Jewish and Liberal...?

[Intense]

I claimed that Catholicism holds that laypeople require Church assistance in order to have a personal relationship to God. I proved my case with links. All you've got is stories about your wife and your friend.

You have not proved your case. You equate Personal Relationship with God to Participation in Church Sacraments, God is not limited, to the Sacraments of the Church. Your definition of Personal Relationship is flawed. That is the point. Conscience is in each one of us. Locke Saw it, Madison, Jefferson, Thoreau, King, Gandhi. When I speak of Conscience, it is from the Human perspective, not Church Dogma. Think about what you are saying in your own argument. What is assistance? Primary? Secondary? Advisory? As Human Beings, that is the Root, before any club we think or wish to belong, Conscience is the strongest factor in each life. By your claim, you are stating either consciously or unconsciously, that one needs outside permission to follow the conviction of ones own heart. To me, that is an abomination. It is a false path. That is not the meaning of the Church Dictate. The Church does not tell us to choose between It and God, one or the other.

". You equate Personal Relationship with God to Participation in Church Sacraments"

No you moron!! I dont do that; YOUR OWN FUCKING CHURCH MAKES THAT EQUATION

And like most of the self-rightous hypocrit xtians, you're too dumb to know what your own faith promotes as The Truth

Your failure to comprehend that a personal relationship with God is more comprehensive than participation and membership in the Church. True, the Church has a Role, It claims certain Authority, yet in matters of Conscience, as a Human Being, We all have tough choices to make. God is the ultimate Authority over all things, even the Church. Sometimes even the Church is dragged kicking and screaming, just as you are now. In the end it's not about You and I, but correct action. You do not know my faith Sangha, you may know a tiny part of it, but to presume that you think you know my mind, is way off. You still have yet to recognize the foundation of my premise. Your anger and prejudice imprison you.

 

[jillian]

I can understand what your saying but is this a fair assessment?

I'm trying to develop a base of understanding.

I'd rather not be shanghaied down the wrong path..

because jews stand up for the rights of others b/c our rights have been violated so many times.

because we believe that if you save one person you save the world.

and the values of the talmud, if taken seriously, are liberal.

and we don't proselytize so we don't confuse our religious beliefs with civil law.

personally, i don't understand how any 'christian' who actually listens to what jesus said could be anything BUT liberal.

It's a different kind of Liberal. We have a different warranty and return policy. Free Shipping too.

sorry, hon.. i haven't seen that.

 

[sangha]

You have not proved your case. You equate Personal Relationship with God to Participation in Church Sacraments, God is not limited, to the Sacraments of the Church. Your definition of Personal Relationship is flawed. That is the point. Conscience is in each one of us. Locke Saw it, Madison, Jefferson, Thoreau, King, Gandhi. When I speak of Conscience, it is from the Human perspective, not Church Dogma. Think about what you are saying in your own argument. What is assistance? Primary? Secondary? Advisory? As Human Beings, that is the Root, before any club we think or wish to belong, Conscience is the strongest factor in each life. By your claim, you are stating either consciously or unconsciously, that one needs outside permission to follow the conviction of ones own heart. To me, that is an abomination. It is a false path. That is not the meaning of the Church Dictate. The Church does not tell us to choose between It and God, one or the other.

". You equate Personal Relationship with God to Participation in Church Sacraments"

No you moron!! I dont do that; YOUR OWN FUCKING CHURCH MAKES THAT EQUATION

And like most of the self-rightous hypocrit xtians, you're too dumb to know what your own faith promotes as The Truth

Your failure to comprehend that a personal relationship with God is more comprehensive than participation and membership in the Church. True, the Church has a Role, It claims certain Authority, yet in matters of Conscience, as a Human Being, We all have tough choices to make. God is the ultimate Authority over all things, even the Church. Sometimes even the Church is dragged kicking and screaming, just as you are now. In the end it's not about You and I, but correct action. You do not know my faith Sangha, you may know a tiny part of it, but to presume that you think you know my mind, is way off. You still have yet to recognize the foundation of my premise. Your anger and prejudice imprison you.

No you wingnut. You fail to comprehend that I don't believe any of that malarky. You keep going on and on about what you think. You don't seem to realize that your beliefs are irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[Intense]

And I suppose you stupidly believe that conservatives played no part. Uh huh...

