Jaffa, never a city of Palestine

[P F Tinmore]

In the early 1800's zero Palestinians live in Jaffa.

Arabs are clear in their ancestry, Arabia. Next I will have to take the name of an Arab in Jaffa and show the ancestry that leads to Arabia, not Jaffa. Thing about Arabs, they are proud of this fact.

That would be interesting. Perhaps you could also explain the relevance.

The relevance is simple, the controversy is that Jews stole Palestinian land, today that is defined as Sunni-Arab-Palestinians, Arabs are not Palestinians, they are Arabs, were called Arabs historically, and identified themselves as Arabs, not Palestinians.

Further you mention Jaffa as being cleansed of "Palestinians" by Jews, I was more specific and gave a few facts such as it was the Irgun that took Jaffa. I have just shown how Jaffa was not a "Palestinian" city. Historically Jaffa always considered a Jewish city.

When was it that the Jews were the only people living in Jaffa?

 

[mdn2000]

That would be interesting. Perhaps you could also explain the relevance.

The relevance is simple, the controversy is that Jews stole Palestinian land, today that is defined as Sunni-Arab-Palestinians, Arabs are not Palestinians, they are Arabs, were called Arabs historically, and identified themselves as Arabs, not Palestinians.

Further you mention Jaffa as being cleansed of "Palestinians" by Jews, I was more specific and gave a few facts such as it was the Irgun that took Jaffa. I have just shown how Jaffa was not a "Palestinian" city. Historically Jaffa always considered a Jewish city.

When was it that the Jews were the only people living in Jaffa?

I did not imply only Jews lived in Jaffa but I think it would be safe to say, 500 BC, give or take.

 

[georgephillip]

Propaganda is a very effective tool, its simple to recognize and even simpler to prove as a lie.

Take Jaffa, I should of been all over this but in responding to the hundred of false premises, the thousands of lies, the thousands of insults, the thousands of racial slurs, its easy to forget the simple truth.

I found this little article that reminded my of a simple fact, the article says it best.

There's justice, and then there's propaganda - The Globe and Mail

There is a difference between most people and professional propagandists. The latter serve their cause by repeating a false statement of “fact” so often and with such emphasis that decent people think there must at least be a modicum of truth to it.

This age-old but effective propaganda technique has, as of late, given rise to such blatant falsehoods as “Israeli apartheid,” or, to quote Naomi Klein's open letter to TIFF last week, “The city of Jaffa [was] Palestine's main cultural hub until 1948.” This seemingly factual statement fails to mention the detail that there was no such thing as Palestine prior to 1948. The city of Tel Aviv was founded in 1909 in what was then a Turkish colony, later a British colony and once upon a time a Roman colony, consisting of lands from which the indigenous Jewish population had been forcefully – though never fully – evicted.

The headline of last week's open letter, protesting the focus on films by Tel Aviv filmmakers, was “No celebration of occupation,” which incorrectly implies that Tel Aviv is occupied territory. We are not talking about the West Bank or the Golan Heights here, but the biggest population centre in the heart of Israel, where the first neighbourhood was built in 1887. If that is disputed territory, then Ms. Klein and her armchair storm troopers are clamouring for nothing short of the annihilation of the Jewish state. They are effectively Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's local fifth column.

Whose ancestors built Jaffa?

"Each year, the U.S. Army War College in Carlysle Barracks, Pennsylvania, invites foreign military personnel to partake in war games scenarios and seek solutions to problems and potential problems around the globe.

Saudi Arabia’s Lieutenant Colonel Mohammed F. Abo-Sak participated in the USAWC Class of 1997 where he developed a strategy research project he entitled 'US Involvement in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Solution or Complication?'...

"Palestinians have continuously resided in Palestine since four thousand years before Christ, Abo-Sak pointed out.

"Their ancestors built the cities of Jerusalem, Nablus, Jericho, Beisan, Acca and Jaffa.

