Joe Wilson Proposes Forcing Congress Onto Government Health Insurance Plan

[Care4all]

Dumbass.... Think about it.... Employers will stop providing insurance for their employees when they know the Government will provide it.... So you either use the Government public option or nothing.... I thought this was common sense.... Maybe this is why our nation is so f'd up...because people aren't smart enough to figure things like this out....

Sure we won't be forced to sign up for up but we sure as hell will be forced to pay for it!!!!!! Why is this so hard to understand??????

So what you are afraid of is that the Government would do such a fantastic job in the Insurance business that everyone will love it too much

Whats so bad about people saving money?

Oh, yes, I forgot...........when you do something to help the rich that is called stimulating the economy

When you do something to help working Americans, it is called Socialism

If it's so great why is Congress not jumping on the opportunity to join this??????????????

Won't answer that question will you?????

But WHY should congress be forced to go on it WHEN NO ONE IS BEING FORCED to go on it? Are they? isn;t it just another option on the insurance exchange for people to buy, along with the private options on the insurance exchqange that we have the option to BUY?

 

[saveliberty]

honestly, save liberty....the price of this bill DOES NOT go down in price, without the Public option, not significantly.

I believe what you are talking about, in the cost of this plan, is the use of something they are calling, ''affordability credits'', which will be given to people, of varying amounts dependent on means/need.

I had read that if you make as much as 300% of poverty, which is less that 23 k i believe for an individual, our gvt will give them some money, to help pay for their health insurance plan, through giving them a credit that they can use when purchasing it.

this affordability credit, will be larger for those making less money...as example, someone at poverty level will have a larger affordability credit to use when they purchase their insurance than someone at 300% of the poverty level.

Some on this board have mentioned that those up to 400% of poverty will be eligible for an affordability credit, but i have not had the chance to confirm this....

BUT HERE IS WHAT IS PERTINENT:

These affordability credits will be issued to those people, whether there is a public insurance option plan that they can BUY with their affordability credits, OR NOT.

OR NOT, being the key emphasis.

Killing the Public Option will not stop your taxes paying for at least a portion, of those people making less than 300/400% of the poverty level.

Quick question: Let's say a single woman is making $30,000 a year, just over the poverty line and is barely surviving on what she makes as it is. This public option plan kicks in and she is forced to pick up the public plan or be fined for refusing to do so. The availability credit pays say 75% of her coverage and to make things easy her monthly costs without the credit would be $400 so the credit is $300/month but she still needs to come up with the additional $100/month. But she can't! She simply cannot afford it.

What happens to her?

Note: the numbers used above are not accurate and only used for the example. Some people at some income level are going to fall into this category. There is no way around it. It is going to happen... in fact, it might even be you.

What about the people who don't qualify for any credit at all, but their employer drops coverage completely, leaving them at the mercy of the public option, but now that their employer will not or cannot cover health insurance they are FORCED to join the public plan even though they cannot afford it. What happens to them? This might even be you!

Immie

ok, since we are speculating here....let me ask you a few things that are pertinent....before I answer you!

Are you under the impression or is it the case in your example that these people with affordability credits will ONLY be able to buy the Public option insurance plan after they get their affordability credits?

And are you under the impression that if someone loses their job they can only buy the public option off of the Insurance exchange and not any of the other private insurance plans available on their insurance exchange?

And IF this is true, can you direct me to the part of the bill that states such or even an article, so I can follow it up?

care

Common sense is in short supply on this topic, but here goes. The government option is suppose to expand the number of people covered. If private insurance was cheaper, no one would want the government one unless they didn't qualify for private insurance. To solve that problem, government could just pass a universal qualification provision, fine those not purchasing it and stay out of the insurance business.

Government coverage also has to be less expensive than private coverage. Most people, working or not, are going to use the least expensive plan that provides the coverage they need. You need to make your money go as far as possible.

Does it follow that if you can't pay for insurance, fining you will help you get coverage? These people remain uninsured.

I meant what I said earlier. Obama is taxing the rich and small business owners to help pay for this plan. Any tax on a business is ultimately passed on to the consumer and that is everyone. You tax the middle class for this plan Mr. Obama.

 

[Care4all]

Quick question: Let's say a single woman is making $30,000 a year, just over the poverty line and is barely surviving on what she makes as it is. This public option plan kicks in and she is forced to pick up the public plan or be fined for refusing to do so. The availability credit pays say 75% of her coverage and to make things easy her monthly costs without the credit would be $400 so the credit is $300/month but she still needs to come up with the additional $100/month. But she can't! She simply cannot afford it.

