jewish settlement on arab lands

[tommywho70x]

i must have a masochistic streak.

these links are to articles about jewish settlements and the impediment they present to the peace process.

the one about the developer has some pretty outrageous statements about jerusalem being for jews only.

bounty of war, i guess. how many of you remember that jerusalem means place of peace?

no peace there. not until those folks stop killing each other.

Israel again rejects call to halt settlement construction | McClatchy

Israeli activist buys Arabs' land for Jewish settlements | McClatchy

Disregarding peace talks, Israel announces more settlement construction | McClatchy

 

[jillian]

and?

why don't you leave the israel bashing to the terrorist supporters? certainly they spew enough trash around the board.

levite, huh?

 

[Marc39]

i must have a masochistic streak.

these links are to articles about jewish settlements and the impediment they present to the peace process.

the one about the developer has some pretty outrageous statements about jerusalem being for jews only.

bounty of war, i guess. how many of you remember that jerusalem means place of peace?

no peace there. not until those folks stop killing each other.

Israel again rejects call to halt settlement construction | McClatchy

Israeli activist buys Arabs' land for Jewish settlements | McClatchy

Disregarding peace talks, Israel announces more settlement construction | McClatchy

Not very insightful links.

There were no settlements in 1947 when Arabs attacked the Jews one day after the UN conferred Israeli statehood.

There were no settlements in 1948 when Arabs attacked Israel.

There were no settlements in 1967 when Arabs mobilized to attack Israel, provoking the 1967 War.

The reason you are so clueless about Middle East affairs is you read clueless source material.

You're helpless and hopeless, fat boy.

 

[CMike]

It's backwards. It's Arab settlements on isreals land.

 

[P F Tinmore]

i must have a masochistic streak.

these links are to articles about jewish settlements and the impediment they present to the peace process.

the one about the developer has some pretty outrageous statements about jerusalem being for jews only.

bounty of war, i guess. how many of you remember that jerusalem means place of peace?

no peace there. not until those folks stop killing each other.

Israel again rejects call to halt settlement construction | McClatchy

Israeli activist buys Arabs' land for Jewish settlements | McClatchy

Disregarding peace talks, Israel announces more settlement construction | McClatchy

Not very insightful links.

There were no settlements in 1947 when Arabs attacked the Jews one day after the UN conferred Israeli statehood.

Wrong. UN resolution 181 was a recommendation by the General Assembly to be sent to the Security council for approval and implementation. That never happened. The UN did not create Israel.

There were no settlements in 1948 when Arabs attacked Israel.

Wrong. By the time the foreigners declared themselves to be a borderless state in 1948, hundreds of Palestinian neighborhoods, towns, and villages were cleansed of their populations and many had settlers moving in.

There were no settlements in 1967 when Arabs mobilized to attack Israel, provoking the 1967 War.

Wrong. Same as above only more so.

The reason you are so clueless about Middle East affairs is you read clueless source material.

You're helpless and hopeless, fat boy.

Irrelevant speculation

You need to read up.

 

[Marc39]

Wrong. UN resolution 181 was a recommendation by the General Assembly to be sent to the Security council for approval and implementation. That never happened. The UN did not create Israel.

Wrong. Everything you write, the opposite is true.

UN Res 181 was passed by a majority of the General Assembly, which was all that was required.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine#The_vote

In fact, no sovereign state in the world has UN Security Council approval. It's not the role of the Security Council.

In fact, Israel is the only state in the world with both UN and League of Nation endorsements.

Wrong. By the time the foreigners declared themselves to be a borderless state in 1948, hundreds of Palestinian neighborhoods, towns, and villages were cleansed of their populations and many had settlers moving in.

Wrong. Everything you write, the opposite is true.

Arabs did not begin calling themselves Palestinians until the late 1960s. You were humiliated yesterday in clumsily being unable to even define Palestinians.

UN Res. 181 makes no mention of Palestiniains.
The legally binding League of Nations' Palestine Mandate establishing Palestine as the Jewish National Home makes no mention of Palestinians nor Arabs.