"The Hebrews arrived in the land between 1400-1200 B.C., and only maintained control over it during the lifetimes of King David and his son King Solomon – a period of about 80 years.

"The land then came under Greek and Roman rule, and was then conquered by Islam in the year 637 A.D. under the second Caliph, Omar.

"By that time, the Jews had already left Jerusalem, and Christianity was the dominant religion.

"The Caliph granted full security to all Christians, including personal safety, and protection of property, religion and churches.

"The Muslims declared Jerusalem the capital of Palestine, and the city remained under Islamic rule until the end of the Ottoman Empire in 1918, except for a brief time of Christian rule under the Crusaders."

US Involvement in...

 

[mdn2000]

Propaganda is a very effective tool, its simple to recognize and even simpler to prove as a lie.

Take Jaffa, I should of been all over this but in responding to the hundred of false premises, the thousands of lies, the thousands of insults, the thousands of racial slurs, its easy to forget the simple truth.

I found this little article that reminded my of a simple fact, the article says it best.

There's justice, and then there's propaganda - The Globe and Mail

There is a difference between most people and professional propagandists. The latter serve their cause by repeating a false statement of “fact” so often and with such emphasis that decent people think there must at least be a modicum of truth to it.

This age-old but effective propaganda technique has, as of late, given rise to such blatant falsehoods as “Israeli apartheid,” or, to quote Naomi Klein's open letter to TIFF last week, “The city of Jaffa [was] Palestine's main cultural hub until 1948.” This seemingly factual statement fails to mention the detail that there was no such thing as Palestine prior to 1948. The city of Tel Aviv was founded in 1909 in what was then a Turkish colony, later a British colony and once upon a time a Roman colony, consisting of lands from which the indigenous Jewish population had been forcefully – though never fully – evicted.

The headline of last week's open letter, protesting the focus on films by Tel Aviv filmmakers, was “No celebration of occupation,” which incorrectly implies that Tel Aviv is occupied territory. We are not talking about the West Bank or the Golan Heights here, but the biggest population centre in the heart of Israel, where the first neighbourhood was built in 1887. If that is disputed territory, then Ms. Klein and her armchair storm troopers are clamouring for nothing short of the annihilation of the Jewish state. They are effectively Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's local fifth column.

Whose ancestors built Jaffa?

"Each year, the U.S. Army War College in Carlysle Barracks, Pennsylvania, invites foreign military personnel to partake in war games scenarios and seek solutions to problems and potential problems around the globe.

Saudi Arabia’s Lieutenant Colonel Mohammed F. Abo-Sak participated in the USAWC Class of 1997 where he developed a strategy research project he entitled 'US Involvement in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Solution or Complication?'...

"Palestinians have continuously resided in Palestine since four thousand years before Christ, Abo-Sak pointed out.

"Their ancestors built the cities of Jerusalem, Nablus, Jericho, Beisan, Acca and Jaffa.

"The Hebrews arrived in the land between 1400-1200 B.C., and only maintained control over it during the lifetimes of King David and his son King Solomon – a period of about 80 years.

"The land then came under Greek and Roman rule, and was then conquered by Islam in the year 637 A.D. under the second Caliph, Omar.

"By that time, the Jews had already left Jerusalem, and Christianity was the dominant religion.

"The Caliph granted full security to all Christians, including personal safety, and protection of property, religion and churches.

"The Muslims declared Jerusalem the capital of Palestine, and the city remained under Islamic rule until the end of the Ottoman Empire in 1918, except for a brief time of Christian rule under the Crusaders."

US Involvement in...

Hey dumbass, cant think on your own can you, all you got is links, a Wahhabi Sunni Moslem is your source, pretty lame.

 

[georgephillip]

What's the matter, Moses?

Not smart enough to refute a Wahhabi Sunni Moslem?

Way lame.

 

[mdn2000]

What's the matter, Moses?

Not smart enough to refute a Wahhabi Sunni Moslem?

Way lame.

