Its time to stop supporting Cain

[Foxfyre]

4 instances.

Border fence

First position. Electrified with warning signs.
Second position. I was only joking.
Third position. I stand behind my first position.


9-9-9

First position. If you disagree your wrong.
Second position. Okay maybe exceptions for inner cities.
Third position. If you still disagree your math is wrong.
Fourth position. I haven't released all the details so stop complaining. (code for I gotta change it again please wait)


Negotiating with terrorists.

First position just before a debate. I would consider trading all gitmo prisoners for a US soldier.
Second position during debate. I would listen to my advisors.
Third position post debate interview. No way I would negotiate with terrorists.


Abortion.

First position. It's up to the family.
Second position. It's illegal.
Third position. It's up to the family.

He muddled the whole abortion thing so bad I honestly have no idea what he really believes and what he thinks the law should be.

On a side note social issues take a back burner for me.

Normally you and I are on exactly the same page and enjoy a mutual agreement fest, Grampa, but I think you're selling out brother Cain too quickly.

In every one of those instances, he was in a different context when he made a statement. For instance, I can 100% agree with his take that abortion should be illegal while at the same time think the federal government should stay out of it.

Like Sarah Palin was for awhile, Cain is currently the most coveted guest to put into the spotlight by every media source. ANYBODY who is speaking extemporaneously that much is going to appear to contradict themselves or present soundbites that can be made to look like something awful or stupid and used against them.

Cain, however, speaks from the heart and from conviction. He is not pandering to anybody and he defends his positions quite competently when given a forum to do so.

Please don't let the looney hateful left demonize, diminish, disqualify, or distort him as they do to EVERY leader the GOP raises up, most especially if it is a minority or a woman. We are severely outnumbered by media sources and the Democrats and a willing surrogate media aren't about to allow anybody like that wander off their reservation.

I don't know whether Cain is the man for the job. But I know he has said a whole lot more to commend him that are getting almost no play at all while media plays over and over the few useful sound bites that they use to convince even his admirers that he is a fool.

Let's don't let them do that to Herman Cain.

Don't get me wrong, I love Herman Cain, I think he is the real deal, I am not so fond of his 9-9-9 plan as I think it will raise taxes on 85% of Americans and for that reason I can't go along. That's a 9% income tax, a 9% corporate tax and a 9% sales tax on top of our state and local taxes. In my case it would amount to a 15.4% tax on everything I buy. Social security and medicare would still be taken out of our checks.

What concerns me even more is that you would not be taxed on used products, that would in turn encourage everyone to buy used goods to avoid the 9% sales tax. What would that do to the sale of new products, such as cars, trucks, appliances, clothing?? I think it would decrease the sales of new products, therefore causing even greater unemployment, because we make and sell new stuff- which creates jobs, we don't make any used stuff.

I am all in for a complete overhaul of our tax system, I just don't think this is the one that we need or want, certainly not if it's going to raise our taxes.

I like the 9% flat tax on income and the 9% flat tax on business income. I am not convinced the 9% sales tax would not be a dangerous VAT, but I also know Cain won't get that passed without convincing a lot of very smart people that it should be done. And I also know that with his track record and resume, he will alter a course of action when it isn't working or he is shown how something should not be done.

So, I also disagree on the 9% sales tax part of his plan, but that alone is not a deal breaker for me, most especially if he drafts somebody with the caliber of a Gingrich or Romney or Perry, all with MUCH savvy about how it all works.

I just don't want the viscious media and attack machine to destroy him so that he can't even be viable as a Veep choice. We let them do that to Sarah Palin. I won't stand by and watch it happen to Cain without speaking up though.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I would still like to see him on a ticket. Maybe with Newt's VP so he could gain some experience…

This is also just sad.

I just don't want the viscious media and attack machine to destroy him so that he can't even be viable as a Veep choice. We let them do that to Sarah Palin. I won't stand by and watch it happen to Cain without speaking up though.

It has nothing with ‘the media,’ ‘vicious’ or otherwise.

As with Palin, Cain is his own worst enemy.

 

[Foxfyre]

I would still like to see him on a ticket. Maybe with Newt's VP so he could gain some experience…

This is also just sad.

I just don't want the viscious media and attack machine to destroy him so that he can't even be viable as a Veep choice. We let them do that to Sarah Palin. I won't stand by and watch it happen to Cain without speaking up though.

It has nothing with ‘the media,’ ‘vicious’ or otherwise.

As with Palin, Cain is his own worst enemy.

