I've decided I'm staying home on election day.

[Jon]

Dude, have you ever been wrong, admitted it and meant it?

Of course. But someone doesn't change their religion on a dime and mean it. Sorry.

 

[elvis]

Dude, have you ever been wrong, admitted it and meant it?

Yeah, I could be convinced that either one of them has seen the light on this issue... but not easily.

-Joe

How much of what politicians say do you believe, generally?

 

[Jon]

This country needs to change course and the only one offering any real change is Obama....

Where's the change?

Obama wants to take our troops from Iraq and put them in Afghanistan. Nothing changes.

Obama wants to incorporate some form of universal healthcare, which will costs billions, and taxpayers will foot the bill while non taxpayers will see the benefits the most. Nothing changes.

Obama wants to spend $700 billion to bail out the people who didn't take responsibility for their own actions. Nothing changes.

Obama wants to keep Roe v. Wade intact. Nothing changes.

It sounds to me like you don't want change, you seem happy with the way things are.

 

[AVG-JOE]

How much of what politicians say do you believe, generally?

Depends on the politician... probably less than most humans I meet and more than all. And if I'm honest, on how much I want to believe.

I really, really want to find a political solution to Americas class war... if it spills over into anarchy - and it's close, if you believe Bush and Pelosi - we will loose infrastructure. I like infrastructure - it makes it easier to keep myself fed and comfy.

-Joe

 

[Gunny]

what is there to admit? the country is in financial trouble js.... if we were willing to foot the bill for a war of choice why the hell shouldn't we foot the bill to keep families and small businesses afloat? at least that's an investment in our future and we're guaranteed of getting most if not all the money back according to the bill I read.

Because the fact of the matter is, supporting this bill means you're willing to support keeping the lenders afloat, not small businesses and families.

If the government itself takes over the insolvent banks, assumes the loans and restructures them so small business and families can actually afford them, then the government can sell the loans to solvent lenders ... THEN you help the little guy.

As it is, this bill is just throwing good money after bad and doing nothing to address the actual problem of improper lending practices nor does it change a thing for people who lost or are losing their property at the individual level.

 

[user_name_guest]

The man went to Columbia and Harvard. Those arent the most inexpensive schools in the nation. Its not like the guy has made millions of dollars until the book.

athletics scholarship is quite popular in the black community. Having 24% of families of blacks in poverty, they have a better chance playing FB or BB than getting top education at an Ivy league school.

 

[elvis]

Where's the change?

Obama wants to take our troops from Iraq and put them in Afghanistan. Nothing changes.

Obama wants to incorporate some form of universal healthcare, which will costs billions, and taxpayers will foot the bill while non taxpayers will see the benefits the most. Nothing changes.

Obama wants to spend $700 billion to bail out the people who didn't take responsibility for their own actions. Nothing changes.

Obama wants to keep Roe v. Wade intact. Nothing changes.

It sounds to me like you don't want change, you seem happy with the way things are.

Obama will probably expand abortion, so that is change.

 

[user_name_guest]

Obama wants change, he needs to get Spitzer on the VP ticket. Forget the prostitution controversy. We have problems in Wall Street. We need a guy that can shake those institution up.

 

[Silence]

Obama wants to take our troops from Iraq and put them in Afghanistan. Nothing changes.

that's where the real war on terror should've been fought. IF bush hadn't taken his eye off the ball we's probably be out of this war and AQ would be defeated or at least substantially weaker...instead they are stronger than ever and probably more of a threat.

Obama wants to incorporate some form of universal healthcare, which will costs billions, and taxpayers will foot the bill while non taxpayers will see the benefits the most. Nothing changes.

We already offer a universal healthcare of sorts to the elderly, it's called Medicare..... And with the Baby Boomers reaching the age of 65 any day now most will be utilizing that system anyway. The plan Obama presents is healthcare for Children first and foremost and a plan to make healthcare more affordable for every american. Perhaps that doesn't matter to you but if people had decent healthcare to get check-ups and do well visits perhaps that would cut down on the catastrophic illness which drain so many families financially.