What happens to her?

Note: the numbers used above are not accurate and only used for the example. Some people at some income level are going to fall into this category. There is no way around it. It is going to happen... in fact, it might even be you.

What about the people who don't qualify for any credit at all, but their employer drops coverage completely, leaving them at the mercy of the public option, but now that their employer will not or cannot cover health insurance they are FORCED to join the public plan even though they cannot afford it. What happens to them? This might even be you!

Immie

ok, since we are speculating here....let me ask you a few things that are pertinent....before I answer you!

Are you under the impression or is it the case in your example that these people with affordability credits will ONLY be able to buy the Public option insurance plan after they get their affordability credits?

And are you under the impression that if someone loses their job they can only buy the public option off of the Insurance exchange and not any of the other private insurance plans available on their insurance exchange?

And IF this is true, can you direct me to the part of the bill that states such or even an article, so I can follow it up?

care

Common sense is in short supply on this topic, but here goes. The government option is suppose to expand the number of people covered. If private insurance was cheaper, no one would want the government one unless they didn't qualify for private insurance. To solve that problem, government could just pass a universal qualification provision, fine those not purchasing it and stay out of the insurance business.

Government coverage also has to be less expensive than private coverage. Most people, working or not, are going to use the least expensive plan that provides the coverage they need. You need to make your money go as far as possible.

Does it follow that if you can't pay for insurance, fining you will help you get coverage? These people remain uninsured.

I meant what I said earlier. Obama is taxing the rich and small business owners to help pay for this plan. Any tax on a business is ultimately passed on to the consumer and that is everyone. You tax the middle class for this plan Mr. Obama.

but i thought this legislation did have law changes that prevented private insurers from denying insurance...ie. they must take people with preexisting conditions that they previously were denying?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Republican Rep. Joe Wilson proposed an amendment Wednesday that would force all members of Congress to receive health insurance coverage through the government-run plan proposed in the House's reform bill.

Though Republicans oppose the so-called "public option," the South Carolina gadfly -- who gained notoriety for shouting "you lie" at President Obama during his address to Congress two months ago -- is proposing the requirement to draw attention to what he sees as the plan's flaws.

"They know the government-run option will not be in the interest of the American people, either individually or for the American citizens at large," Wilson said Wednesday, arguing that's the reason Congress does not require its members to sign up.






Joe Wilson Proposes Forcing Congress Onto Government Health Insurance Plan - FOXNews.com








I don't have a problmen with that. If it's such a damn good deal the demoncwats should be the first in line to get it. True?

I totally agree. This is the ONLY way to guarantee congress doesnt screw it up completely.

I say they have to put their entire family on the plan too.


EDIT: Care4All there will be people forced onto it if they make it compulsatory to have health insurance by implimenting a fine on anyone who doesn't.

 

[Care4all]

well, although i understand the reasoning of making insurance mandatory because the more people on insurance the less insurance will cost for all of us, but I do NOT agree with making it mandatory...I have been thinking long and hard on this and making it mandatory is just wrong and can hurt equally as much as help.... it just hands a whole bunch of customers by FORCE to the private insurance company that they do not have to compete for...

 

[saveliberty]

ok, since we are speculating here....let me ask you a few things that are pertinent....before I answer you!

Are you under the impression or is it the case in your example that these people with affordability credits will ONLY be able to buy the Public option insurance plan after they get their affordability credits?

And are you under the impression that if someone loses their job they can only buy the public option off of the Insurance exchange and not any of the other private insurance plans available on their insurance exchange?

And IF this is true, can you direct me to the part of the bill that states such or even an article, so I can follow it up?

care

Common sense is in short supply on this topic, but here goes. The government option is suppose to expand the number of people covered. If private insurance was cheaper, no one would want the government one unless they didn't qualify for private insurance. To solve that problem, government could just pass a universal qualification provision, fine those not purchasing it and stay out of the insurance business.

Government coverage also has to be less expensive than private coverage. Most people, working or not, are going to use the least expensive plan that provides the coverage they need. You need to make your money go as far as possible.

Does it follow that if you can't pay for insurance, fining you will help you get coverage? These people remain uninsured.

I meant what I said earlier. Obama is taxing the rich and small business owners to help pay for this plan. Any tax on a business is ultimately passed on to the consumer and that is everyone. You tax the middle class for this plan Mr. Obama.

but i thought this legislation did have law changes that prevented private insurers from denying insurance...ie. they must take people with preexisting conditions that they previously were denying?