It has everything to do with the weak and gullible and too-lazy-to-verify when a lie is hammered down again and again and again until it becomes part of the body politic and nobody questions it any more. It doesn't even have to be a lie. It can just be a half truth that gives an impression of something that it never was.

 

[Maple]

Normally you and I are on exactly the same page and enjoy a mutual agreement fest, Grampa, but I think you're selling out brother Cain too quickly.

In every one of those instances, he was in a different context when he made a statement. For instance, I can 100% agree with his take that abortion should be illegal while at the same time think the federal government should stay out of it.

Like Sarah Palin was for awhile, Cain is currently the most coveted guest to put into the spotlight by every media source. ANYBODY who is speaking extemporaneously that much is going to appear to contradict themselves or present soundbites that can be made to look like something awful or stupid and used against them.

Cain, however, speaks from the heart and from conviction. He is not pandering to anybody and he defends his positions quite competently when given a forum to do so.

Please don't let the looney hateful left demonize, diminish, disqualify, or distort him as they do to EVERY leader the GOP raises up, most especially if it is a minority or a woman. We are severely outnumbered by media sources and the Democrats and a willing surrogate media aren't about to allow anybody like that wander off their reservation.

I don't know whether Cain is the man for the job. But I know he has said a whole lot more to commend him that are getting almost no play at all while media plays over and over the few useful sound bites that they use to convince even his admirers that he is a fool.

Let's don't let them do that to Herman Cain.

Don't get me wrong, I love Herman Cain, I think he is the real deal, I am not so fond of his 9-9-9 plan as I think it will raise taxes on 85% of Americans and for that reason I can't go along. That's a 9% income tax, a 9% corporate tax and a 9% sales tax on top of our state and local taxes. In my case it would amount to a 15.4% tax on everything I buy. Social security and medicare would still be taken out of our checks.

What concerns me even more is that you would not be taxed on used products, that would in turn encourage everyone to buy used goods to avoid the 9% sales tax. What would that do to the sale of new products, such as cars, trucks, appliances, clothing?? I think it would decrease the sales of new products, therefore causing even greater unemployment, because we make and sell new stuff- which creates jobs, we don't make any used stuff.

I am all in for a complete overhaul of our tax system, I just don't think this is the one that we need or want, certainly not if it's going to raise our taxes.

I like the 9% flat tax on income and the 9% flat tax on business income. I am not convinced the 9% sales tax would not be a dangerous VAT, but I also know Cain won't get that passed without convincing a lot of very smart people that it should be done. And I also know that with his track record and resume, he will alter a course of action when it isn't working or he is shown how something should not be done.

So, I also disagree on the 9% sales tax part of his plan, but that alone is not a deal breaker for me, most especially if he drafts somebody with the caliber of a Gingrich or Romney or Perry, all with MUCH savvy about how it all works.

I just don't want the viscious media and attack machine to destroy him so that he can't even be viable as a Veep choice. We let them do that to Sarah Palin. I won't stand by and watch it happen to Cain without speaking up though.

Be forwarned, they will attack Cain, in fact they have already started. When the liberals feel their agenda, total and complete socialism, is being threatened they attack and they will do it with no mercy. And our liberal press is right in there with them to promote it.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Face it, there are no conservative candidate able to win the general election, most can't last one month as the favorite to win the Republican nomination. The only two who might appeal to moderate voters are Romney and Huntsman, but both are mormons and that is a deal breaker for the Chiristian Conservative 'cult'.

 

[Liability]

Holy shit.

He jumps to a surprising lead, but the hatchets start to whack away, and just as the Dims WANT IT, it is now happening. They are trying to make Cain just another "flavor of the week."

And what gets me is how so many otherwise intelligent conservatives fall for it.

Don't you guys GET it?

They WANT Romney. Romney is probably the one GOP candidate with the worst capacity to take-on President Obama on the issue that cuts the deepest and may end up mattering the most. He cannot successfully attack President Obama on Obamacare. He can't and he never will. They will roast him and toast him every time and any time he even tries.

So what's the sense in doing the Dims the favor of clubbing our own?

Is Mr. Cain perfect? No. Has he stumbled (like they all do from time to time) by engaging in a little "I was for it before I was against it" flipping and flopping? Sure. Not as badly as the Dim hacks want us to believe, but some.

And that's all it takes to get you to fall for their transparent trick?

I am re-thinking some things, too. I am re-thinking whether we are going to be able to defeat the threat posed by the modern American liberal political agenda if we can't even fend off this kind of bullshit sophistry.

