Its time to militarily conduct regime change in Iran

1) Still, a kettle is a kettle and a fish is a fish. From the standpoint of American policy, the same questions apply: will regime change, such as we forced on Japan and Germany, last; should the US act to curb the national ambitions of a nation that is not directly threatening us here at home; how much in blood and treasure should the US be willing to spend to relieve the suffering of foreign peoples.

You should be willing to spill no blood. Stay at home, it's none of your business. And Japan and Germany are completely different scenarios...
The problem with America butting in in ME politics is that a lot of your politicians (especially the right-wing ones) treat the ME like it does Western Civilisations. News flash! They're not. Trying to impose western mores, morals and codes of conduct on foreign countries is pointless and arrogant. Don't believe me? Ask any right winger what they think of all the Mexican overstayers in the US, or how some suburbs in your mains centres turned in Chinatowns, mini Viet Nams, Little Odessas and you'll get some feel how people resent other cultures trying to encroach on theirs...

2) Iran has acted to destabilize the government of Iraq and through its proxies, Hamas and Hezbollah, it has acted to destabilize the Palestinian Authority as well as the government of Lebanon, and Hezbollah is reported to have significant presences in parts of Africa and South America; in addition Iran talks about about wiping out Israel in parallel with its efforts to develop nuclear weapons. Iran may not be expansionist in exactly the ways Japan and Germany were, but it clearly uses military force to expand its influence beyond its borders and provides strong reasons for us to believe it hopes to expand this policy when it finally develops nuclear weapons.

Is staying within your borders a license to do anything you want? Should the genocide in Rwanda have been immune to foreign intervention because it did not cross any borders? Would the gassing of the Jews have been ok if only German Jews had been gassed and only within Germany's borders? Certainly there will be a political purge in Iran in which many people will go to prison to prevent further dissent in the future and some in the government are talking about executing the protest leaders: is there a point beyond which foreign intervention is justified?

Iran tried to destabilise Iraq? Can you blame them. A western-friendly Sadman had an eight year war with them for no other reason than it suited US's purposes after Khomenhi embarrassed you on the international stage with the hostages. BTW, I am for regime change in Iran, but on their terms and with their people. It doesn't help your cause when you use extreme examples to try and illustrate a point.

I don't have a problem with Iran having nuclear power. I think all countries should use it. I have a huge problem with them having nuclear arms, but then I do with Pakistan, India and the US having them, too.


After the national armies were defeated, determined opposition to German oppression was rare, small in scale and not often supported by the surrounding populations, despite Hollywood's misrepresentations. Why should Americans have fought and died to liberate France when it is reported the French resistance at its peak never counted more than 200 fighters?

Because it was the right thing to do. Something your forebears who fought in that war understood, and why some call them the "greatest generation"...
 
1) Comparing Germany and Japan to the ME is wrong. Two different kettle of fish.

Incorrect, iran's governing structure is nearly identical to Nazi Germany's, and retains the same firecely religious, mystical belief as in Japan of an unchallengeable leader.

2) Japan and Germany were expansionist in nature, Iran has kept within its own borders.

This line borders on trolling...

3) The Europeans were willing to fight during WWII, but with the exception of Britain, they lost.

What does this mean?

1) Read my last post for an explanation re Germany/Japan vs the ME. I stand by my statement. Two different kettle of fish
2) Great, just what this board needs - anther arrogant know-it-all who 'decides' what is trolling and what is a point, and points out when Gunny 'should close a thread' :cool:. If you would like to explain why I'm trolling please do so. Iran tries to have influences over its sphere in the world for sure, but it has never shown any intention to expand its territory. Influence yes (who doesn't?), territory no. It may be a threat to Israel, but it certainly is of no threat to the US. Only sabre rattling right-wingers who love war seem to think so.
3) If you can't follow the thread of a conversation, don't ask a question. It was a very simple, easy to understand statement..
 
Well, given that:

1: The majority of rural iran propably supports Ahmedinajad
2: iran is quite big
3: Iran could, in the case of a war, cause a lot of asymetric damage to US interests
and 4: the military of the US is fairly overstretched

I regard military interventions in the Iran as a really bad idea.

Oh, and comparing Iran to Germany is total bullocks. Precisly what is Iran going to do? Even an acclaimed madman like Hitler did not use Gas warfare in WW2 since he feared retribution (he happily used Gas against those that could not retailiate), claiming that Iran will nuke Israel (and get nuked in return) seems hypocritical to the extreme.

Regarding the Lustania, she was listed as an armed auxillary cruiser in the british fleet register, she was under the command of the British admirality and an inquiry before a US court proved that she was carrying 1271 crates of various ammunition.
According to eye witnesses, the Lusitania was flying without a flag and with her name blackened.