Well, we would have to actually be able to read the 1900 page bill to know for sure. I do know that the government must be allowing pre-existing conditions of some sort, because they have a six month waiting period to get PUBLIC coverage for those who are rejected from private coverage for pre-existing conditions.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

well, although i understand the reasoning of making insurance mandatory because the more people on insurance the less insurance will cost for all of us, but I do NOT agree with making it mandatory...I have been thinking long and hard on this and making it mandatory is just wrong and can hurt equally as much as help.... it just hands a whole bunch of customers by FORCE to the private insurance company that they do not have to compete for...

See you and I are fairly opposite on this issue however we seem to agree on several things:

1) Making it mandatory is wrong
2) There needs to be some kind of legislation protecting people from being denied coverage if they get sick or have a pre-existing condition.
3) Any new program should be fully funded and defecit neutral (really neutral and not politic-speak neutral).

Now you think someone in congress, from each side, can reach over and say..."Hey look lets do one thing about health insurance both sides agree on"? Of corse if they did that then they would actually be representing the people instead of the special interest corporations donating to BOTH parties.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

For a few years, anyways.

You can make assumptions all day long. However, since you have absolutely NO concrete data to support these assumptions, why would Wilson, a Senator, make such a stupid move?

Dumbass.... Think about it.... Employers will stop providing insurance for their employees when they know the Government will provide it.... So you either use the Government public option or nothing.... I thought this was common sense.... Maybe this is why our nation is so f'd up...because people aren't smart enough to figure things like this out....

Sure we won't be forced to sign up for up but we sure as hell will be forced to pay for it!!!!!! Why is this so hard to understand??????

The move is nothing more than a single, massive step towards the dream of all lefties... single payer insurance. The libs would never be satisfied with having some people on inferior govt insurance while others get private insurance- because the left values equality over freedom.

 

[KMAN]

So what you are afraid of is that the Government would do such a fantastic job in the Insurance business that everyone will love it too much

Whats so bad about people saving money?

Oh, yes, I forgot...........when you do something to help the rich that is called stimulating the economy

When you do something to help working Americans, it is called Socialism

If it's so great why is Congress not jumping on the opportunity to join this??????????????

Won't answer that question will you?????

But WHY should congress be forced to go on it WHEN NO ONE IS BEING FORCED to go on it? Are they? isn;t it just another option on the insurance exchange for people to buy, along with the private options on the insurance exchqange that we have the option to BUY?

As long as my rates don't increase and I do not have to pay for other people's insurance I am with you.... However, who is going to pay for the welfare recipients who are given health care? And illegal immigrants, which you know Democrats are going to push for that if it's not in the bill already... And why will my employer offer insurance when they know that I can go to the Government to get it? This will force me to either take the public option, or spend more money out of my pocket to get my own insurance outside of a group policy.

 

[KMAN]

Another thing..... Where in the constitution does it say the Federal Government is responsible for the health of all individuals?????

Let individual states provide the insurance if they want to.... Oh wait several states have already tried this and it has failed miserably.....

 

[Care4all]

If it's so great why is Congress not jumping on the opportunity to join this??????????????

Won't answer that question will you?????

But WHY should congress be forced to go on it WHEN NO ONE IS BEING FORCED to go on it? Are they? isn;t it just another option on the insurance exchange for people to buy, along with the private options on the insurance exchqange that we have the option to BUY?

As long as my rates don't increase and I do not have to pay for other people's insurance I am with you.... However, who is going to pay for the welfare recipients who are given health care?

welfare recipients are on medicaid now and us tax payers pay for it. I believe they will be given affordability credits for an insurance plan with the private sector of their own choosing, off their state's insurance exchange. If there is a public insurance option on the exchange as well, they can choose between any private insurance plan or this public option plan....it IS THEIR CHOICE is my understanding of the ''affordability credits'' in this health care reform bill.

And illegal immigrants, which you know Democrats are going to push for that if it's not in the bill already...

no, i believe the democratic stance is to NOT give affordability credits to anyone illegal, not have tax payers pay for their insurance.

but the democratic stance on illegals that want to buy their own health insurance, should be allowed to do so, because it is more beneficial for us taxpayers if they do and it is their own money...

And why will my employer offer insurance when they know that I can go to the Government to get it?

at this very moment, you can go out and get health care coverage from anyone you want, and this does not stop your employer from offering it as a benefit so i honestly don't see why it would be any different with one more option out there for you to buy....the policy will be about the same price as a private ins policy?

