Jobs Report "Frightening"

[Vast LWC]

And another chart showing just how frightening the economic outlook is getting, and just how much of a waste the porkulus bill was for Americans...

http://michaelscomments.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/stimulus-vs-unemployment-december-dots.gif

It is clear that government analysts were overly optimistic in their predictions, but your chart certainly does not in any way prove that things would not have been dramatically WORSE if nothing had been done.

Since all other economic indicators other than Unemployment have improved dramatically, and unemployment is always the last thing to improve in a recovery, it would seem that things are in fact bound to improve.

Again, I would direct people to the first 2 1/2 years of the Reagan administration, where simliar data was produced, and the unemployment rate went up to 10.8%.

 

[Vast LWC]

And the more we increase taxes, layers of regulations, etc the more jobs will leave this country.

We have been cutting our own economic throats for decades.

Sooner rather than later we will reach the tipping point - if we have not done so already...

No amount of tax cutting can possibly equal the cost savings of people working for cents on the dollar in foreign countries.

The only thing you're doing by cutting taxes further is lowering revenues, and thus increasing the deficit.

The only way to stop jobs from going overseas is to introduce protectionist trade policies.

Now, I'm good with having those policies, especially where China is concerned, as they are currently conducting a one-sided trade war against us through their currency policies.

Are you good with new protectionist trade policies?

 

[Meister]

And another chart showing just how frightening the economic outlook is getting, and just how much of a waste the porkulus bill was for Americans...

http://michaelscomments.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/stimulus-vs-unemployment-december-dots.gif

It is clear that government analysts were overly optimistic in their predictions, but your chart certainly does not in any way prove that things would not have been dramatically WORSE if nothing had been done.

Since all other economic indicators other than Unemployment have improved dramatically, and unemployment is always the last thing to improve in a recovery, it would seem that things are in fact bound to improve.

Again, I would direct people to the first 2 1/2 years of the Reagan administration, where simliar data was produced, and the unemployment rate went up to 10.8%.

Job creation has improved dramatically?
It is different that unemployment

 

[Vast LWC]

Job creation has improved dramatically?
It is different that unemployment

GDP, manufacturing, housing, the stock market, etc, etc.; all these things have improved dramatically.

Job creation has in fact improved, and unemployment has essentially stopped RISING, which is a big improvement in itself.

Most of the analysts were predicting that the unemployment rate would start to actually improve by the end of the first quarter of next year.

All of them also agreed, when it happened, that the .2% drop in unemployment in November was in fact in all probability an aberration. Nothing has changed since these analyses were made.

But the 24-hour news cycle loves a good story, and the public has a very short memory and attention span.

 

[Zander]

There is no job creation. Why would there be? Employers will not hire people in the face of uncertainty. How can I be certain what I will pay for energy? We have rising oil prices, a falling dollar, a 12 trillion debt, and the prospect of economic disaster with proposed cap and trade legislation. What will it cost me to comply with new government regulations? How high will taxes will rise with a fiscally reckless POTUS and a rubber stamp Congress? How much each new employee will cost after Pelosi and Reid reach in my pocket?

With the damage these business hating liberals in Congress can wreak, I will wait as long as possible to add new employees and every business owner I know feels the same way.

 

[Vast LWC]

There is no job creation. Why would there be? Employers will not hire people in the face of uncertainty. How can I be certain what I will pay for energy? We have rising oil prices, a falling dollar, a 12 trillion debt, and the prospect of economic disaster with proposed cap and trade legislation. What will it cost me to comply with new government regulations? How high will taxes will rise with a fiscally reckless POTUS and a rubber stamp Congress? How much each new employee will cost after Pelosi and Reid reach in my pocket?

With the damage these business hating liberals in Congress can wreak, I will wait as long as possible to add new employees and every business owner I know feels the same way.

There's plenty of job creation, there's just job losses in other places that are causing said job creation to not have a positive effect.

As another poster just mentioned, there's a difference between unemployment and job creation.

 

[Zander]

There is no job creation. Why would there be? Employers will not hire people in the face of uncertainty. How can I be certain what I will pay for energy? We have rising oil prices, a falling dollar, a 12 trillion debt, and the prospect of economic disaster with proposed cap and trade legislation. What will it cost me to comply with new government regulations? How high will taxes will rise with a fiscally reckless POTUS and a rubber stamp Congress? How much each new employee will cost after Pelosi and Reid reach in my pocket?

With the damage these business hating liberals in Congress can wreak, I will wait as long as possible to add new employees and every business owner I know feels the same way.

There's plenty of job creation, there's just job losses in other places that are causing said job creation to not have a positive effect.

As another poster just mentioned, there's a difference between unemployment and job creation.

Just as purchasing goods and services on a credit card does not increase your net worth, new government jobs are not "job creation".

 

[Vast LWC]

Just as purchasing goods and services on a credit card does not increase your net worth, new government jobs are not "job creation".

Are people not making a salary? Are they not performing a service to society in return for monetary compensation?

Seems like "job creation" to me. Besides, plenty of the created jobs were in the private sector.