What "attack" on federalism? What "rights" have you lost? What "hostile" takeover of free will have we taken from you? That "foot" you describe, which really doesn't exist except in your selfish imagination, is actually TWO feet, one right and one left. But you would prefer to pretend that Republicans had nothing to do with taxation, regulation, blah blah blah, all those necessary evils in ANY democracy the size of ours. Sorry, pal, but your little game has been played too many times, and you lose when ideological jibberjabber meets reality. I've had my fill of this "freedom" bullshit from the avalanche of conservative television ads, and many people obviously didn't buy it. I never have.

You are so full of Bullshit Maggie, you don't know up from down, left from right. You should consider control over your own resources, before trying to play with what is not rightly yours. You are confusing Progressive Republicanism and Progressive Liberalism with Conservatism. The difference between when I give and you give is that when I give, it is from my own wallet, or resources, or sweat.
What Right's have we lost to Tyranny? Enumerated Powers, 3 Equal Branches of Government, The Commerce Clause, the General Welfare Clause. We live in a land and time of Regulation's, Fine's, Fee's Taxes, and Penalties, choking us to death, mostly rooted in imagined powers. The Bureaucracy has long abandoned reason. Justify the Hypocrisy all you want. It's Bullshit, just like you. Before today, when was the last time we even communicated? How often. Yep.

What nonsense!! This wingnut thinks we don't have 3 co-equal branches of govt and she thinks The Commerce clause, the general welfare clause are "rights"

Wingnuts think the constitution prohibits regulations, fines, fees, taxes and penalties. The wingnuts don't believe in the policies practiced by our Founding Fathers, and the have the nerve to call themselves "conservative"

This wingnut doesn't even know what a right is. She thinks the govt has rights

You are a Left wingnut, Sangha. The Court has elevated Itself above the rest. Jefferson's term was Oligarchy. Part of The Original Role was to Interpret Original Meaning, not Construction, not Rulings based on imagination. A line was crossed. You presume allot, it translates to babbling. I think the mistranslation of enumerated powers, the Commerce Clause, and the General Welfare Clause, stole Rights and Liberties. Excess and abuse steals Liberty. When the vehicle used to maintain order, looses focus, and the consent of the governed, there is a problem with the limits it imposes. I know this is hard for you, but if you try real hard you can do it.
I hate to shock you, but I am not Female, and I am not Gay or Bi. You can't have me. Live with it.

 

[Intense]

So are you saying the church no longer threatens people with mortal sin if they miss mass on Sunday, don't participate in communion at least once a year, or go to confession at least once a year?

They no longer threaten you that if you die as an excommunicated member of the catholic church you will go to hell?

Did your Mommy ever tell you that if you did it too much you would go blind? Did you go blind?

How many people do you know that are excommunicated? Including Pedophile Priests? Uh-huh.

There are areas within Church Doctrine where I find total Harmony and Communion, there are areas that I do not. If it is a matter of Conscience or even Interpretation of Scripture, It's an internal decision, no hard feelings, no bitterness, I will not support Man of Government in matters I perceive contrary to Conscience. I truly believe that to be an Unalienable Right, and I support the premise even when we are on opposing sides. It is more important to me that you side with your own conscience, than that you agree with me.

Let me ask you this seriously. If you had to choose between Salvation, and the group, What would you choose? Would you even hesitate? That is Conscience. Locke, Madison nailed it.

Religious Freedom Page: Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, James Madison (1785)

Christians, particularly catholics, LOVE pedophilia, so I don't know why you would expect them to excommunicate anyone for that

However. the Church has excommunicated scores of people for heresy

Back to scorch and burn? What can I say? You are a Vindictive Disingenuous Fuck? ... But you already know that.

 

[Intense]

because jews stand up for the rights of others b/c our rights have been violated so many times.

because we believe that if you save one person you save the world.

and the values of the talmud, if taken seriously, are liberal.

and we don't proselytize so we don't confuse our religious beliefs with civil law.

personally, i don't understand how any 'christian' who actually listens to what jesus said could be anything BUT liberal.

It's a different kind of Liberal. We have a different warranty and return policy. Free Shipping too.

sorry, hon.. i haven't seen that.

We all give and do Jillian, just in different ways. With my own property I am Liberal. I just believe that the best way to effect change is persuasion, not mandate.

 

[jillian]

It's a different kind of Liberal. We have a different warranty and return policy. Free Shipping too.

sorry, hon.. i haven't seen that.