I have a hint for all of you. They don't have to lift a finger to kill you if they can get you to kill yourself.

I don't agree with the apparent Cain premise on abortion. I am not completely sold on the overall efficacy of the 9-9-9 plan. And you know what? That doesn't mean that Mr. Cain wouldn't be a terrific President. We could do far worse. Oh wait. We already are.

 

[jillian]

 

[Liability]

If you are referring to the idiotic "thought process" you usually demonstrate, jilly, then I agree with you.

 

[Salt Jones]

Holy shit.

He jumps to a surprising lead, but the hatchets start to whack away, and just as the Dims WANT IT, it is now happening. They are trying to make Cain just another "flavor of the week."

And what gets me is how so many otherwise intelligent conservatives fall for it.

Don't you guys GET it?

They WANT Romney. Romney is probably the one GOP candidate with the worst capacity to take-on President Obama on the issue that cuts the deepest and may end up mattering the most. He cannot successfully attack President Obama on Obamacare. He can't and he never will. They will roast him and toast him every time and any time he even tries.

So what's the sense in doing the Dims the favor of clubbing our own?

Is Mr. Cain perfect? No. Has he stumbled (like they all do from time to time) by engaging in a little "I was for it before I was against it" flipping and flopping? Sure. Not as badly as the Dim hacks want us to believe, but some.

And that's all it takes to get you to fall for their transparent trick?

I am re-thinking some things, too. I am re-thinking whether we are going to be able to defeat the threat posed by the modern American liberal political agenda if we can't even fend off this kind of bullshit sophistry.

I have a hint for all of you. They don't have to lift a finger to kill you if they can get you to kill yourself.

I don't agree with the apparent Cain premise on abortion. I am not completely sold on the overall efficacy of the 9-9-9 plan. And you know what? That doesn't mean that Mr. Cain wouldn't be a terrific President. We could do far worse. Oh wait. We already are.

The "left" made Cain make a bunch of stupid statements and create a half assed tax plan? Cain did his own self in. The liberal agenda has won, if you don't believe me look at your kids.

 

[Full-Auto]

Holy shit.

He jumps to a surprising lead, but the hatchets start to whack away, and just as the Dims WANT IT, it is now happening. They are trying to make Cain just another "flavor of the week."

And what gets me is how so many otherwise intelligent conservatives fall for it.

Don't you guys GET it?

They WANT Romney. Romney is probably the one GOP candidate with the worst capacity to take-on President Obama on the issue that cuts the deepest and may end up mattering the most. He cannot successfully attack President Obama on Obamacare. He can't and he never will. They will roast him and toast him every time and any time he even tries.

So what's the sense in doing the Dims the favor of clubbing our own?

Is Mr. Cain perfect? No. Has he stumbled (like they all do from time to time) by engaging in a little "I was for it before I was against it" flipping and flopping? Sure. Not as badly as the Dim hacks want us to believe, but some.

And that's all it takes to get you to fall for their transparent trick?

I am re-thinking some things, too. I am re-thinking whether we are going to be able to defeat the threat posed by the modern American liberal political agenda if we can't even fend off this kind of bullshit sophistry.

I have a hint for all of you. They don't have to lift a finger to kill you if they can get you to kill yourself.

I don't agree with the apparent Cain premise on abortion. I am not completely sold on the overall efficacy of the 9-9-9 plan. And you know what? That doesn't mean that Mr. Cain wouldn't be a terrific President. We could do far worse. Oh wait. We already are.

The "left" made Cain make a bunch of stupid statements and create a half assed tax plan? Cain did his own self in. The liberal agenda has won, if you don't believe me look at your kids.

Lets compare.

Half ass plan vs no plan.

Very convincing...........

 

[candycorn]

Wow, that was fast. Easy come, easy go in the search for the latest "Not Romney" GOP candidate who is actually a conservative.

So what are our choices, then?

Romney? Again, I think that he's been at this for five years now, and he's never exceeded the 25% of GOP voters he had 4 years ago. He a virtual garuntee a third party will form.

Perry- Formidable fundraiser, has actual experience in governance. But it really looks like he decided to do this on a lark and doesn't have the oragnization yet.

Gingrich- Smarter than the rest of them combined, but more personal baggage than anyone would want to deal with.

Ron Paul- Nuts.

Michelle Bachmann- Crazy. And broke.

John Huntsman. - Dude, I think you are in the wrong party. Besides, he's broke.

Santorum- No, seriously?

