, just the same.

I'll stop when those who died in the place of that privileged trash come back to life. Or better yet, when there's a wall for Chickenhawks who finally paid for their crimes. The men I served with were worth far more than the flag-waving draftdodgers and most of them were only twenty years old.

 

[whitehall]

We still arguing over this? OK, let's all take a deep breath, and think about why we are doing that. There are a few of us here, who actually fought in Vietnam, and a few more who were actually around back here in the states at the time, and old enough to understand some of what was going on there. There are a lot more here who likely were not even born until after our war was just a memory. Nothing is going to change the opinions of those of us who went to Vietnam back then, or those who stayed home. We lived it, and we have our emotions connected to it; some of those emotions are still pretty strong, and maybe always will be. This is primarily for the rest of you, still making partisan political hay of one kind or another over us, our war, and the ones who protested it.

Those of us who fought in Vietnam are all old now, most of us past sixty. Before we're all gone, there's something I'd like to say to those of you who think you know all about it, from the history books, the old newsreels, and the movies. Whatever our ethnic background, whatever our social class, whether we volunteered or were drafted, we were mostly young, scared, and trying to survive a year fighting in a strange place halfway around the globe. Most of us managed to find a few moments of laughter and cheer in uncomfortable surroundings, but most of the time, we were uncomfortable, dirty, bug-bitten, and sleep-deprived. Boredom alternated with horror, and moments of sheer terror. Sometimes, it wasn't easy to even tell who the enemy was; the line between combatant and non-combatant was often blurred; some things were cut-and-dried, a lot more weren't. Heroes? You want the plain truth? I don't think ANY of us felt much like heroes; we were too damn busy trying to stay alive, or keep each other alive, to worry about it. I don't recall any of us having too many thoughts about the flag, glory, or God, country, motherhood and apple pie, in the middle of a firefight. We won, on the battlefield; what we won otherwise, is something else we've argued about for forty years. All I'm really sure of is that 58,274 of our brothers and 9 of our sisters died for it, and the rest of us felt damn lucky to have survived it. Did they, and we, do all that, so someone today can run for political office on the medals he received, or someone else can call one politician a traitor, or another a "chickenhawk", depending on whether he did, or din't serve, and where? Sometimes, it makes me feel like a bunch of vultures are circling the carcass of our war, picking at the bones of the dead, and picking the scabs off the wounds of the living ; and I have to ask, is that what they died for, and what we lived for? I ask, because sometimes, it feels like that process stains the little bit of honor that's been lost in all the recriminations and counter-recriminations, and it makes me feel just a little dirty, and a little sick.

So excuse me when I say I wish we could just stop, and think about not doing this anymore, and maybe letting the dead rest in peace, and the wounded heal, if they can. I guess even that's too much to ask, and this won't change things, anymore than all the bickering over who is or isn't a "hero" will. So go ahead, if you have to; but dammit, sometimes, it hurts, just the same.

Kerry should make you feel a little dirty and a little sick and at ain't about a bunch of vultures. He dishonored you and apparently your political affiliation gets in the way of understanding what he did. Quit the crying bullshit and stick to the topic.

I understand EXACTLY what Mr. Kerry did, Whitehall. I didn't agree with his actions then (lying about your brothers-in-arms, no matter how noble the supposed reason is or is not, is still LYING!), and don't agree with his politics now. I'm just sick of arguing over who is or isn't a hero, or who did or didn't deserve a medal, or any of that, when I know that others sacrificed so much, so those of us who did make it home could, and they never got a damn thing for it but a PH and a flag on their coffin for their next-of-kin. I'm just tired; tired of their sacrifice and our blood, sweat and tears being a damn political football, for either side. That's one thing I didn't fight for. That is all.

The topic is John Kerry. If you are sick of it go somewhere else. If you want to defend him go ahead. The conduct of officers during wartime has been a topic of discussion since Arnold betrayed Washington. Lee's actions at Gettysburg is a hot topic for C/W/ buffs. Hollywood made a movie about Patton's quirks and MacArthur was denied the GOP nomination probably because of efforts by Korean War Veterans. Kerry is secretary of state and his conduct during Vietnam is relevant.

 

[Warrior102]

I'll stop when those who died in the place of that privileged trash come back to life. Or better yet, when there's a wall for Chickenhawks who finally paid for their crimes. The men I served with were worth far more than the flag-waving draftdodgers and most of them were only twenty years old.

Speaking of Chickenhawks, how are you and Obama doing?

 

[daveman]

Excellent strategy. When compared to a small child throwing a temper tantrum, throw an even BIGGER tantrum.



I showed you the truth of the alleged Collateral Murder video, and you preferred to believe the edited tape Assange released.

You're not interested in the truth. All you have is dogma and agenda and programming. You're dull-witted and slow. You're incapable of thinking for yourself.

Get to bed early tonight, kid. You have school tomorrow.

How can you say I'm not interested in the truth, when I watched your video (in its entirety) twice?

I can say it because like an idiot, you claim an RPG is a camera bag -- just like Assange programmed you to say.

Moron.

And the Assange video has nothing to do with my comment that your video doesn't prove what you claim it does.

Of course it does. But you're too blinded by your love of terrorists to see it.

BTW, you still haven't commented on the van getting shot up when they were tending to the wounded. Why can't you comment on that, you fuckin' coward?

Oh, eat shit, kid. How about you condemn the terrorists for bringing kids to a firefight?