Borders for the Jewish National Home were established by the League of Nations.

Wrong. Same as above only more so.

Wrong. Everything you write, the opposite is true.


You're done, Forum Dunce.

 

[Neubarth]

For those people who do not know what is going on, Islam teaches that lies are holy if they advance the cause of Islam. Any lie at any time is approved by the Moon God Allah (Baal from Ba'Al lah) if the lie can be used to kill or discourage infidels and advance Islam.

Mohammet showed his followers the way when he killed all of the Jewish merchants of Medina, took their possessions, raped their wives and sold their children into slavery. This was done to financially advance his followers and to satisfy their perverse sexual desires at the expense of a minority people (the Jews).

 

[tommywho70x]

and?

why don't you leave the israel bashing to the terrorist supporters? certainly they spew enough trash around the board.

levite, huh?

if this is what you call polite, i'd sure love to see you on a tear --- against somebody else.

and why don't you address the issues in the links presented rather than attacking me for posting something you racist jews are incapable of addressing.

i am a hereditary priest of the melchizedekan order. that's what it means to be a levite. i'm born with an obligation to serve hashem, live according to the law and teach it with every breath.

i don't care who started the fight. i don't care how many more jews were killed by arabs than arabs by jews. i definitely do not give two shits about anything that happened prior to about 1880 in terms of history of the region.

i don't care about anything but the innocent people and irreplaceable antiquities of both sides that are being destroyed.

address the issues instead of calling everybody who criticizes israel an anti-semitic terrorist supporter.

 

[CMike]

If you serve hashem hashem clearly spelled out israel's borders. I am a kohen.

The Arabs who have settled in judea and Samaria are in Israel. Therefore , they are Arab settelers within Israel .

 

[tommywho70x]

If you serve hashem hashem clearly spelled out israel's borders. I am a kohen.

The Arabs who have settled in judea and Samaria are in Israel. Therefore , they are Arab settelers within Israel .

yes, he did. correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't the land defined by what abraham could see from the top of the mount? also, there were people who were not descended from abraham living within those borders then and the descendants of ishmael following that.

if that's true, how would those borders compare to what was mapped for the partition? what they are today?

those people have the right to live somewhere. where is it going to be?

 

[P F Tinmore]

If you serve hashem hashem clearly spelled out israel's borders. I am a kohen.

The Arabs who have settled in judea and Samaria are in Israel. Therefore , they are Arab settelers within Israel .

1949 Armistice Agreements. Israel's borders defined.

The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949

The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949

The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949

The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949

 

[CMike]

You are wrong, I'll post the passage shortly.

Where they should live?

The Arab countries are about the size of America and Israel is as small as new jersey, one of the smallest American states.

 

[CMike]

If you serve hashem hashem clearly spelled out israel's borders. I am a kohen.

The Arabs who have settled in judea and Samaria are in Israel. Therefore , they are Arab settelers within Israel .

1949 Armistice Agreements. Israel's

The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949

The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949

Too bad the Arabs never recognized the borders and invaded, huh?

 

[P F Tinmore]

If you serve hashem hashem clearly spelled out israel's borders. I am a kohen.

The Arabs who have settled in judea and Samaria are in Israel. Therefore , they are Arab settelers within Israel .

1949 Armistice Agreements. Israel's

The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949

The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949

Too bad the Arabs never recognized the borders and invaded, huh?

Uh, this is 1949.

 

[tommywho70x]

You are wrong, I'll post the passage shortly.

Where they should live?

The Arab countries are about the size of America and Israel is as small as new jersey, one of the smallest American states.

well that isn't bloody likely.

jordan and lebanon both were nearly wrecked when they tried to push the palestinian arabs onto their lands.

 

[Marc39]

1949 Armistice Agreements. Israel's

The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949

The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949

Too bad the Arabs never recognized the borders and invaded, huh?

Uh, this is 1949.

Uh, the League of Nations established Israel's borders, from Eastern Palestine to the Med. Sea, in 1922, stupid.