I still think this fight for the soul of the Republican Party is going to come down to Romney and Perry, at the end of the day. Polls aside, I think Perry would have the better chance of beating Obama.

You guys should really give Huntsman 2nd look.

 

[Liability]

Holy shit.

He jumps to a surprising lead, but the hatchets start to whack away, and just as the Dims WANT IT, it is now happening. They are trying to make Cain just another "flavor of the week."

And what gets me is how so many otherwise intelligent conservatives fall for it.

Don't you guys GET it?

They WANT Romney. Romney is probably the one GOP candidate with the worst capacity to take-on President Obama on the issue that cuts the deepest and may end up mattering the most. He cannot successfully attack President Obama on Obamacare. He can't and he never will. They will roast him and toast him every time and any time he even tries.

So what's the sense in doing the Dims the favor of clubbing our own?

Is Mr. Cain perfect? No. Has he stumbled (like they all do from time to time) by engaging in a little "I was for it before I was against it" flipping and flopping? Sure. Not as badly as the Dim hacks want us to believe, but some.

And that's all it takes to get you to fall for their transparent trick?

I am re-thinking some things, too. I am re-thinking whether we are going to be able to defeat the threat posed by the modern American liberal political agenda if we can't even fend off this kind of bullshit sophistry.

I have a hint for all of you. They don't have to lift a finger to kill you if they can get you to kill yourself.

I don't agree with the apparent Cain premise on abortion. I am not completely sold on the overall efficacy of the 9-9-9 plan. And you know what? That doesn't mean that Mr. Cain wouldn't be a terrific President. We could do far worse. Oh wait. We already are.

The "left" made Cain make a bunch of stupid statements and create a half assed tax plan? Cain did his own self in. The liberal agenda has won, if you don't believe me look at your kids.

Studiously missing the point AGAIN, eh Salt Peter?

If you try real hard, even YOU could find the honesty and integrity in yourself to confess that I made no such claim, dick stick. Admittedly, it appears to be a long shot.

What I said was that the left (morons like Carbuncle, etc) are trying hard to get the Republicans and the Conservatives to devour themselves.

Mr. Cain need not be perfect. His 9-9-9 plan is not half-assed, as you falsely profess, but it could use some re-tooling. But even as it is, warts and all, it is still vastly superior to the imbecility we presently suffer under. Leave it to lefties like you to defend THAT status quo, though. Transparent, much?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

My opinion has nothing to do with the MSM. I'm quite capable of making my own observations outside of Fox or MSNBC or print. If Cain makes it to the actual election I will vote for him over Obama. But his indecisive positions will push my primary vote elsewhere.

And for the record there is nothing wrong with someone having an opinion different than yours. All this lockstep mentality is what got us here to begin with.

 

[candycorn]

i'm getting off the cain train. We still have time though.

why is everyone abandoning him now? I do not understand it.

it's called the process. There is still time to figure things out.

Maybe i'll vote for my dog buster. He is smart, loyal, and very charismatic. I think he would do well in the general election.

buster 2012

 

[Liability]

Wow, that was fast. Easy come, easy go in the search for the latest "Not Romney" GOP candidate who is actually a conservative.

So what are our choices, then?

Romney? Again, I think that he's been at this for five years now, and he's never exceeded the 25% of GOP voters he had 4 years ago. He a virtual garuntee a third party will form.

Perry- Formidable fundraiser, has actual experience in governance. But it really looks like he decided to do this on a lark and doesn't have the oragnization yet.

Gingrich- Smarter than the rest of them combined, but more personal baggage than anyone would want to deal with.

Ron Paul- Nuts.

Michelle Bachmann- Crazy. And broke.

John Huntsman. - Dude, I think you are in the wrong party. Besides, he's broke.

Santorum- No, seriously?

I still think this fight for the soul of the Republican Party is going to come down to Romney and Perry, at the end of the day. Polls aside, I think Perry would have the better chance of beating Obama.

You guys should really give Huntsman 2nd look.

Not really.

 

[Maple]

Face it, there are no conservative candidate able to win the general election, most can't last one month as the favorite to win the Republican nomination. The only two who might appeal to moderate voters are Romney and Huntsman, but both are mormons and that is a deal breaker for the Chiristian Conservative 'cult'.

Romney has a solid 25% support that's the important thing to remember and that support has not gone down, it's there and it's strong, the others have gone way up and way down. Romney is in the perfect position to gain more support. Huntsman is dead in the water, he is a liberal. Although both are Mormons, you can bet your buck wheat that conservative Christians will come around to Romney because any one of the Republican candidates is a far better cry than Obama. The know it, the whole country knows it.