Obama wants to spend $700 billion to bail out the people who didn't take responsibility for their own actions. Nothing changes.

shit happens JS... we can't let our economy freeze up... do you want another depression? If they approve the bail out and then put the regulations back in place to prevent this from happening again then everything changes. There's a reason why banks hadn't failed since the 30s, it's called safeguards.

Obama wants to keep Roe v. Wade intact. Nothing changes.

see this is what I think it really comes down to for you... you strike me as a one issue voter. Obama doesn't have the power to overturn Roe v. Wade... he only has the power to appoint Justices to the Supreme court who would uphold that court's prior ruling.

It sounds to me like you don't want change, you seem happy with the way things are.

I already told you, my life probably doesn't change much either way.

you're the one staying home on November 4th remember! you're the one who seems to like things just as they are...

I want to be able to afford to send my daughter to college and she'll be college age right around the end of Obama's first term and she'll be 18 in time to vote for his re-election

 

[Jon]

We already offer a universal healthcare of sorts to the elderly, it's called Medicare..... And with the Baby Boomers reaching the age of 65 any day now most will be utilizing that system anyway. The plan Obama presents is healthcare for Children first and foremost and a plan to make healthcare more affordable for every american. Perhaps that doesn't matter to you but if people had decent healthcare to get check-ups and do well visits perhaps that would cut down on the catastrophic illness which drain so many families financially.

Every state offers health programs for children of parents who can't otherwise afford it. Anyone over 18 who wants health cares needs to pay for it themself. Period.

shit happens JS... we can't let our economy freeze up... do you want another depression? If they approve the bail out and then put the regulations back in place to prevent this from happening again then everything changes. There's a reason why banks hadn't failed since the 30s, it's called safeguards.

If you think the economy is headed for depression, you're walking a lonely road. The economy plummeted yesterday, and soared today. That's been the trend for weeks, BECAUSE of this bailout. The truth is we don't need the bailout, nor can we afford it. Your reasoning seems to be, "We wasted money in Iraq, may as well waste money to save our economy." The buck has to stop somewhere, and I vote for its stopping right here and right now.

see this is what I think it really comes down to for you... you strike me as a one issue voter. Obama doesn't have the power to overturn Roe v. Wade... he only has the power to appoint Justices to the Supreme court who would uphold that court's prior ruling.

I strike YOU as a one issue voter? That's no surprise. I post on every major issue in this campaign, and I point out my views on every single one of them.

I also understand that Obama can't overturn Roe v. Wade, and I also understand that he doesn't want to and won't. I want someone in office who will appoint justices who WILL overturn it because it's an unconstitutional ruling.

I already told you, my life probably doesn't change much either way.

you're the one staying home on November 4th remember! you're the one who seems to like things just as they are...

Was this meant to offend me? I've already stated my content with the status quo.

I want to be able to afford to send my daughter to college and she'll be college age right around the end of Obama's first term and she'll be 18 in time to vote for his re-election

And I'm sure you're already brainwashing her to vote for him, too, even though you have no idea what kind of president he'll be.

 

[Silence]

Because the fact of the matter is, supporting this bill means you're willing to support keeping the lenders afloat, not small businesses and families.

If the government itself takes over the insolvent banks, assumes the loans and restructures them so small business and families can actually afford them, then the government can sell the loans to solvent lenders ... THEN you help the little guy.

As it is, this bill is just throwing good money after bad and doing nothing to address the actual problem of improper lending practices nor does it change a thing for people who lost or are losing their property at the individual level.

I don't actually disagree with you on this but SOMETHING has to be done...every economist I've seen talk about this issue says that.

 

[Jon]

I don't actually disagree with you on this but SOMETHING has to be done...every economist I've seen talk about this issue says that.

Every economist you've seen on the news who is being paid for their appearance. Every economist I talk to who is just sharing their opinions for the sake of being heard say wait it out. Who's right? I guess we'll find out, one way or another, for better or worse.

 

[KittenKoder]

I don't actually disagree with you on this but SOMETHING has to be done...every economist I've seen talk about this issue says that.

The problem is that instead of listening the government and candidates for pres are just pointing fingers. Gunny's idea is better in my opinion on this.

