Jobs

[topspin]

As do I. I'll leave it all to them. I grew up poor though at the time I had no idea. I've tried to teach my boys about investing since they got out of jr high. Sadly the days of working hard and getting ahead on that alone are all but gone.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I gave you a viable, proven solution:

War.

And I didn't call anyone a socialist or communist.

What's your idea....waiting on Obama to unleash the unicorns and rainbows?

War, you mean the foreign policy wherein the power elite send other peoples kids into harms way? You consider that viable?
I suggested a new CETA or a new Job training Parnership Act. A Public Law providing paid on the job training for the unemployed.
And it's not up to Obama to release the dogs of war or unicorns, it's up to the Congress to work towards ending the current economic nightmare.
The jobs provided by such a program would be private/public partnership programs. For example, you own a small business producing insulated windows. The law would provide tax credits and funds to hire staff to produce/install more windows. You would train the new staff and benefit from greater sales. The government, by providing tax credits to businesses and individuals to make their buildings/homes more energy efficient would help create the market.

I've yet to see any 'conservative' suggest anything so concrete - all I read are idiotgrams, such as your comment about unicorns and rainbows. Is that the best you have? Or, are you smarter than that?

PS My son just showed up and were off to the gym, I'll check and see if you have something better, later.

You don't like my solution, so it isn't "concrete"?

Can you point to a single instance in the entire history of mankind where a country waged all out war against another country, won the war, and didn't prosper?

If war is not a viable option for the US, then there is no such thing as "a viable option" for anyone, anywhere, at any time. War is what we are. War is what we do. We are the Kings of war. We've never lost. War is why we are who we are. It is why the world loves us, and why the world hates us. Without wars, we are nobody, and we have nothing.

War will solve every problem we have, including the economy. But as we've pointed out, it has to be a BIG war. Bigger than the ones we're fighting now. Bigger than Vietnam. Not WWIII or anything, but a large offensive against a large target.

I suggest Mexico. They have some valuable resources, what loyalty they had is fading, it is a war we could win easily, or drag out as long as needed.

Economy booms, immigration all but disappears as a political issue, unemployment shrinks, "global economy" has one less rogue government to deal with, etc, etc, etc.....

I've given you a solution. The fact that you don't like doesn't mean it won't work. History has proven time and time again that war is the greatest thing that can happen to any economy, and any country, as long as that country wins the war.

War is the answer. It is proven. It has never failed. It works every time.

Your solutions are like rolling the dice in Vegas. They may work, they may not.

War never fails.

Why waste time experimenting when you have a sure-fire solution in your hands?

I'm assuming your post is sarcasm, and a way to avoid actually debating an issue of substance. War is never the answer, war is a necessary response to a direct attack, at least it was in our nations history until George W. Bush invaded and occupied Iraq.
Enjoy you sales of guns and maybe you will avoid the tragic losses Sarah Winchester experienced. I'm sure the ghosts of all those killed by her father-in-law's guns didn't cause the deaths of her daugher or her husband. But sometimes I wonder, is there such a thing as karma?

 

[Mini 14]

As do I. I'll leave it all to them. I grew up poor though at the time I had no idea. I've tried to teach my boys about investing since they got out of jr high. Sadly the days of working hard and getting ahead on that alone are all but gone.

Well, I'm not sure I'd say that, but I would agree it is much harder to do in their world than it was in our's.

While the majority of my "lets go to war!" argument was tongue-in-cheek, there is some truth to it. While I don't agree with war unless there is a damn valid reason for it, I do acknowledge the economic benefits that come from times of war. A great war will happen again, likely soon (we're overdue, actually), but I'm talking about a full-scale, "all-of-our-attention and resources" war. Not one we can win with our eyes closed, or fight with an arm tied behind our backs.

People get killed in wars, and many people can't stomach that. The reality is, if we don't send our children off to die for our freedom, they will one day die with none. My Father did it, His Father did it, and before I'm gone, I may have to do it as well. I don't look forward to it, but I won't run and hide from it either. If my Country needs my children's' lives, then we are willing to pay the price, because many before us have done it for us, and many are doing it today. We know there is something greater after this life, so dying has never scared me or my children.

That's not to say that every war is righteous and noble, but there are those that change the world for the good, change countries, societies, and people.

