Jesus and guns

[AllieBaba]

And Jesus was right. Peter was crucified upside down. I really doubt he went to hell, however, since Jesus said upon the rock of Peter he built his church.

 

[AllieBaba]

The entire premise of this thread is retarded. Clearly not one single brand of Christianity fully embraces Jesus' teachings about turning the other cheek. Not one. So if Jesus' opinions about self-defense in general are widely disregarded, why would anyone care what he would have to say about the particulars, with respect to weaponry?

Wrong. Quakers, Mennonites, and various and assorted other Christian entities are pacificsts.

 

[necritan]

I'll admit, I've no problem with people owning guns. In fact I think that the slim chance we could rise up against a bad government justifies it easily.

But I often wonder, how do Christians reconcile their belief in people owning guns with the teachings of Jesus?

Have you often also wondered if Jesus was okay with people owning knives forks or spoons. For that matter you can't own stones either. And and and... you can't own a stick.

Oh yeah that's right, Jesus "broke" the bread for passover so yeah he probalby didn't own a bread knife.

You people.

Let's see, back in Jesus time they didn't have guns but they did have swords.

Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus. Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?
-John 18:10-11

Dude this was at the end of Jesus' life. By that time you would have thought that Jesus would have known that Peter owned a sword. Swords are kinda hard to hide you know.

Notice Jesus didn't ask Peter to get rid of his sword either but rather to put it back into the sheath.

you missed the part in Matthew's scripture on this AND what Jesus said IN FULL to him...I GUESS this was by accident???

NIV© Matthew 26 describing the same incident with his disciple drawing his sword...."Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

WHY did Jesus tell him this thelight?

Ummmm....why does it matter..??? It certainly isnt an admonishment of use of weaponry.

Furthermore.....since when have any of you left-wing anti-gun pussies ever taken the words of Jesus into consideration in all other walks of your life..??? Or do you just like to throw around the "J" word to further your own agendas.


Gun ownership equals a level of freedom from tyranny......does Jesus value tyranny and rule over fellow man..??? Thats the real question....

 

[Care4all]

Have you often also wondered if Jesus was okay with people owning knives forks or spoons. For that matter you can't own stones either. And and and... you can't own a stick.

Oh yeah that's right, Jesus "broke" the bread for passover so yeah he probalby didn't own a bread knife.

You people.

Let's see, back in Jesus time they didn't have guns but they did have swords.

Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus. Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?
-John 18:10-11

Dude this was at the end of Jesus' life. By that time you would have thought that Jesus would have known that Peter owned a sword. Swords are kinda hard to hide you know.

Notice Jesus didn't ask Peter to get rid of his sword either but rather to put it back into the sheath.

you missed the part in Matthew's scripture on this AND what Jesus said IN FULL to him...I GUESS this was by accident???

NIV© Matthew 26 describing the same incident with his disciple drawing his sword...."Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

WHY did Jesus tell him this thelight?

Ummmm....why does it matter..??? It certainly isnt an admonishment of use of weaponry.

Furthermore.....since when have any of you left-wing anti-gun pussies ever taken the words of Jesus into consideration in all other walks of your life..??? Or do you just like to throw around the "J" word to further your own agendas.


Gun ownership equals a level of freedom from tyranny......does Jesus value tyranny and rule over fellow man..??? Thats the real question....

Since I was a Child?????????????????????

the question i have is: HAVE YOU EVER taken Jesus's word in to consideration....?

lovely Christian attitude and condemnation of someone you are obviously CLUELESS on....sheesh....Jesus would be proud of you! NOT!!!!

care

 

[necritan]

you missed the part in Matthew's scripture on this AND what Jesus said IN FULL to him...I GUESS this was by accident???

NIV© Matthew 26 describing the same incident with his disciple drawing his sword...."Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

WHY did Jesus tell him this thelight?

Ummmm....why does it matter..??? It certainly isnt an admonishment of use of weaponry.

Furthermore.....since when have any of you left-wing anti-gun pussies ever taken the words of Jesus into consideration in all other walks of your life..??? Or do you just like to throw around the "J" word to further your own agendas.


Gun ownership equals a level of freedom from tyranny......does Jesus value tyranny and rule over fellow man..??? Thats the real question....

Since I was a Child?????????????????????

the question i have is: HAVE YOU EVER taken Jesus's word in to consideration....?

lovely Christian attitude and condemnation of someone you are obviously CLUELESS on....sheesh....Jesus would be proud of you! NOT!!!!

care

I asked you a question....does Jesus value tyranny and rule over fellow man..???

 

[Valerie]

The entire premise of this thread is retarded. Clearly not one single brand of Christianity fully embraces Jesus' teachings about turning the other cheek. Not one. So if Jesus' opinions about self-defense in general are widely disregarded, why would anyone care what he would have to say about the particulars, with respect to weaponry?