 

[CMike]

Genesis 15 18. On that day, the Lord formed a covenant with Abram, saying, "To your seed I have given this land, from the river of Egypt until the great river, the Euphrates river

The problem is that it doesn't matter if Israel was 6 feet by 6 feet, the arabs still would want to obliterate Israel.

This is the way that I look at it, the arabs didn't accept the 1948 division, therefore, they can't now say hey accept it now that we lost the war. They lost land based on wars, just like any other people lost land.

Also, the issue is Israel is nowsmall piece of land, and the arabs have made it crystal clear that they don't accept Israel's right to exist. They may tone it down in English, but it's what they say in arabic that matters.

Israel now are on borders that are hardly defensible. As I said it's about the size of NJ with the arab countries about the size of the US.

Israel encompasses, judea and samaria (the west bank & gaza) and in fact it's those arabs who are setteling on Israel's land not the other way around.

Now if these arabs want to swear allegience to Israel as well as be drafted into the IDF, I could support a process to make them Israeli citizens, but they don't.

They are pawns. For what purpose? So the arabs can grab as much land as possible for vague promises of peace that will never come to fruition, unless Israel is totally destroyed.

Why should Israel help the arabs destroy itself?

 

[CMike]

This is intersting too.


Tanach Study Center - Matot-Masei


The people of Israel desperately desire peace. And we desperately desire that our enemies should desire this as much as we do. We are simply not prepared to accept a reality that contradicts this all-consuming desire.

People looking at us from the outside are scratching their heads and saying: What's the matter with these people? Have their brains leaked out of their heads? Don't they see that every time they make concessions to their enemies, or even talk about making concessions -- more people die? More Jews die, and more Arabs die, and the sufferings of both peoples increase. Yet when they hold firm, refuse to give up any land, and fight the killers with intelligence and determination, there are fewer Jewish casualties, fewer Arab deaths, and the lives of both peoples improve. They've been in this back-and-forth cycle for 100 years now, and every time the same thing happens!

But even when we lose the ability to think straight, we still have the Torah. So what does the Torah say about the question of "land for peace"?

There's actually an explicit, unambiguous ruling in the Shulchan Aruch, the Torah's "Code of Law." It's in the Code's first volume, Orach Chayim, section 329. This law does not even speak about the land of Israel -- it applies equally to Jerusalem, to Brooklyn, New York, and to Wellington, New Zealand.

The law describes the following scenario: A hostile army attacks you, or threatens to attack you, and demands a piece of territory. They say, "Give us this piece of land, and we'll leave you alone." The overriding issue is pikuach nefesh, saving lives, which supersedes the entire Torah. Do we go to war to prevent the enemy's occupation of the territory, or do we relinquish the territory in return for a promise of future non-aggression?

The Torah rules: Giving up territory will make you more vulnerable to attack. To give up territory in return for a promise of "peace" is not just a reckless gamble of your and your people's lives -- it's a gamble that you're sure to lose. Do not yield territory that makes you more vulnerable to attack, even if you must go to war to prevent that. It's a matter of pikuach nefesh -- preventing the loss of life. War is a dangerous thing, but one must go to war to save lives.
The holiness of the land is not the issue (though the Torah has a lot to say about that). The fact that the land of Israel is the eternal possession of all Jews of all generations, and no one has the right to give it to anyone else, is not the issue (though the Torah has lots to say on that, too). The issue is pikuach nefesh, saving lives.

Protecting your own life and the lives of your loved ones is generally a matter of common sense. It's also a Torah ideal. Common sense sometimes fails us. That's why we have a Torah.

 

[tommywho70x]

there would be a whole lot of really upset arabs if the israelis decided to stake a claim on everything between the nile and the euphrates.

i'll have to go crack open my bible. i distinctly remember somebody being told that their property included everything they could see from the top of what is now the temple mount.

 

[CMike]

I just quoted Bereshit (Genesis) chapter 15:18

Genesis - Chapter 15 (Parshah Lech Lecha) - Genesis - Torah - Bible