I quoted Napolean Bonparte, sufficient enough.

Further we are discussing Jaffa specifically in this thread, you provide no historical facts on Jaffa, nor a source hence your post is worthless.

I attached a photo of over a 1000 books I own, over 100 pertain to Palestine. What are you using, google? Wikipedia?

 

[mdn2000]

"Palestinians have continuously resided in Palestine since four thousand years before Christ, Abo-Sak pointed out

I decided to have fun with your gross error. I will use books, not google or wiki. You can use sandstones if you wish.

George is stating that it was Sunni-Arabs who Occuipied Palestine, not the Philistines. Correct me if I am wrong so that we can continue from what you found on Google. While I wait for your response it will take a bit of time for me to find my next response, open the book, type the relevant text, and quote here. Your turn George.

The Handbook of Palestine

1922

Meaning of the term 'Palestine"-The term 'Palestine originally denoted only the coast strip once ruled by the Philistines,

 

[Marc39]

"The Hebrews arrived in the land between ]1400-1200 B.C[/B]., and only maintained control over it during the lifetimes of King David and his son King Solomon – a period of about 80 years[/].

Er, wrong.

The Davidic Monarchy lasted 400+ years, from the declaration of Jerusalem as the Jewish capital in 1000 BCE to the destruction of the First Temple by the Babylonians in 586 BCE.

No wonder you have no reputational points.

 

[hipeter924]

"The Hebrews arrived in the land between ]1400-1200 B.C[/b]., and only maintained control over it during the lifetimes of King David and his son King Solomon – a period of about 80 years[/].

Er, wrong.

The Davidic Monarchy lasted 400+ years, from the declaration of Jerusalem as the Jewish capital in 1000 BCE to the destruction of the First Temple by the Babylonians in 586 BCE.

No wonder you have no reputational points.

He's going for the world record, most negs ever in a forum.

 

[mdn2000]

"The Hebrews arrived in the land between ]1400-1200 B.C[/B]., and only maintained control over it during the lifetimes of King David and his son King Solomon – a period of about 80 years[/].

Er, wrong.

The Davidic Monarchy lasted 400+ years, from the declaration of Jerusalem as the Jewish capital in 1000 BCE to the destruction of the First Temple by the Babylonians in 586 BCE.

No wonder you have no reputational points.

Do me a favor and refresh my memory, I am working and have not the time to dig up my info. I know its in the thread somewhere as well.

Which year did the Philistines arrive and establish themselves in the Holy Land, as I understand it, this was a long before Mohamed's time.

George and the Wahhabi-Sunni-Moslem-Saudi Arabia’s Lieutenant Colonel Mohammed F. Abo-Sak are stating Sunni-Palestinians inhabited the tiny coastal strip of Philistine, I know this is completely false, as there was no such thing as Moslems during this period and further the split into Sunni and Shia had yet to develop further proving this as a gross error.

 

[Marc39]

"The Hebrews arrived in the land between ]1400-1200 B.C[/B]., and only maintained control over it during the lifetimes of King David and his son King Solomon – a period of about 80 years[/].

Er, wrong.

The Davidic Monarchy lasted 400+ years, from the declaration of Jerusalem as the Jewish capital in 1000 BCE to the destruction of the First Temple by the Babylonians in 586 BCE.

No wonder you have no reputational points.

Do me a favor and refresh my memory, I am working and have not the time to dig up my info. I know its in the thread somewhere as well.

Which year did the Philistines arrive and establish themselves in the Holy Land, as I understand it, this was a long before Mohamed's time.

George and the Wahhabi-Sunni-Moslem-Saudi Arabia’s Lieutenant Colonel Mohammed F. Abo-Sak are stating Sunni-Palestinians inhabited the tiny coastal strip of Philistine, I know this is completely false, as there was no such thing as Moslems during this period and further the split into Sunni and Shia had yet to develop further proving this as a gross error.