I just hope the next war we have is one of those. And, (tongue-in-cheek), we've dug ourselves a damn fine hole. One of those holes that a war would fix. I believe it is only a matter of time before some arrogant, greedy politician invents us another enemy.

 

[topspin]

I think it'll be easier for our kids as tech will increase the rate of change.

 

[Mini 14]

I'm assuming your post is sarcasm, and a way to avoid actually debating an issue of substance. War is never the answer, war is a necessary response to a direct attack, at least it was in our nations history until George W. Bush invaded and occupied Iraq.
Enjoy you sales of guns and maybe you will avoid the tragic losses Sarah Winchester experienced. I'm sure the ghosts of all those killed by her father-in-law's guns didn't cause the deaths of her daugher or her husband. But sometimes I wonder, is there such a thing as karma?

Wow....

Debating a poster who calls the spirit of one of the most batshit crazy women to ever walk the earth...?

War works.

Your ideas *might*

You've brought the proverbial knife to the proverbial gunfight in this one.

Ironic, huh?

 

[Wry Catcher]

I'm assuming your post is sarcasm, and a way to avoid actually debating an issue of substance. War is never the answer, war is a necessary response to a direct attack, at least it was in our nations history until George W. Bush invaded and occupied Iraq.
Enjoy you sales of guns and maybe you will avoid the tragic losses Sarah Winchester experienced. I'm sure the ghosts of all those killed by her father-in-law's guns didn't cause the deaths of her daugher or her husband. But sometimes I wonder, is there such a thing as karma?

Wow....

Debating a poster who calls the spirit of one of the most batshit crazy women to ever walk the earth...?

War works.

Your ideas *might*

You've brought the proverbial knife to the proverbial gunfight in this one.

Ironic, huh?

Ironic? The sins of the father...
I suspect you never served. I've been to the Vietnam War Memorial on the Mall in D.C. I've read the names of guys I went to school with, played ball with and against, and served with - war is not the answer.
Of course for some there is profit to be made by war, but for most there is only grief. I will always remember the day they came to the home of my next door neighbor - I was on leave at the time. The world stopped for his parents that day; I suspect it did for many for the families of the other 58,000 on the day they came to their homes.
Maybe you're not being sarcastic, maybe you're simply another asshole chicken hawk.

 

[Mini 14]

I'm assuming your post is sarcasm, and a way to avoid actually debating an issue of substance. War is never the answer, war is a necessary response to a direct attack, at least it was in our nations history until George W. Bush invaded and occupied Iraq.
Enjoy you sales of guns and maybe you will avoid the tragic losses Sarah Winchester experienced. I'm sure the ghosts of all those killed by her father-in-law's guns didn't cause the deaths of her daugher or her husband. But sometimes I wonder, is there such a thing as karma?

Wow....

Debating a poster who calls the spirit of one of the most batshit crazy women to ever walk the earth...?

War works.

Your ideas *might*

You've brought the proverbial knife to the proverbial gunfight in this one.

Ironic, huh?

Ironic? The sins of the father...
I suspect you never served. I've been to the Vietnam War Memorial on the Mall in D.C. I've read the names of guys I went to school with, played ball with and against, and served with - war is not the answer.
Of course for some there is profit to be made by war, but for most there is only grief. I will always remember the day they came to the home of my next door neighbor - I was on leave at the time. The world stopped for his parents that day; I suspect it did for many for the families of the other 58,000 on the day they came to their homes.
Maybe you're not being sarcastic, maybe you're simply another asshole chicken hawk.

Maybe I'm the King of England?!?

Tell the Jews that war is not the answer. There is a memorial for them too. My grandfathers both fought there, but they didn't get their names on a wall, the cowards!

I've been to that Memorial in DC as well. There is a Sergeant who died which allowed my father (you know, the sinner?) to live. Both he and my father were brave men, and the reason he died instead of my father was simply that he chose to stand on my father's left, instead of his right as they walked out of a mess tent in Vietnam. I look at the gayston fin from the mortar that took his life every day, as it has sat on every desk I have used since my father passed and I took it from his desk. Had he stood on Dad's right, when I look at the mortar, I would remember Dad instead of the man who took the brunt of the shrapnel. A brave hero, and a man who did not die in vain.