 

[Salt Jones]

Holy shit.

He jumps to a surprising lead, but the hatchets start to whack away, and just as the Dims WANT IT, it is now happening. They are trying to make Cain just another "flavor of the week."

And what gets me is how so many otherwise intelligent conservatives fall for it.

Don't you guys GET it?

They WANT Romney. Romney is probably the one GOP candidate with the worst capacity to take-on President Obama on the issue that cuts the deepest and may end up mattering the most. He cannot successfully attack President Obama on Obamacare. He can't and he never will. They will roast him and toast him every time and any time he even tries.

So what's the sense in doing the Dims the favor of clubbing our own?

Is Mr. Cain perfect? No. Has he stumbled (like they all do from time to time) by engaging in a little "I was for it before I was against it" flipping and flopping? Sure. Not as badly as the Dim hacks want us to believe, but some.

And that's all it takes to get you to fall for their transparent trick?

I am re-thinking some things, too. I am re-thinking whether we are going to be able to defeat the threat posed by the modern American liberal political agenda if we can't even fend off this kind of bullshit sophistry.

I have a hint for all of you. They don't have to lift a finger to kill you if they can get you to kill yourself.

I don't agree with the apparent Cain premise on abortion. I am not completely sold on the overall efficacy of the 9-9-9 plan. And you know what? That doesn't mean that Mr. Cain wouldn't be a terrific President. We could do far worse. Oh wait. We already are.

The "left" made Cain make a bunch of stupid statements and create a half assed tax plan? Cain did his own self in. The liberal agenda has won, if you don't believe me look at your kids.

Studiously missing the point AGAIN, eh Salt Peter?

If you try real hard, even YOU could find the honesty and integrity in yourself to confess that I made no such claim, dick stick. Admittedly, it appears to be a long shot.

What I said was that the left (morons like Carbuncle, etc) are trying hard to get the Republicans and the Conservatives to devour themselves.

Mr. Cain need not be perfect. His 9-9-9 plan is not half-assed, as you falsely profess, but it could use some re-tooling. But even as it is, warts and all, it is still vastly superior to the imbecility we presently suffer under. Leave it to lefties like you to defend THAT status quo, though. Transparent, much?

Cain is a joke and even he knows that he isn't going to win the nomination that's why he has no infrastructure and is doing a book tour during the campaign.

I'm sorry you are suffering, this has been a great time for me and my family.

 

[candycorn]

Wow, that was fast. Easy come, easy go in the search for the latest "Not Romney" GOP candidate who is actually a conservative.

So what are our choices, then?

Romney? Again, I think that he's been at this for five years now, and he's never exceeded the 25% of GOP voters he had 4 years ago. He a virtual garuntee a third party will form.

Perry- Formidable fundraiser, has actual experience in governance. But it really looks like he decided to do this on a lark and doesn't have the oragnization yet.

Gingrich- Smarter than the rest of them combined, but more personal baggage than anyone would want to deal with.

Ron Paul- Nuts.

Michelle Bachmann- Crazy. And broke.

John Huntsman. - Dude, I think you are in the wrong party. Besides, he's broke.

Santorum- No, seriously?

I still think this fight for the soul of the Republican Party is going to come down to Romney and Perry, at the end of the day. Polls aside, I think Perry would have the better chance of beating Obama.

You guys should really give Huntsman 2nd look.

Not really.

Thats one way of looking at it.

 

[The Rabbi]

Why would anyone consider you relaible when it comes to advice about the GOP candidate? The very opposite. Anyone you think is good should instantly be suspect and anyone you ridicule ought to be a shoo-in.

 

[Salt Jones]

Face it, there are no conservative candidate able to win the general election, most can't last one month as the favorite to win the Republican nomination. The only two who might appeal to moderate voters are Romney and Huntsman, but both are mormons and that is a deal breaker for the Chiristian Conservative 'cult'.

Romney has a solid 25% support that's the important thing to remember and that support has not gone down, it's there and it's strong, the others have gone way up and way down. Romney is in the perfect position to gain more support. Huntsman is dead in the water, he is a liberal. Although both are Mormons, you can bet your buck wheat that conservative Christians will come around to Romney because any one of the Republican candidates is a far better cry than Obama. The know it, the whole country knows it.

Wasn't Romney better than McCain in 2008? Because the southern evangelical christians turned their backs on the Mormon back then.