Philistines arrived in Canaan around 1250-1200 BCE, well before Muhammad who was born 570 CE.

The theory of so-called Palestinians having descended from the ancient Jebusites has no credibility. It was first proposed by Rashid Khalidi, a propagandist for Arafat in an attempt to delegitimze Jewish links with Canaan

The Jebusites were conquered by King David and eventually became extinct.

Jews lived in Canaan/Judah in at least 1200 BCE, verified by the archaeological record. Muslims first invaded Judah in 638 CE, 2000 years after Jews had been living there.

The consensus of opinion among historians, archaeologists and ethnologists is today's so-called Palestinians are descended from Arabs who originated from Arabia.

 

[georgephillip]

"Palestinians have continuously resided in Palestine since four thousand years before Christ, Abo-Sak pointed out

I decided to have fun with your gross error. I will use books, not google or wiki. You can use sandstones if you wish.

George is stating that it was Sunni-Arabs who Occuipied Palestine, not the Philistines. Correct me if I am wrong so that we can continue from what you found on Google. While I wait for your response it will take a bit of time for me to find my next response, open the book, type the relevant text, and quote here. Your turn George.

The Handbook of Palestine

1922

Meaning of the term 'Palestine"-The term 'Palestine originally denoted only the coast strip once ruled by the Philistines,

Israel Shahak on ancient Palestine.

"The phase of the ancient kingdoms of Israel and Judah, until the destruction the first Temple (587 BC) and the Babylonian exile. (Much of the Old Testament is concerned with this period, although most major books of the Old Testament, including the Pentateuch as we know it, were actually composed after that date.)

"Socially, these ancient Jewish kingdoms were quite similar to the neighboring kingdoms of Palestine and Syria; and – as a careful reading of the Prophets reveals – the similarity extended to the religious cults practiced by the great majority of the people.

"The ideas that were to become typical of later Judaism - including in particular ethnic segregationism and monotheistic exclusivism – were at this stage confined to small circles of priests and prophets, whose social influence depended on royal support.

Shahak - wiki

Feel free to post your wiki.

Or just take another picture of 1000 books.

 

[Marc39]

"Palestinians have continuously resided in Palestine since four thousand years before Christ, Abo-Sak pointed out

I decided to have fun with your gross error. I will use books, not google or wiki. You can use sandstones if you wish.

George is stating that it was Sunni-Arabs who Occuipied Palestine, not the Philistines. Correct me if I am wrong so that we can continue from what you found on Google. While I wait for your response it will take a bit of time for me to find my next response, open the book, type the relevant text, and quote here. Your turn George.

Meaning of the term 'Palestine"-The term 'Palestine originally denoted only the coast strip once ruled by the Philistines,

Israel Shahak on ancient Palestine.

"The phase of the ancient kingdoms of Israel and Judah, until the destruction the first Temple (587 BC) and the Babylonian exile. (Much of the Old Testament is concerned with this period, although most major books of the Old Testament, including the Pentateuch as we know it, were actually composed after that date.)

"Socially, these ancient Jewish kingdoms were quite similar to the neighboring kingdoms of Palestine and Syria; and – as a careful reading of the Prophets reveals – the similarity extended to the religious cults practiced by the great majority of the people.

"The ideas that were to become typical of later Judaism - including in particular ethnic segregationism and monotheistic exclusivism – were at this stage confined to small circles of priests and prophets, whose social influence depended on royal support.

Shahak - wiki

Feel free to post your wiki.

Or just take another picture of 1000 books.

Your source is BOGUS.

Palestine never existed in ancient history. Palestine is not referenced in the Hebrew Bible nor the Christian Bible nor the Quran nor any ancient historical documents or archaeological artifacts.

Palestine is derived from the Latin "Palaestina" which the Romans renamed Judah, the correct historical geographical name of the land. Even after the Romans renamed Judah "Palaestina," the land continued to be officially known as Judah

The Romans were European, not Semitic. The Romans used the Philistines as the basis for "Palaestina" and the Philistines were Aegean, not Semitic.