No, I did not see combat (Dad and others who did always said they were glad for that), and spent the majority of my time translating French for asshole dignitaries, demanding secretaries, and arrogant Officers. So my service was not "heroic" or dangerous. I got paid to do a tedious job, drink some bad beer, and bang a lot of chicks with small breasts and sexy accents. I've met a lot of people who, like you, think that unless you killed or were killed, your service is less significant. I didn't get to assign myself. Sue me.

I understand war. It is necessary, and until all the humans are gone from this earth, it will exist.

And it will forever define us.

(I am proud of myself for getting through all of that without once telling you to go fuck yourself, which was my initial reaction).

 

[Wry Catcher]

Wow....

Debating a poster who calls the spirit of one of the most batshit crazy women to ever walk the earth...?

War works.

Your ideas *might*

You've brought the proverbial knife to the proverbial gunfight in this one.

Ironic, huh?

Ironic? The sins of the father...
I suspect you never served. I've been to the Vietnam War Memorial on the Mall in D.C. I've read the names of guys I went to school with, played ball with and against, and served with - war is not the answer.
Of course for some there is profit to be made by war, but for most there is only grief. I will always remember the day they came to the home of my next door neighbor - I was on leave at the time. The world stopped for his parents that day; I suspect it did for many for the families of the other 58,000 on the day they came to their homes.
Maybe you're not being sarcastic, maybe you're simply another asshole chicken hawk.

Maybe I'm the King of England?!?

Tell the Jews that war is not the answer. There is a memorial for them too. My grandfathers both fought there, but they didn't get their names on a wall, the cowards!

I've been to that Memorial in DC as well. There is a Sergeant who died which allowed my father (you know, the sinner?) to live. Both he and my father were brave men, and the reason he died instead of my father was simply that he chose to stand on my father's left, instead of his right as they walked out of a mess tent in Vietnam. I look at the gayston fin from the mortar that took his life every day, as it has sat on every desk I have used since my father passed and I took it from his desk. Had he stood on Dad's right, when I look at the mortar, I would remember Dad instead of the man who took the brunt of the shrapnel. A brave hero, and a man who did not die in vain.

No, I did not see combat (Dad and others who did always said they were glad for that), and spent the majority of my time translating French for asshole dignitaries, demanding secretaries, and arrogant Officers. So my service was not "heroic" or dangerous. I got paid to do a tedious job, drink some bad beer, and bang a lot of chicks with small breasts and sexy accents. I've met a lot of people who, like you, think that unless you killed or were killed, your service is less significant. I didn't get to assign myself. Sue me.

I understand war. It is necessary, and until all the humans are gone from this earth, it will exist.

And it will forever define us.

(I am proud of myself for getting through all of that without once telling you to go fuck yourself, which was my initial reaction).

Reading comp problem? The sins of the father was refering to the son, married to Sarah Winchester. The son died , as did their child. And, no, I don't believe for a minute some spirt caused the deaths of the son and the child - but that and the fact that the rifles killed so many is the likely cause of Sarah "going bat shit". And, a point of clarification, I spent most of my time on a DD in the Western Pacific, not In Country, but do to a non-combat but service related injury I spent a few weeks in the navy hospital where I saw the consequences of combat.
I glad you're proud of yourself, but I believe to my core anyone who celebrates war lacks humanity. Your father and I have something in common, I have sons and never wanted them to experience the things I saw.

 

[2Parties]

The government can not stimulate or create real economic growth based on what it is. It is impossible. Real growth and progress happens in spite of government not because of it.

 

[Old Rocks]

Damn. Under Eisenhower, we created the Interstate System. It was done by men working for private contractors, not those working for the government.

When I worked for the Forest Service in the late 60s, we built a system of roads in Eastern Oregon. As a government employee, I did nothing to build the roads. What I did was to drill where there were to be deep road cuts, so that the Forest Service, and the contractors building the roads, would know where there were problems. We also did siesmic survey to determine subsurface conditions. Again, to aid in estimating costs and problems.

Were we to embark on building a distributed grid, government employees would not build it. The employees of the contractors that bid on the jobs would build it. Government employees would check the quality of the work, and look for problems ahead of the construction, but would not be the constructors.

Where government money would do the most good would be training a supply of technicians in the new energy sources, people that should come from those now unemployed. A win-win for all. The unemployed would soon become employed at good wages, industry would have new and less costly energy sources.

