It's Time...

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Bullypulpit, Jun 19, 2005.

  1. Bullypulpit
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    Bullypulpit Senior Member

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    ...In fact, it's long past time. But with the new information presented in the Downing Street Minutes and other documents surfacing in London regarding contacts with the US an UK governments in early 2002, it is apparent that the Bush administration was seeking any pretext, no matter how thin, to invade Iraq.

    It is time for Congress to do it's duty under the Constitution, if they can remember that their first loyalty is to the Constitution and not their part or campaign contributors, and begin a Resolution of Inquiry. There is a growing body of evidence that suggests the Bush Administration mislead Congress and the American people into an illegal and unjust war of aggression against another sovereign nation.

    If Congress can see fit to impeach Bill Clinton for lying about consensual sex in the Oval Office, then a fortiori, they can impeach George W. Bush et al for lying about war and the justifications for that war.
     
  2. TheEnemyWithin
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    OK, Bully, we know. Bush lied, Bush lied, Bush lied, Bush lied, Bush lied

    We get the idea. Now can't you just shut the hell up for ONCE, PLEEEASE???????
     
  3. Stephanie
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    Stephanie Diamond Member Supporting Member

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    Didn't just lye about having consensual sex, HE LIED TO A GRAND JURY UNDER OATH......REMEMBER THAT PART ???????? I love how you guy always leave that part off your remarks about Clinton. With Bush that's just your wishful thinking. Stop kicking a dead horse in the head. :huh:
     
  4. Bullypulpit
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    Bullypulpit Senior Member

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    The lying to a grand jury is a given. He wouldn't have been impeached for lying to the press.

    And since you didn't deny Bush lied to Congress and America, I take it you are comfortable with the POTUS lying America into a war.
     
  5. no1tovote4
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    no1tovote4 VIP Member

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    When it was passed and signed into law in 1998 that the official policy of the US was regime change in Iraq I don't think anybody should be surprised that the POTUS, whomever they may be, might lead us in doing exactly that.

    That the American people are satisfied with their Congress giving up their power to Declare War on a consistent basis since Viet Nam is much more worrisome to me than the POTUS working toward a war in agreement with official policy. The whole of the US seems to miss the idea that the President is not the King, that they cannot go to war without the approval of the Congress and that the Congress has their own access to unblemished intelligence records AND TOOK NO ADVANTAGE.

    Blaming the President for following policy and working towards regime change in Iraq by saying he fooled Congress is simply disingenuous and relates a fundamental misunderstanding of the power of the President and the balances that Congress has. The American public seems all to eager to allow Congress to give their power over to the President when it comes to Declaring war and giving them a pass when they simply ignore their own sources in order to pass on the responsibility that lies expressly with them.

    Too often we give a pass to certain Senators who say they were "tricked" when they simply were irresponsible if they allowed the President the blank check necessary to self-declare us into a war. Too many are eager to take their excuses at face value in order to set the blame onto a POTUS if he is of a different Party. Set upon your Senator Bully-boy if you believe that this war is irresponsible, actually work within the Constitution and see where the responsibility actually lies. Read the document.

    Stop attempting to force upon one branch the powers of another and slavishly repeat the talking points of the Party who holds your mind under their sway, get beyond their embicilic assigning of responsibility to an actual understanding of where the responsibility lies if we are at war "illegally". There is no legal controlling authority over the President's power to take us to war except the Senate who gave him that authority, this war is not "illegal". The President cannot "trick" the Senate into war with bad information as they have their own "unblemished" sources.

    This is a distraction AND YOU FELL FOR IT (easy for them to do when you are one of those that wants so desperately to seek reason to hate Bush more), the Senate doesn't want the backlash of their actions to come back home to roost where it actually belongs, they want you distracted by the effort to blame anybody but them and believing (specifically those of the POTUS' opposition Party) that they are innocent in their own irresponsibility.
     
  6. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Actually I think the decision NOT to declare war has it's origins in the Korean War and the UN Charter. Those were scary, but still idealistic times. I believe it's way past time for the citizens to let their elected leader know we DO EXPECT THEM TO LEAD.
     
  7. no1tovote4
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    no1tovote4 VIP Member

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    Ahhhh yes, Korea. You are right. Every "war" since WWII has been simply "police action" as we have never Declared War since then. This abdicating of responsibility of the Powers of the Congress to the POTUS must stop, we pay these guys well enough to actually use the resources available to them to make the choices and take the responsibility assigned to them Constitutionally.
     
  8. Mr. P
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    Mr. P Senior Member

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    Unfortunately, "Lead" these days seem to be defined as, "how much pork can you produce for us?".
    Sad but true IMO, we are becoming a welfare Country, one in which the politicians pit, class against class...Give me, give me, the hell with anyone else.

    We may have already lost this Country. I donno..
     
  9. Bullypulpit
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    Bullypulpit Senior Member

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    If you read the legislation, no mention was made as to the involvement of US forces. Support for regime change was to be in the form of monetary and material support.

    As for Congress, most of them are complicit in that they ceded the Constitutional authority, which rests solely with Congress, to declare war. They are just as guilty whether they had access to different intel or not.

    The only 'distraction' I see is the US media leaping from one star's trial to another or the latest missing person story. The fourth estate prefers distraction and shallowness to performing their duty to keep the public informed with genuine news. It's more cost effective.
     
  10. no1tovote4
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    no1tovote4 VIP Member

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    It says will work within the UN for this change, they did. That was where the bulk of the argument focused. They got them to vote for a Resolution that threatened the action that was taken.

    They mislead you into believing the responsibility lies with the President and that they were "tricked". You are currently being lied to by the Congress and you eat it up because you want so bad for the POTUS to be responsible for somebody else's job.

    Distraction began when Kerry abdicated all responsibility for his vote and started attempting to say that he was "tricked", the talking points began on how bush "lied" us into war and were perpetuated by the fact that most of the US has no idea how Intel would be passed to the Senate and were unwilling to find out, especially those of the opposition party who wanted something for which to blame Bush. Kerry attempted to pass the buck, one of the main reasons that I would never, ever vote for him. He distracted from the fact that the responsibility lied in the body of which he was part, that he gave approval of the war, and that if it was illegal he was one of eighty-some of our leaders that brought us there.

    That you still repeat these talking points shows that you are fundamentally passing the buck to the incorrect source as well, that the distraction has worked for you. You seem to be intelligent, but work on emotion when it comes to Bush. He could cure cancer and you would blame him for putting oncologists out of business rather than celebrate the source of the cure....

    Info-tainment sources are clearly going after the ratings dollars, reporting that the Senate was irresponsible and how exactly they were is boring and would lose their audience share when compared to the movie channels. However, we clearly have resources that point to the information we need, we are talking about it are we not? For those that are simply relying on their infotainment sources to give them "news", do you really want them making decisions that effect your government?
     
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