We all give and do Jillian, just in different ways. With my own property I am Liberal. I just believe that the best way to effect change is persuasion, not mandate.

oh i have no doubt about conservatives being charitable. but that isn't what liberalism is. liberalism is about moving society forward. conservatism is about maintaining the status quo.

most of these self-professsed conservatives aren't that either... they're reactionaries.

but the question in the thread is why are jews largely liberal.

 

[Intense]

". You equate Personal Relationship with God to Participation in Church Sacraments"

No you moron!! I dont do that; YOUR OWN FUCKING CHURCH MAKES THAT EQUATION

And like most of the self-rightous hypocrit xtians, you're too dumb to know what your own faith promotes as The Truth

Your failure to comprehend that a personal relationship with God is more comprehensive than participation and membership in the Church. True, the Church has a Role, It claims certain Authority, yet in matters of Conscience, as a Human Being, We all have tough choices to make. God is the ultimate Authority over all things, even the Church. Sometimes even the Church is dragged kicking and screaming, just as you are now. In the end it's not about You and I, but correct action. You do not know my faith Sangha, you may know a tiny part of it, but to presume that you think you know my mind, is way off. You still have yet to recognize the foundation of my premise. Your anger and prejudice imprison you.

No you wingnut. You fail to comprehend that I don't believe any of that malarky. You keep going on and on about what you think. You don't seem to realize that your beliefs are irrelevant to this discussion.

My beliefs are irrelevant to the discussion but yours aren't? Precious. You mis-characterize something beyond your understanding, refuse to retract it, refuse to even consider the perspective, and I'm unreasonable. You are a bitter Soul.

 

[sangha]

Your failure to comprehend that a personal relationship with God is more comprehensive than participation and membership in the Church. True, the Church has a Role, It claims certain Authority, yet in matters of Conscience, as a Human Being, We all have tough choices to make. God is the ultimate Authority over all things, even the Church. Sometimes even the Church is dragged kicking and screaming, just as you are now. In the end it's not about You and I, but correct action. You do not know my faith Sangha, you may know a tiny part of it, but to presume that you think you know my mind, is way off. You still have yet to recognize the foundation of my premise. Your anger and prejudice imprison you.

No you wingnut. You fail to comprehend that I don't believe any of that malarky. You keep going on and on about what you think. You don't seem to realize that your beliefs are irrelevant to this discussion.

My beliefs are irrelevant to the discussion but yours aren't? Precious. You mis-characterize something beyond your understanding, refuse to retract it, refuse to even consider the perspective, and I'm unreasonable. You are a bitter Soul.

My beliefs are just as irrelevant to Catholic doctrine as yours are, which is why I haven't spoken about my religious beliefs.

You can't help but talk about your beliefs, over and over, because you think you are oh-so precious

 

[judyd]

You have not proved your case. You equate Personal Relationship with God to Participation in Church Sacraments, God is not limited, to the Sacraments of the Church. Your definition of Personal Relationship is flawed. That is the point. Conscience is in each one of us. Locke Saw it, Madison, Jefferson, Thoreau, King, Gandhi. When I speak of Conscience, it is from the Human perspective, not Church Dogma. Think about what you are saying in your own argument. What is assistance? Primary? Secondary? Advisory? As Human Beings, that is the Root, before any club we think or wish to belong, Conscience is the strongest factor in each life. By your claim, you are stating either consciously or unconsciously, that one needs outside permission to follow the conviction of ones own heart. To me, that is an abomination. It is a false path. That is not the meaning of the Church Dictate. The Church does not tell us to choose between It and God, one or the other.

So are you saying the church no longer threatens people with mortal sin if they miss mass on Sunday, don't participate in communion at least once a year, or go to confession at least once a year?

They no longer threaten you that if you die as an excommunicated member of the catholic church you will go to hell?

Did your Mommy ever tell you that if you did it too much you would go blind? Did you go blind?

How many people do you know that are excommunicated? Including Pedophile Priests? Uh-huh.

There are areas within Church Doctrine where I find total Harmony and Communion, there are areas that I do not. If it is a matter of Conscience or even Interpretation of Scripture, It's an internal decision, no hard feelings, no bitterness, I will not support Man of Government in matters I perceive contrary to Conscience. I truly believe that to be an Unalienable Right, and I support the premise even when we are on opposing sides. It is more important to me that you side with your own conscience, than that you agree with me.

Let me ask you this seriously. If you had to choose between Salvation, and the group, What would you choose? Would you even hesitate? That is Conscience. Locke, Madison nailed it.

