Jason Kidd Retire: Where does he rank All-Time?

[Billo_Really]

1. Stockton
2. Magic
3. Parker
4. Rondo
5. Kidd
6. Robertson
7. Cousy
8. Archibald
9. KJ
10. Price

Honorable Mention: Payton, Billups, Paul, DJ, Mark Jackson, Bibby, White Chocolate, Rose

You can't be serious! Magic is the indisputable #1. The man was awesome and could play every position. He is #2-4 overall ever. Rondo and Parker are not even 3rd and 4th best now-a-days. The Big O was 6'5 and the only person in history to average a triple double. White Chocolate was flash but no fare! Where is Isiah Thomas?

Where's Isiah? Where's Pistol Pete? Where's Gus Williams?

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

1. Stockton
2. Magic
3. Parker
4. Rondo
5. Kidd
6. Robertson
7. Cousy
8. Archibald
9. KJ
10. Price

Honorable Mention: Payton, Billups, Paul, DJ, Mark Jackson, Bibby, White Chocolate, Rose

You can't be serious! Magic is the indisputable #1. The man was awesome and could play every position. He is #2-4 overall ever. Rondo and Parker are not even 3rd and 4th best now-a-days. The Big O was 6'5 and the only person in history to average a triple double. White Chocolate was flash but no fare! Where is Isiah Thomas?

Where's Isiah? Where's Pistol Pete? Where's Gus Williams?

I considered Pistol more SG. But if he played more PG in his day then he would probably be right up there with Stockton and Magic.

Thomas was an oversight. He would be worthy to be on the list.

Your infatuation with Gus Williams is funny.

 

[Billo_Really]

Your infatuation with Gus Williams is funny.

You ever seen him play?

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Your infatuation with Gus Williams is funny.

You ever seen him play?

Nope.

 

[Billo_Really]

Your infatuation with Gus Williams is funny.

You ever seen him play?

Nope.

Then shut-up!

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

You ever seen him play?

Nope.

Then shut-up!

Nah. You're the only one I ever heard drone on about him (and he didn't play much before my time). I checked his stats, nothing special either. Plenty of PGs have done what he's done.

 

[Billo_Really]

Nah. You're the only one I ever heard drone on about him (and he didn't play much before my time). I checked his stats, nothing special either. Plenty of PGs have done what he's done.

He played on one of the best backcourts in history and was completely unstoppable in crunch time.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Nah. You're the only one I ever heard drone on about him (and he didn't play much before my time). I checked his stats, nothing special either. Plenty of PGs have done what he's done.

He played on one of the best backcourts in history and was completely unstoppable in crunch time.

I'm sure he was good in his time. But he is not a top ten PG of all-time.

 

[JoeBlam]

We watched Jason Kidd here in Phoenix long enough....Colangelo watched the last game of his last season here and decided the Suns were BORING with Kidd at the PG. He was a terrible shooter but a terrific ball-handler and rebounder for a 6'4" guard. Is he HOF worthy? I have no idea but he isn't anywhere near my top........40 point guards.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

We watched Jason Kidd here in Phoenix long enough....Colangelo watched the last game of his last season here and decided the Suns were BORING with Kidd at the PG. He was a terrible shooter but a terrific ball-handler and rebounder for a 6'4" guard. Is he HOF worthy? I have no idea but he isn't anywhere near my top........40 point guards.

Suns were rebuilding and they rightfully didn't want to pay him b/c he was a pass first PG and a run and gun player and that did not suit their personnel.

Kidd was never a scorer (though he did learn to knock down 3's). However, he is one of the best passers and in his prime, one of the best players ever at pushing the tempo of a game. My C's would have been in the 02 Finals were it not for that. He was good enough to be the starting PG for a championship team when he was past his prime too.

I think your points are valid. He's a sub-par shooter. So is Rondo and yet he is arguably the best PG in the league. PG is a position in which a player doesn't have to be a good shooter to make a great impact. In fact, Magic wasn't a good shooter beyond 17 feet til later in his career.

 

[Billo_Really]

I'm sure he was good in his time. But he is not a top ten PG of all-time.

If you ever saw him play, you wouldn't be saying that.

He was the Tony Parker of his day.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

I'm sure he was good in his time. But he is not a top ten PG of all-time.

If you ever saw him play, you wouldn't be saying that.

He was the Tony Parker of his day.

No he's not. I did go watch some clips on YT. Sorry brah. You have a man crush. That's all.

 

[Billo_Really]

No he's not. I did go watch some clips on YT. Sorry brah. You have a man crush. That's all.

This ain't Tony Parker?


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxUx01TrtfM]Gus Williams 28 points vs. Lakers 1980 WCF Game 1 - YouTube[/ame]


You're fuckin' nuts!



As far as a man crush, don't forget, I'm a Laker fan! I hated Gus Williams!

 

[EPark]

He is top 10 PG of all-time, but not overall.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

No he's not. I did go watch some clips on YT. Sorry brah. You have a man crush. That's all.

This ain't Tony Parker?


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxUx01TrtfM]Gus Williams 28 points vs. Lakers 1980 WCF Game 1 - YouTube[/ame]


You're fuckin' nuts!



As far as a man crush, don't forget, I'm a Laker fan! I hated Gus Williams!

Clearly, the heart grows fonder in his absence. And remind me what Gus Williams team beat an 80's Lakers team in a playoff series? Stop pretending there ever was any real animosity.