 

[Silence]

Every economist you've seen on the news who is being paid for their appearance. Every economist I talk to who is just sharing their opinions for the sake of being heard say wait it out. Who's right? I guess we'll find out, one way or another, for better or worse.

and that 777 point drop on wall street? were they paid to make that happen too js?

I'm not so paranoid as to believe it's some massive government conspiracy trying to steal my hard earned money.

good Lord you all act like you're living in the novel 1984 to something... it's pathetic.

 

[Gunny]

I don't actually disagree with you on this but SOMETHING has to be done...every economist I've seen talk about this issue says that.

I agree. Something has to be done. That doesn't mean we have to do and accept anything to do something.

This bill is a political solution by politicians that amounts to nothing more than just another bandaid in a long series of bandaids that's been plastered over an ever-growing problem since the 70s. They want to sweep this under the rug by election, and bet both sides will claim victory.

These politicians don't want to put forward a REAL solution that actually addresses the problem from every avenue of approach because it isn't going to be popular with either side. We live in a nation that doesn't want to hear the truth if it's bad, and our politicians are more than happy to gloss it over for us so long as they come out looking good and reelectable.

We're going to pay for this. Bottom line. And at least part of the burden is ours to bear. People have been living beyond their means for too long and the bill has come due. Do we want another government administered bandaid, or an actual solution that solves the problem?

I don't believe the people in our society have the backbone anymore to stand up to the hardships of what it would take to solve the problem so they're willing to accept yet another bandaid.

The idea I presented in my last post is roughly what editec has been saying. The government absorbs the insolvent lenders/banks loans and lets them fail. They restructure the loans to help as many people as possible. As financial institutions get back on their feet, then can then buy the loans from the government.

Needless to say, banking corporations are going to suffer. So are the people so far in debt that restructuring their debt would be pointless. I for one don't feel much sympathy for bankers making $14m a year losing their jobs, nor people who purchase on credit so far above their heads they never had a chance anyway.

It's that, or this bailout that will benefit the lenders/financial insitutions the most. They're the ones who are half to blame for this damned mess to begin with. Why reward THEM?

 

[Jon]

and that 777 point drop on wall street? were they paid to make that happen too js?

I'm not so paranoid as to believe it's some massive government conspiracy trying to steal my hard earned money.

good Lord you all act like you're living in the novel 1984 to something... it's pathetic.

The 777 drop was the result of a boost from the previous days because everyone expected the bailout to pass. It didn't pass, the DOW dropped. Today, it's back up 485 points. Tomorrow, it'll drop again because the bailout will fail, again. Then Thursday it will be back up. It's the trend we've been seeing for WEEKS, but the average position remains mostly unchanged over the past month. Why can't you see that?

 

[KittenKoder]

Reply To Gunnys Post

Yep, prolonging the inevitable with more bandaids will only make the final outcome worse, get it over with so we can move on and get the debt our government accumulated paid off. Otherwise the next dozen generations will be paying for this mistake.

 

[WillowTree]

I decided to vote Absentee this time around js you can always do a write in thats what I am going to do.

not good, too much risk your vote will be misplaced.

 

[jschuck12001]

He had federal loans, which are capped. He can't have borrowed the full amount. In fact, I promise you I have more in student loans now than he had from his school, as the limits now are about twice what they were 20 years ago.

So it bothers you he just paid off his student loans, the guy could have paid them years ago if he went for the money. I dont get it Jsanders.

 

[Silence]

The 777 drop was the result of a boost from the previous days because everyone expected the bailout to pass. It didn't pass, the DOW dropped. Today, it's back up 485 points. Tomorrow, it'll drop again because the bailout will fail, again. Then Thursday it will be back up. It's the trend we've been seeing for WEEKS, but the average position remains mostly unchanged over the past month. Why can't you see that?

could you be more retarded? I doubt it. You're a waste of time Js...

Gunny, I agree with your entire post especially this part

I don't believe the people in our society have the backbone anymore to stand up to the hardships of what it would take to solve the problem so they're willing to accept yet another bandaid.

Americans are spoiled and self centered.