Religious Freedom Page: Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, James Madison (1785)

So, if I understand you correctly from your comments, you really aren't a devout catholic. Because the catholics that I know are quite firm in their beliefs and in following whatever the pope tells them. I find it curious that it appears you have done nothing to find something in which you can strongly believe.

 

[Intense]

sorry, hon.. i haven't seen that.

We all give and do Jillian, just in different ways. With my own property I am Liberal. I just believe that the best way to effect change is persuasion, not mandate.

oh i have no doubt about conservatives being charitable. but that isn't what liberalism is. liberalism is about moving society forward. conservatism is about maintaining the status quo.

most of these self-professsed conservatives aren't that either... they're reactionaries.

but the question in the thread is why are jews largely liberal.

I think that the way Conservatives view change is through due process, through the rule of law, not abandoning what works just for the sake of abandoning it, but building off of it, pruning, maintaining, advancing cautiously. Some things once done cannot be easily undone. Intention is one thing. A working formula to advance a goal is another. The end does not justify the means, method makes or breaks the effort. Method can often result in Felony conviction too.

Why Are Jews largely liberal? Which Jews? Reformed? Orthodox? Isn't it more like the split here is 90/10 as opposed to Israel 10/90? Sort of inverted. That always fascinated me. Do you know who one of my Super Heroes is besides Locke, Madison, Jefferson, Thoreau??? Guess.
Make sure you are sitting down and not drinking a beverage, no bubbles up your nose, don't bite your tongue.


Benjamin Netanyahu Alway's liked and supported him. There, that wasn't so bad.

Why are Jews largely liberal? What is the difference between persuasion and manipulation? Understanding, effort.

 

[CMike]

Some of it is tradition. Many jews are liberal because their parents were democrats. That is because jews have had a history of discrimination and had something in common with the civil rights movements.

The problem is that the parties have changed. The democrat party has radicalized and their agenda is not in the interest of jews, such as taxing the shit out of people who have work, racial quotas, etc.

I was in a jewish HS and college. In those schools I was the head of the young republicans and the college republicans. I was also the head for NYS at that time.

I remember I even headed an anti-Hussein rally in front of the Iraqi mission during the first Gulf War where I burned an effigy of Saddam Hussein. Ah....those were the days.

The times be changing.

Liberalism is taking the country in the wrong direction. It punishes those who wish to achieve, and rewards those whom want to life dependent on the government.

 

[CMike]

So are you saying the church no longer threatens people with mortal sin if they miss mass on Sunday, don't participate in communion at least once a year, or go to confession at least once a year?

They no longer threaten you that if you die as an excommunicated member of the catholic church you will go to hell?

Did your Mommy ever tell you that if you did it too much you would go blind? Did you go blind?

How many people do you know that are excommunicated? Including Pedophile Priests? Uh-huh.

There are areas within Church Doctrine where I find total Harmony and Communion, there are areas that I do not. If it is a matter of Conscience or even Interpretation of Scripture, It's an internal decision, no hard feelings, no bitterness, I will not support Man of Government in matters I perceive contrary to Conscience. I truly believe that to be an Unalienable Right, and I support the premise even when we are on opposing sides. It is more important to me that you side with your own conscience, than that you agree with me.

Let me ask you this seriously. If you had to choose between Salvation, and the group, What would you choose? Would you even hesitate? That is Conscience. Locke, Madison nailed it.

Religious Freedom Page: Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, James Madison (1785)

Christians, particularly catholics, LOVE pedophilia, so I don't know why you would expect them to excommunicate anyone for that

However. the Church has excommunicated scores of people for heresy

You are an idiot.

Thank you for your attention on this matter.

 

[CMike]

""I've often wondered why Jewish People are liberal""

There is no such thing as 'Jewish' people. A jew is someone who believes in judaism, just as a xtian believes in xtianity or a muslim in islam.

Being a jew is not a nationality it is a religion.

No, a jew is someone who has a jewish mother or converts to Judaism .

 

[Intense]

No you wingnut. You fail to comprehend that I don't believe any of that malarky. You keep going on and on about what you think. You don't seem to realize that your beliefs are irrelevant to this discussion.

My beliefs are irrelevant to the discussion but yours aren't? Precious. You mis-characterize something beyond your understanding, refuse to retract it, refuse to even consider the perspective, and I'm unreasonable. You are a bitter Soul.

My beliefs are just as irrelevant to Catholic doctrine as yours are, which is why I haven't spoken about my religious beliefs.