This will force me to either take the public option, or spend more money out of my pocket to get my own insurance outside of a group policy.

the public option is just another insurance option, it will be run like an insurance company, where they charge their customers whatever the plan costs to cover everyone in the plan, plus cover overhead and salaries and all expenses of the plan...in the premiums of the customers choosing to buy it, is my understanding.

on average it might be 5% less than the price of other insurance policies on the same level, or perhaps as some have estimated, with hardly any savings at all, the way it is writen....

And if you were laid off now, you can still get insurance coverage or if your company cut their insurance plan because it was too costly for them, you can get coverage, but it is cost prohibitive....

There are things that could be done with this public option that could bring the prices of it down for thier customers, but the congress has not put any of these measures in to these bills to do such, at least not yet, imo.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

But WHY should congress be forced to go on it WHEN NO ONE IS BEING FORCED to go on it? Are they? isn;t it just another option on the insurance exchange for people to buy, along with the private options on the insurance exchqange that we have the option to BUY?

As long as my rates don't increase and I do not have to pay for other people's insurance I am with you.... However, who is going to pay for the welfare recipients who are given health care?

welfare recipients are on medicaid now and us tax payers pay for it. I believe they will be given affordability credits for an insurance plan with the private sector of their own choosing, off their state's insurance exchange. If there is a public insurance option on the exchange as well, they can choose between any private insurance plan or this public option plan....it IS THEIR CHOICE is my understanding of the ''affordability credits'' in this health care reform bill.

And illegal immigrants, which you know Democrats are going to push for that if it's not in the bill already...

no, i believe the democratic stance is to NOT give affordability credits to anyone illegal, not have tax payers pay for their insurance.

but the democratic stance on illegals that want to buy their own health insurance, should be allowed to do so, because it is more beneficial for us taxpayers if they do and it is their own money...

And why will my employer offer insurance when they know that I can go to the Government to get it?

at this very moment, you can go out and get health care coverage from anyone you want, and this does not stop your employer from offering it as a benefit so i honestly don't see why it would be any different with one more option out there for you to buy....the policy will be about the same price as a private ins policy?

This will force me to either take the public option, or spend more money out of my pocket to get my own insurance outside of a group policy.

the public option is just another insurance option, it will be run like an insurance company, where they charge their customers whatever the plan costs to cover everyone in the plan, plus cover overhead and salaries and all expenses of the plan...in the premiums of the customers choosing to buy it, is my understanding.



on average it might be 5% less than the price of other insurance policies on the same level, or perhaps as some have estimated, with hardly any savings at all, the way it is writen....

And if you were laid off now, you can still get insurance coverage or if your company cut their insurance plan because it was too costly for them, you can get coverage, but it is cost prohibitive....

There are things that could be done with this public option that could bring the prices of it down for thier customers, but the congress has not put any of these measures in to these bills to do such, at least not yet, imo.

Because it will be administered by the least efficient business model in the world, the costs of the public option to taxpayers will explode. Which is ok by the business model, because it has a (supposedly) unlimited amount of capital to cover its losses
The public option will be cheap for the insured, unbelievably expensive for those that really foot the bill. Oh, and it is an absolute falsehood to say that it will result in competition, since it will not be constrained with a bottom line.

 

[veritas]

Seems Joe Wilson is only posturing......some people have actually done something:

Steve Kagen, a Wisconsin Congressman who is also an M.D., is going without health insurance to prove a political point. Sure it’s something of a gimmick, but it’s a pretty compelling one — the guy is 58 years old, and he has no coverage.

Kagen, a Democrat and an allergist, is the only Congressman to refuse insurance, Scientific American reports this week.

He announced his insurance status to the world last year on the Huffington Post, and this year he introduced a bill that would bar insurers from denying coverage or raising rates because of pre-existing conditions. He’d also require companies to disclose all of their rates.

The bill doesn’t call for new funding to help people afford those plans. Kagen argues (as does the health insurance industry) that getting everybody covered will lower rates, because the insured are basically subsidizing the cost of care for the uninsured by paying higher prices for care.

Kagen has found only Democratic co-sponsors for his bill, and it’s not likely to become law anytime soon. So he’ll remain without insurance. If he were to get sick, he tells SciAm, “I’d be just like the 47 [million] to 50 million American citizens who don’t have coverage, and I’d have to negotiate with hospitals and doctors for the best-priced coverage.”

M.D. Congressman Goes Without Health Insurance - Health Blog - WSJ

There's another one out there.......

Joe's a poser.