Your history lesson for the day.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

According to the official Israeli propaganda organ on You Tube disagrees.

Jaffa Palestine RR Station

Palestine was a province of the Ottoman empire. And the Byzantine Empire. And the Roman Empire.

As were Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. Are you going to argue there are no Syrians or Egyptians on the same basis.

Of course, when it was under Ottoman and muslim control, according to Mark twain it looked like this:

Of all the lands there are for dismal scenery, I think Palestine must be the prince. The hills are barren, they are dull of color, they are unpicturesque in shape. The valleys are unsightly deserts fringed with a feeble vegetation that has an expression about it of being sorrowful and despondent. The Dead Sea and the Sea of Galilee sleep in the midst of a vast stretch of hill and plain wherein the eye rests upon no pleasant tint, no striking object, no soft picture dreaming in a purple haze or mottled with the shadows of the clouds. Every outline is harsh, every feature is distinct, there is no perspective--distance works no enchantment here. It is a hopeless, dreary, heart-broken land.

Since Israel came along, there are now farms and forests and the land has been reborn.

 

[RadiomanATL]

It doesn't matter.

 

[Marc39]

According to the official Israeli propaganda organ on You Tube disagrees.

Jaffa Palestine RR Station

Palestine was a province of the Ottoman empire. And the Byzantine Empire. And the Roman Empire.

Palestine never existed, dumb dumb. During the Ottoman Empire, the land was southern Syria.

During the Byzantine Empire, the land was Judah, from which "Jewish" is derived.

Historian Bernard Lewis...

At first, the country of which Palestine was a part was felt to be Syria. In Ottoman times, that is, immediately before the coming of the British, Palestine had indeed been a part of a larger Syrian whole from which it was in no way distinguished whether by language, culture, education, administration, political allegiance, or any other significant respect. The dividing line between British-mandated Palestine and French-mandated Syria-Lebanon was an entirely new one and for the people of the area was wholly artificial. It was therefore natural that the nationalist leadership when it first appeared should think in Syrian terms and describe Palestine as southern Syria

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Middle-East-Bernard-Lewis/dp/0684832801/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1288196585&sr=8-5]Amazon.com: The Middle East (9780684832807): Bernard Lewis: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]

 

[Baruch Menachem]

In a rational universe, no it wouldn't. But people control the future with the past. If you can change the history, then you can redirect the future.

 

[Marc39]

In a rational universe, no it wouldn't. But people control the future with the past. If you can change the history, then you can redirect the future.

When might you become acquainted with history? In this lifetime?

 

[RadiomanATL]

In a rational universe, no it wouldn't. But people control the future with the past. If you can change the history, then you can redirect the future.

I find it odd that the same people who advocate "there never was ever any Palestine" don't advocate giving America back to the Native Americans.

I mean, if their basing their anti-Palestinian rhetoric on there never being such a nation before, then it would logically stand that they would be against the formation of America as well.

Personally, I don't think they've earned a completely independent nation. But the key word is earned. I'm not basing it on whose great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather squatted where first. All that matters is their actions. Not who did what where first going back to the frigging ancient Roman times.

 

[Marc39]

In a rational universe, no it wouldn't. But people control the future with the past. If you can change the history, then you can redirect the future.

I find it odd that the same people who advocate "there never was ever any Palestine" don't advocate giving America back to the Native Americans.

I mean, if their basing their anti-Palestinian rhetoric on there never being such a nation before, then it would logically stand that they would be against the formation of America as well.

Personally, I don't think they've earned a completely independent nation. But the key word is earned. I'm not basing it on whose great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather squatted where first. All that matters is their actions. Not who did what where first going back to the frigging ancient Roman times.

You know less than zero about the subject matter, so, why even waste bandwidth with your inane scribblings?

Palestine was a Roman invention. Unless you can prove Arabs are Italian, you're fucked