You can't help but talk about your beliefs, over and over, because you think you are oh-so precious

The core premise of your argument is false, it is limited, you fail to see that. All the rest is a dog and pony show. Our contact with our Creator is not limited to the will or consent of the Church. The notion is absurd. You are out of context. Yes The Church has absurd notions of It's own, who doesn't? Every Soul is Precious. Every Soul Matters.

 

[jillian]

Liberalism is taking the country in the wrong direction. It punishes those who wish to achieve, and rewards those whom want to life dependent on the government.

can't have it both ways... either the liberals are the 'elites' or they're lazy. and your characterization is inaccurate.

but the reality is most liberals here would be considered moderate in any other country.

i think perhaps so-called conservatives need to stop being so threatened by anything that seems the least bit moderate.

 

[CMike]

I do not consider liberals elite , I consider them ignorant .

 

[Intense]

Liberalism is taking the country in the wrong direction. It punishes those who wish to achieve, and rewards those whom want to life dependent on the government.

can't have it both ways... either the liberals are the 'elites' or they're lazy. and your characterization is inaccurate.

but the reality is most liberals here would be considered moderate in any other country.

i think perhaps so-called conservatives need to stop being so threatened by anything that seems the least bit moderate.

I think it will work itself out. So, big changes coming to Coney Island and Aqueduct!!!
!!! !!!

I got to see The Pope there.

 

[sangha]

You are so full of Bullshit Maggie, you don't know up from down, left from right. You should consider control over your own resources, before trying to play with what is not rightly yours. You are confusing Progressive Republicanism and Progressive Liberalism with Conservatism. The difference between when I give and you give is that when I give, it is from my own wallet, or resources, or sweat.
What Right's have we lost to Tyranny? Enumerated Powers, 3 Equal Branches of Government, The Commerce Clause, the General Welfare Clause. We live in a land and time of Regulation's, Fine's, Fee's Taxes, and Penalties, choking us to death, mostly rooted in imagined powers. The Bureaucracy has long abandoned reason. Justify the Hypocrisy all you want. It's Bullshit, just like you. Before today, when was the last time we even communicated? How often. Yep.

What nonsense!! This wingnut thinks we don't have 3 co-equal branches of govt and she thinks The Commerce clause, the general welfare clause are "rights"

Wingnuts think the constitution prohibits regulations, fines, fees, taxes and penalties. The wingnuts don't believe in the policies practiced by our Founding Fathers, and the have the nerve to call themselves "conservative"

This wingnut doesn't even know what a right is. She thinks the govt has rights

You are a Left wingnut, Sangha. The Court has elevated Itself above the rest. Jefferson's term was Oligarchy. Part of The Original Role was to Interpret Original Meaning, not Construction, not Rulings based on imagination. A line was crossed. You presume allot, it translates to babbling. I think the mistranslation of enumerated powers, the Commerce Clause, and the General Welfare Clause, stole Rights and Liberties. Excess and abuse steals Liberty. When the vehicle used to maintain order, looses focus, and the consent of the governed, there is a problem with the limits it imposes. I know this is hard for you, but if you try real hard you can do it.
I hate to shock you, but I am not Female, and I am not Gay or Bi. You can't have me. Live with it.

More wingnut nonsense. None of the things you mention are rights, which are the foundation of freedom.

And in wingnut world, Marbury v Madison was a wrestling match

 

[sangha]

Did your Mommy ever tell you that if you did it too much you would go blind? Did you go blind?

How many people do you know that are excommunicated? Including Pedophile Priests? Uh-huh.

There are areas within Church Doctrine where I find total Harmony and Communion, there are areas that I do not. If it is a matter of Conscience or even Interpretation of Scripture, It's an internal decision, no hard feelings, no bitterness, I will not support Man of Government in matters I perceive contrary to Conscience. I truly believe that to be an Unalienable Right, and I support the premise even when we are on opposing sides. It is more important to me that you side with your own conscience, than that you agree with me.

Let me ask you this seriously. If you had to choose between Salvation, and the group, What would you choose? Would you even hesitate? That is Conscience. Locke, Madison nailed it.

Religious Freedom Page: Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, James Madison (1785)

Christians, particularly catholics, LOVE pedophilia, so I don't know why you would expect them to excommunicate anyone for that

However. the Church has excommunicated scores of people for heresy

Back to scorch and burn? What can I say? You are a Vindictive Disingenuous Fuck? ... But you already know that.

Now the wingnut is going to deny the long tradition of christian pedophilia.