Fully embracing the teachings about turning the other cheek does not have to include being passive in the face of death. Turning the cheek is about forgiveness.

 

[necritan]

The entire premise of this thread is retarded. Clearly not one single brand of Christianity fully embraces Jesus' teachings about turning the other cheek. Not one. So if Jesus' opinions about self-defense in general are widely disregarded, why would anyone care what he would have to say about the particulars, with respect to weaponry?

Fully embracing the teachings about turning the other cheek does not have to include being passive in the face of death. Turning the cheek is about forgiveness.

Exactly......Jesus isnt advocating being a big puss all the time.

 

[Valerie]

The entire premise of this thread is retarded.


why would anyone care what he [Jesus] would have to say about the particulars, with respect to weaponry?

Your question at the end IS the premise of this thread, no?

I'll admit, I've no problem with people owning guns.


But I often wonder, how do Christians reconcile their belief in people owning guns with the teachings of Jesus?

Would Jesus rather you killed to protect an innocent or keep you and the one you are protecting innocent?



How can you be "innocent" if you've killed?

 

[Care4all]

Ummmm....why does it matter..??? It certainly isnt an admonishment of use of weaponry.

Furthermore.....since when have any of you left-wing anti-gun pussies ever taken the words of Jesus into consideration in all other walks of your life..??? Or do you just like to throw around the "J" word to further your own agendas.


Gun ownership equals a level of freedom from tyranny......does Jesus value tyranny and rule over fellow man..??? Thats the real question....

Since I was a Child?????????????????????

the question i have is: HAVE YOU EVER taken Jesus's word in to consideration....?

lovely Christian attitude and condemnation of someone you are obviously CLUELESS on....sheesh....Jesus would be proud of you! NOT!!!!

care

I asked you a question....does Jesus value tyranny and rule over fellow man..???

let me ask you to clarify this first.... was the Romans conquering and rule over the Jews at the time of Christ tyrannical?

 

[necritan]

Since I was a Child?????????????????????

the question i have is: HAVE YOU EVER taken Jesus's word in to consideration....?

lovely Christian attitude and condemnation of someone you are obviously CLUELESS on....sheesh....Jesus would be proud of you! NOT!!!!

care

I asked you a question....does Jesus value tyranny and rule over fellow man..???

let me ask you to clarify this first.... was the Romans conquering and rule over the Jews at the time of Christ tyrannical?

No.....

 

[Modbert]

I asked you a question....does Jesus value tyranny and rule over fellow man..???

Yes, Yes he does.

Luke 12:47 That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows.

Matthew 10:24-25: 24"A student is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. 25It is enough for the student to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master. If the head of the house has been called Beelzebub,[a] how much more the members of his household!

Jesus never condemned slavery. Peter and Paul supported it. Paul also happened to be really the second founder of Christianity.

 

[Ravi]

The entire premise of this thread is retarded. Clearly not one single brand of Christianity fully embraces Jesus' teachings about turning the other cheek. Not one. So if Jesus' opinions about self-defense in general are widely disregarded, why would anyone care what he would have to say about the particulars, with respect to weaponry?

You've never heard of the Amish?

 

[necritan]

I asked you a question....does Jesus value tyranny and rule over fellow man..???

Yes, Yes he does.

Luke 12:47 That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows.

Matthew 10:24-25: 24"A student is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. 25It is enough for the student to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master. If the head of the house has been called Beelzebub,[a] how much more the members of his household!

Jesus never condemned slavery. Peter and Paul supported it. Paul also happened to be really the second founder of Christianity.

I dont see this at all to be condoning slavery or tyranny.....but rather illustrating the typical relationship of slave to master.

Christ illustrated and spoke of many things....

 

[AllieBaba]

Slaves during biblical times were not the same as the slaves of America. They had rights, they were paid, they could own property, and they could only be enslaved for a certain period of time. Their children were not slaves, they were free.

So when the bible refers to slaves, as in "slaves obey your master" they are actually referring to the working class, and "masters" are employers.

We're supposed to be good citizens, obey the law of the land so long as it does not require us to act contrary to the word of God.

 

[Care4all]

I asked you a question....does Jesus value tyranny and rule over fellow man..???

let me ask you to clarify this first.... was the Romans conquering and rule over the Jews at the time of Christ tyrannical?

No.....

Then what is tyranny....if not that?

 

[Ravi]

Everything we do is presumably judged...so how does that mean that Jesus is okay with people owning guns.

Did you read the rest of my posts or just that one? I'd rather not repeat myself.

>>>

Jesus did NOT defend himself from being killed, but the lesson was supposed to be his sacrifice for the rest of us who are only human and will need to be forgiven for our sins including defending ourselves if we need to.