According to sea law, the German U-Boat should have dive up and warn them before opening fire, they did not do so since the by far faster Lusitania would have gotten away in this case.

I regard the entire affair as a highly efficient use of human shield tactics.
 
1) Comparing Germany and Japan to the ME is wrong. Two different kettle of fish.

Incorrect, iran's governing structure is nearly identical to Nazi Germany's, and retains the same firecely religious, mystical belief as in Japan of an unchallengeable leader.



This line borders on trolling...

3) The Europeans were willing to fight during WWII, but with the exception of Britain, they lost.

What does this mean?

1) Read my last post for an explanation re Germany/Japan vs the ME. I stand by my statement. Two different kettle of fish
2) Great, just what this board needs - anther arrogant know-it-all who 'decides' what is trolling and what is a point, and points out when Gunny 'should close a thread' :cool:. If you would like to explain why I'm trolling please do so. Iran tries to have influences over its sphere in the world for sure, but it has never shown any intention to expand its territory. Influence yes (who doesn't?), territory no. It may be a threat to Israel, but it certainly is of no threat to the US. Only sabre rattling right-wingers who love war seem to think so.
3) If you can't follow the thread of a conversation, don't ask a question. It was a very simple, easy to understand statement..
RhodesStupid fails to acknowledge the fact that Iran hasn't attacked another nation for over 300 years.
 
incorrect, iran's governing structure is nearly identical to nazi germany's, and retains the same firecely religious, mystical belief as in japan of an unchallengeable leader.



This line borders on trolling...



What does this mean?

1) read my last post for an explanation re germany/japan vs the me. I stand by my statement. Two different kettle of fish
2) great, just what this board needs - anther arrogant know-it-all who 'decides' what is trolling and what is a point, and points out when gunny 'should close a thread' :cool:. If you would like to explain why i'm trolling please do so. Iran tries to have influences over its sphere in the world for sure, but it has never shown any intention to expand its territory. Influence yes (who doesn't?), territory no. It may be a threat to israel, but it certainly is of no threat to the us. Only sabre rattling right-wingers who love war seem to think so.
3) if you can't follow the thread of a conversation, don't ask a question. It was a very simple, easy to understand statement..
rhodesstupid fails to acknowledge the fact that iran hasn't attacked another nation for over 300 years.

well it is like when bush failed to find wmds and said...well...we know he was a really bad man...i mean how much more justification do you need to invade another nation and kill their woman and children ?
 
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1) Comparing Germany and Japan to the ME is wrong. Two different kettle of fish.

Not at all, the government infrastructure is nearly identical. In fact, iran used the Nazi model to design their current structure, albeit with different names.

1) Read my last post for an explanation re Germany/Japan vs the ME. I stand by my statement. Two different kettle of fish

Perhaps for the middle east as a whole, but iran is not only NOT part of the middle east, they themselves don't consider themselves part of it - and want to be as separate from the arabs as humanly possible.

2) Great, just what this board needs - anther arrogant know-it-all who 'decides' what is trolling and what is a point,

My comment referred to "iran has kept within its own borders." This statement is patently false, as all know, and is a re-phrase of the usual lie/nonsense: "iran hasn't attacked anyone in 3 billion years," or some similiar crap.

Applying military force and terrorism through proxies is offensive warfare; to claim otherwise exhibits an agenda that has no place here.

It may be a threat to Israel, but it certainly is of no threat to the US. Only sabre rattling right-wingers who love war seem to think so.

You must have a short memory, since it murdered 241 american GIs in LEBANON in 1983, plus 85 US staff members in LEBANON in 1983, and hundreds, if not thousands of American GIs in IRAQ over the past 6 years.

Neither of those nations is inside sovereign iran, so therefore, they ARE a threat to the interests of the US. There have been multiple incidents of iranian "diplomats" being expelled from the US for taking pictures of landmarks and other questionable behavior.

If you can't follow the thread of a conversation, don't ask a question. It was a very simple, easy to understand statement..

The statement made no sense, and was inapplicable to the thread.
 
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1) Comparing Germany and Japan to the ME is wrong. Two different kettle of fish.

Not at all, the government infrastructure is nearly identical. In fact, iran used the Nazi model to design their current structure, albeit with different names.

1) Read my last post for an explanation re Germany/Japan vs the ME. I stand by my statement. Two different kettle of fish

Perhaps for the middle east as a whole, but iran is not only NOT part of the middle east, they themselves don't consider themselves part of it - and want to be as separate from the arabs as humanly possible.



My comment referred to "iran has kept within its own borders." This statement is patently false, as all know, and is a re-phrase of the usual lie/nonsense: "iran hasn't attacked anyone in 3 billion years," or some similiar crap.

Applying military force and terrorism through proxies is offensive warfare; to claim otherwise exhibits an agenda that has no place here.