 

[Old Rocks]

The government can not stimulate or create real economic growth based on what it is. It is impossible. Real growth and progress happens in spite of government not because of it.

Do you really practice at being stupid?

 

[antagon]

The government can not stimulate or create real economic growth based on what it is. It is impossible. Real growth and progress happens in spite of government not because of it.

this is silliness. one would have to have no grasp of the nature of economies or economic history to believe rubbish like this.

 

[eagleseven]

People need jobs. If the private sector can't or won't produce enough jobs the federal government must.

Here's a shovel...start digging a hole to China. We'll pay you in federal bonds.

but doing nothing and dancing the Henny Penny Polka ("Oh my, the sky is falling") is not leadership. Nor is it leadership to fall back on ideology, point fingers and blame the other guy.

Nor is it leadership to shoot yourself in the foot "because it is better than doing nothing!"

If your house is burning down, it behooves you to avoid jumping into the fire.

What America lacks today is imagination, I supported Obama in 2008 because he expressed a future bright with possibilities. Sadly, the power elite worried that the entitlements they have benefited from since the 'Reagan Revolution' were at risk - change scared the shit out of them.

Since when have civil servants been known for their imagination and creativity?

So every effort to move America forward has been met with "No"; and now polls show the propaganda seems to have worked and our nation may turn to the Republican Party - the party which promises much but can't seem to deliver but to the few and the connected.

Not everyone is willing to jump into the fire, no.

P.S. Had your neo-Keynesian "stimulus" worked, you would not be fearing the Republicans in this upcoming election.

 

[antagon]

no firefighters, then, eagleseven?

 

[eagleseven]

Where government money would do the most good would be training a supply of technicians in the new energy sources, people that should come from those now unemployed. A win-win for all. The unemployed would soon become employed at good wages, industry would have new and less costly energy sources.

If you haven't noticed, 90% of "green technology" is Made in China.

How will this new "green industry" survive competition with Asia, if our legendary automobile corporations cannot keep up?

no firefighters, then, eagleseven?

Show me an administration that actually understands how a capitalist economy functions, and I'll listen. As it is, we have a community organizer at the helm, but our economy is more complex than your local soup kitchen.

 

[editec]

This administration pissed away the first stimulus by giving most of the money to the people who needed it least.

Democrats are looking out of the little guys?

Please, give me a fucking break.

 

[antagon]

Where government money would do the most good would be training a supply of technicians in the new energy sources, people that should come from those now unemployed. A win-win for all. The unemployed would soon become employed at good wages, industry would have new and less costly energy sources.

If you haven't noticed, 90% of "green technology" is Made in China.

How will this new "green industry" survive competition with Asia, if our legendary automobile corporations cannot keep up?

no firefighters, then, eagleseven?

Show me an administration that actually understands how a capitalist economy functions, and I'll listen. As it is, we have a community organizer at the helm, but our economy is more complex than your local soup kitchen.

90% of green technology isn't made in china.

if you haven't been paying attention, the united states has historically supported capitalism more effectively than any other nation. we've had administrations this entire time.

what i question is that your burning house analogy puts the government and its constituents in the same lot, when the obligation of government is to be the firefighter when shit goes up in flames.

 

[sparky]

Wouldn't less free trade, which both parties bend over for, make more sense than loans from China to extend unemployment ?

Pure conjecture, of course, that we should actually PRODUCE something here again

~S~

 

[topspin]

The gov most certainly can and did stimulate the economy short term. My issue is a bottom up, put 10,000 in each tax payers pocket would have been much better. The government picking winners and losers based on far left ideology, Child Please.

 

[eagleseven]

90% of green technology isn't made in china.

Yes it is.

World's Top Polluter Emerges as Green-Technology Leader - WSJ.com

if you haven't been paying attention, the united states has historically supported capitalism more effectively than any other nation. we've had administrations this entire time.

If you've invested in the stock market, you would understand that past performance is not a guarantee of future returns.

Rome did not fall in a day.

what i question is that your burning house analogy puts the government and its constituents in the same lot, when the obligation of government is to be the firefighter when shit goes up in flames.

The US Government is plummeting into Greek-levels of debt, as highlighted in the recent G-20 Summit.

To use your analogy, the fire department is burning down, ignored by the firefighters.