John Edward's Two Americas

[ScreamingEagle]

John Edward's standard political speech has been to say that there are two Americas, one for the rich and one for the poor. The liberals eat it up. But just how poor are these 35 million people he talks about?

Executive Summary: Understanding Poverty in America by Robert E. Rector and Kirk A. Johnson, Ph.D.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/BG1713es.cfm


If poverty means lacking nutritious food, adequate warm housing, and clothing for a family, relatively few of the 35 million people identified as being "in poverty" by the Census Bureau could be characterized as poor. While material hardship does exist in the United States, it is quite restricted in scope and severity.

The average "poor" person, as defined by the government, has a living standard far higher than the public imagines. The following are facts about persons defined as "poor" by the Census Bureau, taken from various government reports:

 Forty-six percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.
 Seventy-six percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
 Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.
 The typical poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
 Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
 Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
 Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
 Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher.

Overall, the typical American defined as poor by the government has a car, air conditioning, a refrigerator, a stove, a clothes washer and dryer, and a microwave. He has two color televisions, cable or satellite TV reception, a VCR or DVD player, and a stereo. He is able to obtain medical care. His home is in good repair and is not overcrowded. By his own report, his family is not hungry, and he had sufficient funds in the past year to meet his family's essential needs. While this individual's life is not opulent, it is equally far from the popular images of dire poverty conveyed by the press, liberal activists, and politicians.

 

[freeandfun1]

Divide and conquer; that is what the dems are trying to do - divide the country, and then defeat it politically. If they again get in office, they will render this country inept and flaccid!

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
Divide and conquer; that is what the dems are trying to do - divide the country, and then defeat it politically. If they again get in office, they will render this country inept and flaccid!

Bob Dole was also like that before he sponsored Viagra.

 

[NATO AIR]

that's real beautiful, coming from the ultraconservative heritage foundation.

there are two americas, and i'm sorry that people don't realize that. there have always been two americas, especially in the last 50 years. there are still children starving, still families homeless through little fault of their own (just hard luck), still old people eating dog food to get by. if you try to deny this, its sad. i don't agree with class warfare, i don't agree with welfare, i do agree with giving people a hand up, not a hand out. i don't agree with pretending or dilluting the truth of poverty in america though.

get in a car, drive down to any poverty stricken part of the country, and walk around for a while. you probably won't get robbed, but you could have an interesting discussion with someone who doesn't have enough to eat, doesn't own their home and barely gets by.

it may not be as prevelant as some politicians would like you to believe, but its not as non-existent as some other politicians would like you to think. the truth, like most things, lies somewhere in the middle.

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by NATO AIR
that's real beautiful, coming from the ultraconservative heritage foundation.

there are two americas, and i'm sorry that people don't realize that. there have always been two americas, especially in the last 50 years. there are still children starving, still families homeless through little fault of their own (just hard luck), still old people eating dog food to get by. if you try to deny this, its sad. i don't agree with class warfare, i don't agree with welfare, i do agree with giving people a hand up, not a hand out. i don't agree with pretending or dilluting the truth of poverty in america though.

get in a car, drive down to any poverty stricken part of the country, and walk around for a while. you probably won't get robbed, but you could have an interesting discussion with someone who doesn't have enough to eat, doesn't own their home and barely gets by.

it may not be as prevelant as some politicians would like you to believe, but its not as non-existent as some other politicians would like you to think. the truth, like most things, lies somewhere in the middle.

I honestly don't know why any senior citizen or child can manage to starve in this country at all unless those who look out for them intentionally resell their food stamps to buy cigarettes or alcohol. This food stamp program is provided as only one of the bare minimum standards of our safety net in American society and is available to anyone.

I noticed a can of pork and beans, with 1,000+ calories, is cheaper, tastier, and more nutrituos than the same amount of dog food. You can pick this up for less than dollar in any shopping market which is required to accept food stamps, but you don't need to given the amount of stamps offered per person. In fact you can budget for steak and snacks on the side if you're carefull.


If someone pisses away their food stamps they can ask or dig around for leftovers. There is TONS of wasted food easily picked up in public places, and you'd find plent of fresh food in any mall just walking around. You see Bums digging for food in the garbage ONLY because they have sold off their stamps for less than half the value just to get cash for alcohol or cigarettes.

Simply put, NOBODY starves in America if they don't want to. It's impossible.