It may be a threat to Israel, but it certainly is of no threat to the US. Only sabre rattling right-wingers who love war seem to think so.

You must have a short memory, since it murdered 241 american GIs in LEBANON in 1983, plus 85 US staff members in LEBANON in 1983, and hundreds, if not thousands of American GIs in IRAQ over the past 6 years.

Neither of those nations is inside sovereign iran, so therefore, they ARE a threat to the interests of the US. There have been multiple incidents of iranian "diplomats" being expelled from the US for taking pictures of landmarks and other questionable behavior.

If you can't follow the thread of a conversation, don't ask a question. It was a very simple, easy to understand statement..

The statement made no sense, and was inapplicable to the thread.

I'm not getting into semantics over something where your knowledge seems limited.
As for the last statement, if you read the thread it made absolute sense. You seem to be the only one not making sense of it..shrug...
 
I'm not getting into semantics over something where your knowledge seems limited. As for the last statement, if you read the thread it made absolute sense. You seem to be the only one not making sense of it..shrug...

Freaking hilarious. Allow me to translate your last response into Modern Standard English for the rest of us:

"Clearly you are more informed on this topic than me, mentioned historical events I wasn't even aware of, and I cannot improve my standing in this thread, so I will just slither away, and hope you and the rest of the thread posters don't take too strong a notice."

Thanks for trying.
 
I'm not getting into semantics over something where your knowledge seems limited. As for the last statement, if you read the thread it made absolute sense. You seem to be the only one not making sense of it..shrug...

Freaking hilarious. Allow me to translate your last response into Modern Standard English for the rest of us:

"Clearly you are more informed on this topic than me, mentioned historical events I wasn't even aware of, and I cannot improve my standing in this thread, so I will just slither away, and hope you and the rest of the thread posters don't take too strong a notice."

Thanks for trying.

Can you explain to us, rhode, how iran is similar to Japan and Germany, when Japan had already attacked China and french indochina and Germany had expanded its territory through manipulating Chamberlain?
 
Can you explain to us, rhode, how iran is similar to Japan and Germany, when Japan had already attacked China and french indochina and Germany had expanded its territory through manipulating Chamberlain?

I started to make a list of similar components, such as the hegemonistic/imperialistic goals, government design and structure, repressive leadership, etc., but thought a better response might be, what do you think is different about them?
 
Can you explain to us, rhode, how iran is similar to Japan and Germany, when Japan had already attacked China and french indochina and Germany had expanded its territory through manipulating Chamberlain?

I started to make a list of similar components, such as the hegemonistic/imperialistic goals, government design and structure, repressive leadership, etc., but thought a better response might be, what do you think is different about them?

expansionism for one.
 
Freaking hilarious. Allow me to translate your last response into Modern Standard English for the rest of us:

"Clearly you are more informed on this topic than me, mentioned historical events I wasn't even aware of, and I cannot improve my standing in this thread, so I will just slither away, and hope you and the rest of the thread posters don't take too strong a notice."

Thanks for trying.

No, the translation would be better said: "I have been on political messageboards for 8 years and have had this argument a dozen or so times and can't be bothered going through the whole rigmarole again".

Suffice to say, anybody who even remotely compares Japan/Germany with Iran vis-a-vis the US acting as a nation builder hasn't a clue about the history of either situations.

Carry on....
 
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Can you explain to us, rhode, how iran is similar to Japan and Germany, when Japan had already attacked China and french indochina and Germany had expanded its territory through manipulating Chamberlain?

I started to make a list of similar components, such as the hegemonistic/imperialistic goals, government design and structure, repressive leadership, etc., but thought a better response might be, what do you think is different about them?

expansionism for one.

The USSR had satellites all over the Eastern Europe, and was a sworn enemy of the US. Iran has satellites all over the middle east, and is attempting to establish stronger terror cells in south america and europe as i write this. Through these proxies, it will be able to flex its weight - behind the presence of a formidable nuclear umbrella - an intolerable situation.

With the rise of China, Iran, and other non-free powers, the world could be entering a dark age for quite some time.
 
No, the translation would be better said: "I have been on political messageboards for 8 years and have had this argument a dozen or so times and can't be bothered going through the whole rigmarole again".

Suffice to say, anybody who even remotely compares Japan/Germany with Iran vis-a-vis the US acting as a nation builder hasn't a clue about the history of either situations.

Carry on....

I posted a detailed attack plan, go through my posts and find it.

I did not intend for the US to "nation-build", merely remove the cancer that is running iran currently. Iran has an educated, quite functional middle class, and could step in to institute a native, sovereign government in short order. I do not want a US beach head/dhimmi in iran, only a democratic nation that respects international law - and does not apply terrorism as a political method.
 

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