 

[uscitizen]

And another chart showing just how frightening the economic outlook is getting, and just how much of a waste the porkulus bill was for Americans...

http://michaelscomments.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/stimulus-vs-unemployment-december-dots.gif

It is clear that government analysts were overly optimistic in their predictions, but your chart certainly does not in any way prove that things would not have been dramatically WORSE if nothing had been done.

Since all other economic indicators other than Unemployment have improved dramatically, and unemployment is always the last thing to improve in a recovery, it would seem that things are in fact bound to improve.

Again, I would direct people to the first 2 1/2 years of the Reagan administration, where simliar data was produced, and the unemployment rate went up to 10.8%.

Our govt analysts have been consistently overly optimistic since this whole thing started.
So optimistic that it is a very valid question if it is intentional deception/lying?
And this applies to current and past administrations.

 

[concept]

Dems have had control of the purse strings since 2007.

They have royally screwed us all up in that time and if they hadn't had control of the msm, would have been turfed out long ago.

They are weak on national security and weak on the economy.

It's beyond me how they keep getting elected. But really, you get what you pay for.

 

[uscitizen]

There is no job creation. Why would there be? Employers will not hire people in the face of uncertainty. How can I be certain what I will pay for energy? We have rising oil prices, a falling dollar, a 12 trillion debt, and the prospect of economic disaster with proposed cap and trade legislation. What will it cost me to comply with new government regulations? How high will taxes will rise with a fiscally reckless POTUS and a rubber stamp Congress? How much each new employee will cost after Pelosi and Reid reach in my pocket?

With the damage these business hating liberals in Congress can wreak, I will wait as long as possible to add new employees and every business owner I know feels the same way.

There's plenty of job creation, there's just job losses in other places that are causing said job creation to not have a positive effect.

As another poster just mentioned, there's a difference between unemployment and job creation.

Just as purchasing goods and services on a credit card does not increase your net worth, new government jobs are not "job creation".

currently approx 30% of jobs in this country are govt created jobs. Either by direct action such as genuine govt employees or by indirect action as in the defense industry or other industires providing goods and services to the government.

One consequence of that is those who want smaller govt also want less jobs and tax revenue.

just saying.

 

[Vast LWC]

Our govt analysts have been consistently overly optimistic since this whole thing started.
So optimistic that it is a very valid question if it is intentional deception/lying?
And this applies to current and past administrations.

I think that's a valid question.

One might argue that the economy thrives more on optimism though. Perhaps they were saying what they did to help the economy along...

You raise a good point though.

 

[code1211]

HUH? Why would I bew defending those who helped to create the mess in the first place?

I include Republicans, Demoncrats and finiancial guru's.
And last but not least the American People for spending on credit like there is no tomorrow, embracing cheap chinese imports, and burning energy like fools.

So it would appear we agree that the Democrat leadership is only making a bad situation worse, not better, and that Obama is quickening the pace of eventual full on economic collapse.

I do not agree with that.
I think the dems are trying to help the situation. Not doing great at it but doing far more than the obstructionist republicans.

TAX CUT![/QUOTE]


I'm not sure if that last part was a request for a tx cut or not.

Do you think that Nancy, Harry and Barrack are contemplating a tax cut? So far, they pretty copmmitted to increasing taxes.

 

[Zander]

Just as purchasing goods and services on a credit card does not increase your net worth, new government jobs are not "job creation".

Are people not making a salary? Are they not performing a service to society in return for monetary compensation?

Seems like "job creation" to me. Besides, plenty of the created jobs were in the private sector.

The government creates nothing. The money to pay for these new employees comes from taxation or borrowing. Higher taxes discourage job creation, and government borrowing hurts private sector borrowing. Where do you think employers get money to expand? They borrow. When the Government is tapping vast amounts of available capital for it's needs, it raises the cost of credit for private borrowers. That destroys job creation.

When you buy your dinner with a credit card you are stimulating the local economy and you are feeding yourself temporarily. Eventually however, that bill is going to come due and if you cannot pay it, you've stimulated nothing except yourself.......That is what we have today.

 

[uscitizen]

Just as purchasing goods and services on a credit card does not increase your net worth, new government jobs are not "job creation".

Are people not making a salary? Are they not performing a service to society in return for monetary compensation?

Seems like "job creation" to me. Besides, plenty of the created jobs were in the private sector.

The government creates nothing. The money to pay for these new employees comes from taxation or borrowing. Higher taxes discourage job creation, and government borrowing hurts private sector borrowing. Where do you think employers get money to expand? They borrow. When the Government is tapping vast amounts of available capital for it's needs, it raises the cost of credit for private borrowers. That destroys job creation.

When you buy your dinner with a credit card you are stimulating the local economy and you are feeding yourself temporarily. Eventually however, that bill is going to come due and if you cannot pay it, you've stimulated nothing except yourself.......That is what we have today.

And that has been the USA's main source of econic "growth" since the about 1980.

govt spending was one way to hide the effects of offshoring and the trade imbalance.