 

[NATO AIR]

i'll meet you in rural western NC one day and we'll take a drive.

or carol city, miami, fl?

or certain parts of NYC?

the system is bunk. the liberals wanna give handouts that make people dependent and lazy, the ULTRA conseratives want to act like poverty doesn't exist. like i said, the truth is in the middle. i can't believe we have starving people in America, but we do. its disgraceful, but like most social ills and evils, it can only be reduced, probably never fully eradicated.

i don't fully understand how it happens, but its there.

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by NATO AIR
i'll meet you in rural western NC one day and we'll take a drive.

or carol city, miami, fl?

or certain parts of NYC?

the system is bunk. the liberals wanna give handouts that make people dependent and lazy, the ULTRA conseratives want to act like poverty doesn't exist. like i said, the truth is in the middle. i can't believe we have starving people in America, but we do. its disgraceful, but like most social ills and evils, it can only be reduced, probably never fully eradicated.

i don't fully understand how it happens, but its there.

Most of it is drug addiction, there is market for selling food stamps at something like 30 cents on the dollar. I hate to imagine how many mothers will sell these off along with all the other welfare for welfare moms, but it's significant. Children do starve in that situation but social services would normally step in once it's clear enough to see.

 

[Adam's Apple]

By reading the Heritage Foundation article, I discovered that I am classified as poor, which is a real stretch. In my opinion, that description describes the middle class rather than the poor, and very few would take it seriously. If you want to get a close-up look at the poor in America, do volunteer work, especially in the community kitchens and in the food banks. Brings you up close and personal. There are poor people in America, folks, and very few have the advantages available to them described in this article.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Sure, there are some poor people in America and there is a core group that deserves help but the majority is mostly illegal immigrants and one-parent families. The rest are bums.

Until we resolve the illegal immigration problem and until we encourage two-parent families that work, the welfare program will continue to waste our money as well as continue to foster dependency on the welfare system.

The liberals do not want to do either. True conservatives want both of the above and that is why conservatives are truly more caring about the poor than the bleeding-heart, empty-headed liberals who just want to buy the poor vote and not really solve the problem.

I'm sure John Edward knows this. He came from a modest background but his family wasn't poor. Didn't he have TWO parents at home? They didn't qualify as poor because his father WORKED for a living. I believe he was a mill worker.

Even though John's father did not make a whole lot of money, he supported his family, fed and clothed them. He sent his son John off to college to become a fancy trial lawyer. If most of the welfare recipients would do the same, there would be very LITTLE need for welfare programs in America.

However Edwards sees political gain in his Two America spiel just like he saw monetary gain in his untruthful legal suits.

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by NATO AIR
that's real beautiful, coming from the ultraconservative heritage foundation.

there are two americas, and i'm sorry that people don't realize that. there have always been two americas, especially in the last 50 years. there are still children starving, still families homeless through little fault of their own (just hard luck), still old people eating dog food to get by. if you try to deny this, its sad. i don't agree with class warfare, i don't agree with welfare, i do agree with giving people a hand up, not a hand out. i don't agree with pretending or dilluting the truth of poverty in america though.

get in a car, drive down to any poverty stricken part of the country, and walk around for a while. you probably won't get robbed, but you could have an interesting discussion with someone who doesn't have enough to eat, doesn't own their home and barely gets by.

it may not be as prevelant as some politicians would like you to believe, but its not as non-existent as some other politicians would like you to think. the truth, like most things, lies somewhere in the middle.

You miss the point NATO.

I don't know of ANY politician - democrat, republican or Independent that has ever said that there is NO poverty in America. Hell, I came from a background of poverty growing up in rural north central Texas. I know what poverty is. Frankly, I never knew I was poor growing up. I never realized it until after I grew up and looked back. The dems like to tell the poor how poor they are and put them down (Carvel and his trailer trash comments). They then like to tell them how the government is going to either give em a job or give em money to live on.

The GOP just tells em to get a job (a job that is being produced by supporters of the GOP not the government). Hell, it worked for me. I got a job and now I am one of those in the top 1% that the SOBs Kerry and Edwards want to tax to death.

 

[NATO AIR]

what's up with one parent families being something the fault of the one parent?

this generation especially (mine sadly) has been taught its feelings are more important than its responsibilities, so its okay to divorce just because of minor stuff, or its alright to abandon your pregnant girlfriend or just give up your parental responsibilities to your significant other because its just "too hard"

then you got the poor bastards that are sitting in jail for years for USING drugs.

illiegal immigrants...eh... that's true, but we got a long way to go on that one sadly.