If you want me to throw you a bone; Gus Williams seems worthy of being int the top 50. But putting him in the top 10? Place your top ten. Let's see who you're saying he is better than.

 

[Billo_Really]

Clearly, the heart grows fonder in his absence. And remind me what Gus Williams team beat an 80's Lakers team in a playoff series? Stop pretending there ever was any real animosity.

They were the defending NBA champions, Magic's rookie year.

They appeared in the finals two years in a row.

The only reason I remember him, is because we never could seem to stop him.

If you want me to throw you a bone; Gus Williams seems worthy of being int the top 50. But putting him in the top 10? Place your top ten. Let's see who you're saying he is better than.

Top ten guards?

1. Magic
2. Oscar Robertson
3. Walt Frazier
4. Earl Monroe
5. Pete Maravich
6. Lenny Wilkins
7. Calvin Murphy
8. John Stockton
9. Hal Greer
10. Gail Goodrich

And me.

I was very good at park ball.

 

[Billo_Really]

He is top 10 PG of all-time, but not overall.

Not top 10.

But he might be the Nets new coach.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Clearly, the heart grows fonder in his absence. And remind me what Gus Williams team beat an 80's Lakers team in a playoff series? Stop pretending there ever was any real animosity.

They were the defending NBA champions, Magic's rookie year.

They appeared in the finals two years in a row.

The only reason I remember him, is because we never could seem to stop him.

If you want me to throw you a bone; Gus Williams seems worthy of being int the top 50. But putting him in the top 10? Place your top ten. Let's see who you're saying he is better than.

Top ten guards?

1. Magic
2. Oscar Robertson
3. Walt Frazier
4. Earl Monroe
5. Pete Maravich
6. Lenny Wilkins
7. Calvin Murphy
8. John Stockton
9. Hal Greer
10. Gail Goodrich

And me.

I was very good at park ball.

You seem to think that the old-timers are overwhelmingly better than the guards from the last 20 years.

Lenny Wilkens? Possibly the most over-rated player in the history of the NBA. Ironically, he's possibly the most over-rated coach too. He doesn't belong in the top 100 guards of all-time; let alone at the six spot. And it was a joke that they made him among the top 50 NBA greatest players. That was politics.

Guys like Monroe, Frazier, Murphy, Goodrich, Greer. Yea they belong on the list of top 100 guards. But top ten? I just don't see it that way. They're the Dwyane Wades of their day. Very painted up, but not that great, really. Putting those guys on a top ten list would be like putting Dennis Johnson or Danny Ainge on the top ten list.

And you're just saying guards (not pgs). So - I'm curious. You put those guys ahead of Jordan and Bryant, etc.

 

[Billo_Really]

You seem to think that the old-timers are overwhelmingly better than the guards from the last 20 years.

Lenny Wilkens? Possibly the most over-rated player in the history of the NBA. Ironically, he's possibly the most over-rated coach too. He doesn't belong in the top 100 guards of all-time; let alone at the six spot. And it was a joke that they made him among the top 50 NBA greatest players. That was politics.

Guys like Monroe, Frazier, Murphy, Goodrich, Greer. Yea they belong on the list of top 100 guards. But top ten? I just don't see it that way. They're the Dwyane Wades of their day. Very painted up, but not that great, really. Putting those guys on a top ten list would be like putting Dennis Johnson or Danny Ainge on the top ten list.

And you're just saying guards (not pgs). So - I'm curious. You put those guys ahead of Jordan and Bryant, etc.

You seem to think athleticism automatically makes you a better guard. Or better player? The best player on the planet was a complete joke in the game last night. He wasn't worth Bill Laimbeer's jock strap last night.

I remember those guys, because I watched them play a lot. I watch the players of today a lot to. I've been a gym rat all my life. The league is far more deluted now, than it was back then. There are a lot of guys playing in the NBA today, that would never make the first cut back then.

You mock Frazier? He would shut Jordan down, much like Cooper did. Frazier was the all NBA first team on offense and defense every year he was in the league. He's in the top 5 defensive guards of all time. Along with West, Michael Cooper, Jerry Sloan, Dennis Johnson and Bryant. All Jordan did defensively, was cheat on the passing lanes. He couldn't shut down a top shooting guard like Coop or DJ could. He never guarded Magic. Well, not for long. If he did, Magic would eat his lunch.

There is no one in the NBA today that could stop Earl the Pearl. Lew Alcindor couldn't stop Earl the Pearl in his 2nd year in the league. He stopped everyone else on the Bullets team, but not him! Monroe had too much of that "now you see it, now you don't" stuff, that made Dr. J great. "The ball's right here, oh no, now it's over hear!" Guys would look like they're having a seizure trying to block their shots. Swinging their arms at nothing but air.

I included Wilkins out of respect for setting the record Stockton and Magic broke. Anyone getting that many assists on consistantly suck-ass teams he had, is not over-rated.

Dwayne Wade is a has-been. The Spurs are not even guarding him.

 

[Billo_Really]

Top guards of all time:

1. Magic
2. Oscar
3. West
4. Frazier
5. Monroe
6. Bryant
7. Durant
8. Hal Greer
9. Pete Maravich
10. Dave Bing

Yeah, I know who's missing.

He doesn't even make my top ten players of all time.