You'd rather not repeat yourself, but thanks for doing it anyway.

Your position is that guns are okay as long as they are not used to kill, from the viewpoint of Jesus?

 

[necritan]

let me ask you to clarify this first.... was the Romans conquering and rule over the Jews at the time of Christ tyrannical?

No.....

Then what is tyranny....if not that?

Tyranny is oppressive power brought on by ones government.......Rome was not Israel's government. Israel had their own government at the time.....and it was argueably....tyranical.


So.....When the people of Israel cried out to the Lord..and to Samuel for a "King"....is it no suprise that the Lord was miffed....and thereby "Cursed" them with a King...??? It was quite clear in the old Testament atleast that the "Lord" appreciated self-rule....and was appauled by the idea of Human Rule.

So....do you think it is Christ's wish that we be dominated by man???? And..if not...in this day and age...how does one remain free without the ability to defend ones freedoms..???

 

[Care4all]

No.....

Then what is tyranny....if not that?

Tyranny is oppressive power brought on by ones government.......Rome was not Israel's government. Israel had their own government at the time.....and it was argueably....tyranical.


So.....When the people of Israel cried out to the Lord..and to Samuel for a "King"....is it no suprise that the Lord was miffed....and thereby "Cursed" them with a King...??? It was quite clear in the old Testament atleast that the "Lord" appreciated self-rule....and was appauled by the idea of Human Rule.

So....do you think it is Christ's wish that we be dominated by man???? And..if not...in this day and age...how does one remain free without the ability to defend ones freedoms..???

the Romans GOVERNED Palestine and Jerusalem....it was tyranny for the Jews...

if the Romans did not govern them and collected taxes from them, there would have been no need for the high priest to turn Jesus over to Pontius Pilot if the Jews solely governed themselves...so you are wrong....yes the Romans let them practice their religious hierarchy...but the Roman brought Solomon's temple to the ground, not one stone left unturned.,,just a few decades after His death...

Those jews, trying to incite a revolution or insurrection against the Roman governing rule were CONTINUALLY SHOT DOWN by Christ for this...

and one does not always remain free as a Christian....none of the apostles fought with their sword once they were sent out to preach the Gospel, NONE! They were all held captive and then martyred.... I am certain the apostles would have fought by the sword to stay ''free'' as you state, IF THIS IS WHAT CHRIST ACTUALLY TAUGHT....but guess what? THAT'S not what he told them to do and not what he taught.

care

 

[Ravi]

Good points, Care. That's what I was taught as well.

You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

IIRC, that is one of the passages the Amish base their pacifism on.

 

[necritan]

Then what is tyranny....if not that?

Tyranny is oppressive power brought on by ones government.......Rome was not Israel's government. Israel had their own government at the time.....and it was argueably....tyranical.


So.....When the people of Israel cried out to the Lord..and to Samuel for a "King"....is it no suprise that the Lord was miffed....and thereby "Cursed" them with a King...??? It was quite clear in the old Testament atleast that the "Lord" appreciated self-rule....and was appauled by the idea of Human Rule.

So....do you think it is Christ's wish that we be dominated by man???? And..if not...in this day and age...how does one remain free without the ability to defend ones freedoms..???

the Romans GOVERNED Palestine and Jerusalem....it was tyranny for the Jews...

if the Romans did not govern them and collected taxes from them, there would have been no need for the high priest to turn Jesus over to Pontius Pilot if the Jews solely governed themselves...so you are wrong....yes the Romans let them practice their religious hierarchy...but the Roman brought Solomon's temple to the ground, not one stone left unturned.,,just a few decades after His death...

Those jews, trying to incite a revolution or insurrection against the Roman governing rule were CONTINUALLY SHOT DOWN by Christ for this...

and one does not always remain free as a Christian....none of the apostles fought with their sword once they were sent out to preach the Gospel, NONE! They were all held captive and then martyred.... I am certain the apostles would have fought by the sword to stay ''free'' as you state, IF THIS IS WHAT CHRIST ACTUALLY TAUGHT....but guess what? THAT'S not what he told them to do and not what he taught.

care

They turned it over to Pilate because they were pushing for execution....which was something they were forbidden from performing on their own.

Yes....they were governed by the Romans...as were many nations at the time....but it was not their government.....so therefore not a tyranny in the true sense of the word. King Herod was there douche bag king.

Also...from your assertions...I can only surmise that you believe Christ would be against any form of Military whatsoever as well.....right..????

And where in Christ's teachings does it say NOT to defend yourself against oppression or strive for freedom..????

Just because it isnt mentioned doesnt make it something he did not believe. Christ didnt mention useage of the internet either....yet we seem to all agree its probably ok.


Read about Gideon in the Bible.........