 

[Vast LWC]

The government creates nothing. The money to pay for these new employees comes from taxation or borrowing. Higher taxes discourage job creation, and government borrowing hurts private sector borrowing. Where do you think employers get money to expand? They borrow. When the Government is tapping vast amounts of available capital for it's needs, it raises the cost of credit for private borrowers. That destroys job creation.

When you buy your dinner with a credit card you are stimulating the local economy and you are feeding yourself temporarily. Eventually however, that bill is going to come due and if you cannot pay it, you've stimulated nothing except yourself.......That is what we have today.

But this is only true if you believe that the only jobs of worth in a society are those in the private sector. That is an ideological viewpoint, not necessarily a factual one.

Personally, being a veteran, I believe that there are in fact many jobs of worth that can be provided by government and can contribute to industry as well as the society as a whole.

 

[code1211]

Man you guys are funny.

Republicans running around in circles screaming like little girls at the top of their lungs with their hands flapping and seemingly broken at the wrists, "Obama isn't giving us jobs. He lied."
While,

At the same time, running around in circles, screaming like little girls at the top of their lungs with their hands flapping and seemingly broken at the wrists, "Democrats think big government is the answer to all our problems. What is wrong with them? Government will take over and control our lives".

So which is it? Government is or isn't the answer? In the mean time, go back to school and learn a trade.

KWITCHYERBELLIAKEN!!

If all he did was lie, that would only mean he was a politician.

He asked for a trillion dollars to act a stimulus to keep unemployment under 8%. He got it. We are now above 10%. 20% of the male workforce is unemployed.

Either he lied and stole the money for his cronies or he's a stupid, inexperienced incompetent who got the money and spent it incorrectly. Either way, it's not doing any good for us, U. S.

It would have surprised me greatly if his plan worked, but I would have appreciated the success. I disagreed with it at the start because it seemed to be a poorly concieved and obviously a pork laden gift pack for his cronies and party members. It obviously, in retrospect, was exactly what it seemed to be.

Disagreeing with an idea, watching it fail and saying that it failed is not belly aching. It's rational. The steps of correcting a problem are:

Identify the problem.
Identify the cause.
Suggest a solution.
Create a plan.
Set measures of success (key success indicators or goals)
Implement the plan.
Track progress toward goal.

Set a schedule for periodic review to see if the plan is working or if it needs to be changed. Repeat the solution process on this periodic basis.

The stimulus identified the problem.

From that step forward, none of the steps were followed. We keep, however, throwing more money down the various holes to help to re-elect Democrats which was the actual goal of the Stimulus.

Are the experienced Thieves in Congress or the inexperienced thief in the White House more deserving of our trust?

 

[Toro]

So it would appear we agree that the Democrat leadership is only making a bad situation worse, not better, and that Obama is quickening the pace of eventual full on economic collapse.

I do not agree with that.
I think the dems are trying to help the situation. Not doing great at it but doing far more than the obstructionist republicans.

TAX CUT!

But the Dems are spending on credit to the tune of trillions, sending jobs to China by the thousands and thousands, embracing cheaper imports, and "burning energy like fools" as much as anyone prior.

So again, how are they "trying to help the situation"?

But the Democrats have not been spending "trillions." About a third of the $787 billion stimulus has been dispersed. The biggest portion of the stimulus spent thus far have been on tax cuts and on transfers to the states, which are being used primarily for assistance programs. Only a small amount has been spent on infrastructure.

It is important to understand that the deficit in 2008 was $1 trillion, before the election. This deficit is because of the automatic stabilizers in the economy.

As for the jobs report, 85k came in a bit lower than expectations. The recovery will be slow and shallow, but Republicans shouldn't be crowing too much right now as we will see nonfarm payrolls turn positive this year.

BTW, revised numbers for November were +4,000, the first positive reading in a few years.

 

[code1211]

Umm run that chart back to 1999.

I'm not sure what that might prove. The Stimulus was sold as a fix-it for the situation as it existed in 2009. The world in 1999 was a different world.

After the DotComs bubble burst, the Y2K thingy ran its course and the 9/11 murders, the world changed.

 

[Conspiracist]

And the more we increase taxes, layers of regulations, etc the more jobs will leave this country.

We have been cutting our own economic throats for decades.

Sooner rather than later we will reach the tipping point - if we have not done so already...

No amount of tax cutting can possibly equal the cost savings of people working for cents on the dollar in foreign countries.

The only thing you're doing by cutting taxes further is lowering revenues, and thus increasing the deficit.

The only way to stop jobs from going overseas is to introduce protectionist trade policies.

Now, I'm good with having those policies, especially where China is concerned, as they are currently conducting a one-sided trade war against us through their currency policies.

Are you good with new protectionist trade policies?

I would applaud protectionism. Our trade policies are EXACTLY why we are in this predicament and you rarely hear this from politicians. We had a U.S. representative named Martin Hoke who wanted to vote for WTO and free trade with China but voted against for his constituent's wishes. He was voted out the following term. What we need are more politicians who vote our wishes and not what they are told to by party leaders.

But.... until we stop penalizing companies for continuing to do business here we will continue to lose jobs.