 

[Merlin1047]

Edwards presents the "two Americas" concept as if it were a Hindu caste system. He and all ultra lefties and socialists incite class envy in order to pique the interest of their otherwise apathetic constituency. He then finishes his diatribe with the "obvious" conclusion that it takes government (read that as Democrats) to "help" people up and out.

What they fail to see and never admit is the fact that, unlike a caste system, no one is doomed to be mired forever among the have-nots. There is upward mobility for those willing to expend the sweat and effort to avail themselves of it. Barring extreme circumstance or extraordinary bad luck, nearly everyone can improve their lot in life. That's really what makes this country great and that's why we have people from all over the world clamoring to come here.

Another thing that the socialists on the left refuse to admit is that an individual's reliance on government to better his or her life is the only sure way to guarantee a lifelong dependence on government handouts and an endless cycle of poverty.

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by Merlin1047
Edwards presents the "two Americas" concept as if it were a Hindu caste system. He and all ultra lefties and socialists incite class envy in order to pique the interest of their otherwise apathetic constituency. He then finishes his diatribe with the "obvious" conclusion that it takes government (read that as Democrats) to "help" people up and out.

What they fail to see and never admit is the fact that, unlike a caste system, no one is doomed to be mired forever among the have-nots. There is upward mobility for those willing to expend the sweat and effort to avail themselves of it. Barring extreme circumstance or extraordinary bad luck, nearly everyone can improve their lot in life. That's really what makes this country great and that's why we have people from all over the world clamoring to come here.

Another thing that the socialists on the left refuse to admit is that an individual's reliance on government to better his or her life is the only sure way to guarantee a lifelong dependence on government handouts and an endless cycle of poverty.

That's a great way to look at it, couldn't have said it better.

The key is certainly not to take away all government reliance, though... for all intents a pure capitalist economy, similar to the situation in early America, is in no way perfect either.

We all have to consider the rich were never really taxed at all before the 30's.

But in my opinion the biggest problem with Canada and Europe in growing their economy is the suffocation of all income, especially the poor and middle class, by insane sales, corporate, and energy taxes. That makes the biggest consumers of the economy, the poor and middle class, slaves to government services. The rich are taxed by extra means.

On the other hand, the income tax in America leaves the lower earner free of most effective tax. Everyone ends up less needy on government services just to pay government tax. They need an income tax to fix their economic woes to start.


That's vicous

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Originally posted by Merlin1047
Edwards presents the "two Americas" concept as if it were a Hindu caste system. He and all ultra lefties and socialists incite class envy in order to pique the interest of their otherwise apathetic constituency. He then finishes his diatribe with the "obvious" conclusion that it takes government (read that as Democrats) to "help" people up and out.

What they fail to see and never admit is the fact that, unlike a caste system, no one is doomed to be mired forever among the have-nots. There is upward mobility for those willing to expend the sweat and effort to avail themselves of it. Barring extreme circumstance or extraordinary bad luck, nearly everyone can improve their lot in life. That's really what makes this country great and that's why we have people from all over the world clamoring to come here.

Another thing that the socialists on the left refuse to admit is that an individual's reliance on government to better his or her life is the only sure way to guarantee a lifelong dependence on government handouts and an endless cycle of poverty.

Excellent points.

The Democrats must think they are Gods that have the right to manage everybodys money and lives.

John Edwards "Two Americas" spiel falls apart if you look at it closely. He says he is the son of a mill worker, in other words, the son of a regular working citizen (this being the "big plus factor" he brings to the election). But to hear him talk he made his own way in life. He went to college, evidently studied hard, and got a law degree (and then made his millions using junk science in cerebral palsy lawsuits for children which is another story altogether). Maybe he borrowed some tuition money but I'm sure he had to pay that back.

In any case I sure haven't heard him speak of any government programs that actually helped him. Looks to me like he made his way up the ladder the old fashioned American way. So why is he using his life story to promote Big Government? Doesn't fit.

There certainly are Two Americas: the Democrats and the real Americans

 

[NATO AIR]

i think merlin made some great points... that's the problem with both parties, many dems often go overboard with too much help or downtalking what people can do for themselves, and many GOP'ers go overboard with how the gov't isn't needed and people can just magically make it if they put in all the effort.

its a balance of the two, although slightly tilted towards the right of centre.

we don't have that balance right now though