It's time to legalize drugs

[kwc57]

Most violent crimes involve drugs. Get rid of drugs, get rid of lots of crime.
Pretty simple, really.

Kind of like get rid of guns get rid of crime?

Both statements are equally false.

Do people lose their judgment when they hold a gun in their hands? I never saw it.
False comparison.
Try sticking with the subject here.

But interesting you bring that up. You realize you are a prohibited person and ineligible to buy a gun, right?

So you are good with outlawing alcohol again one can assume?

 

[martybegan]

First off, cannabis isn't addictive. Studies have been done on this many times by respected medical bodies.

Second off, if cannabis were made legal tomorrow, the increase in cannabis smoking would NOT appreciably grow. It would bump up a little, but would stay pretty much the same.

Harvard Medical said light use is less than 10 joints/day. Moderate use is 11 to 25, heavy use is anything above 50/day.

Besides.......cannabis is a plant. Why should mankind make something illegal that God created?

What type of crappy ass weed did they use in that study? If I did 10 joints of what my friends usually get I would wake up 50lbs overweight, on the floor, surrounded by White Castle wrappers and gallon containers of Ice cream.

 

[ABikerSailor]

First off, cannabis isn't addictive. Studies have been done on this many times by respected medical bodies.

Second off, if cannabis were made legal tomorrow, the increase in cannabis smoking would NOT appreciably grow. It would bump up a little, but would stay pretty much the same.

Harvard Medical said light use is less than 10 joints/day. Moderate use is 11 to 25, heavy use is anything above 50/day.

Besides.......cannabis is a plant. Why should mankind make something illegal that God created?

The experience in the Netherlands pretty much contradicts that nonsense.
No one is making something God created illegal. Only its use, sale and possession.

Got a link that proves cannabis is addictive when smoked? Got news for you, it doesn't exist. Harvard Medical and the Royal British Medical Society (as well as the CIA in the 60's), proved that.

 

[martybegan]

Most violent crimes involve drugs. Get rid of drugs, get rid of lots of crime.
Pretty simple, really.

Kind of like get rid of guns get rid of crime?

Both statements are equally false.

Do people lose their judgment when they hold a gun in their hands? I never saw it.
False comparison.
Try sticking with the subject here.

But interesting you bring that up. You realize you are a prohibited person and ineligible to buy a gun, right?

Why would I be? because of admitted pot use? Its a violation, and last i heard only felons are not allowed to own guns.

The comparison stands, no matter how much you dont like it. Saying banning drugs will reduce crime is exactly like saying banning guns will reduce crime.

Its nothing about judgement, its about the percived logic, and yours is wrong.

 

[The Rabbi]

Kind of like get rid of guns get rid of crime?

Both statements are equally false.

Do people lose their judgment when they hold a gun in their hands? I never saw it.
False comparison.
Try sticking with the subject here.

But interesting you bring that up. You realize you are a prohibited person and ineligible to buy a gun, right?

So you are good with outlawing alcohol again one can assume?

We're not discussing alcohol, Norbert. Try to stick with the topic.

 

[The Rabbi]

Kind of like get rid of guns get rid of crime?

Both statements are equally false.

Do people lose their judgment when they hold a gun in their hands? I never saw it.
False comparison.
Try sticking with the subject here.

But interesting you bring that up. You realize you are a prohibited person and ineligible to buy a gun, right?

Why would I be? because of admitted pot use? Its a violation, and last i heard only felons are not allowed to own guns.

The comparison stands, no matter how much you dont like it. Saying banning drugs will reduce crime is exactly like saying banning guns will reduce crime.

Its nothing about judgement, its about the percived logic, and yours is wrong.

Federal Form 4472, Question 11E "Are you an unlawful user of or addicted to...marijuana....."
If you answer yes, which you must, you are prohibited. Period.
There is no comparison. It is a falsehood.

 

[martybegan]

Do people lose their judgment when they hold a gun in their hands? I never saw it.
False comparison.
Try sticking with the subject here.

But interesting you bring that up. You realize you are a prohibited person and ineligible to buy a gun, right?

Why would I be? because of admitted pot use? Its a violation, and last i heard only felons are not allowed to own guns.

The comparison stands, no matter how much you dont like it. Saying banning drugs will reduce crime is exactly like saying banning guns will reduce crime.

Its nothing about judgement, its about the percived logic, and yours is wrong.

Federal Form 4472, Question 11E "Are you an unlawful user of or addicted to...marijuana....."
If you answer yes, which you must, you are prohibited. Period.
There is no comparison. It is a falsehood.

Actually in NY use is not illegal, Possesion is (and its not even a misdemenor, its again a violation). and since I'm not addicted I have no problem answering no to that. No "unlawful use." Plus I got one of the medicinal pot things somewhere in my sock drawer.

 

[Modbert]

The Rabbi doesn't seem to understand the implications of his wishing that we kill drug dealers and addicts.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Do people lose their judgment when they hold a gun in their hands? I never saw it.
False comparison.
Try sticking with the subject here.

But interesting you bring that up. You realize you are a prohibited person and ineligible to buy a gun, right?

Why would I be? because of admitted pot use? Its a violation, and last i heard only felons are not allowed to own guns.

The comparison stands, no matter how much you dont like it. Saying banning drugs will reduce crime is exactly like saying banning guns will reduce crime.

Its nothing about judgement, its about the percived logic, and yours is wrong.

Federal Form 4472, Question 11E "Are you an unlawful user of or addicted to...marijuana....."
If you answer yes, which you must, you are prohibited. Period.
There is no comparison. It is a falsehood.

Hey stupid.......you can't become addicted to cannabis.

 

[LAfrique]

William F. Buckley and Milton Friedman, two of the most respected conservative intellectuals of the late 20th century, were among the drug war's high-profile critics. These great thinkers did not argue that recreational drug use should be celebrated -- far from it! Instead, they argued that the prohibition of drugs was causing far greater harm to society than drug abuse itself. And they were right.

When I ran for governor of New Mexico in 1994, I promised to bring a common-sense business approach to government. Everything was going to be a cost-benefit analysis -- how much of taxpayers' money are we spending, and what are we getting for the money we spend?

As governor, I was astonished to learn that half of what we were spending on law enforcement, courts and prisons was drug-related, and yet illegal drugs were cheaper, stronger and more available than ever. After further study, it became obvious to me that the drug war had created a lucrative black market and was enriching and empowering violent gangs and cartels. In many ways, it was like alcohol prohibition all over again, with similarly disastrous results.

Gary Johnson: Face reality, legalize pot - CNN.com

The US is a drug-crazed nation where all sorts of drugs have always been legal. The drug war is all about the fact that others other than the usual major drug pushers - the pharmaceutical industry, FDA, politicians and doctors - are also profiting in the drug market.

 

[High_Gravity]

William F. Buckley and Milton Friedman, two of the most respected conservative intellectuals of the late 20th century, were among the drug war's high-profile critics. These great thinkers did not argue that recreational drug use should be celebrated -- far from it! Instead, they argued that the prohibition of drugs was causing far greater harm to society than drug abuse itself. And they were right.

When I ran for governor of New Mexico in 1994, I promised to bring a common-sense business approach to government. Everything was going to be a cost-benefit analysis -- how much of taxpayers' money are we spending, and what are we getting for the money we spend?

As governor, I was astonished to learn that half of what we were spending on law enforcement, courts and prisons was drug-related, and yet illegal drugs were cheaper, stronger and more available than ever. After further study, it became obvious to me that the drug war had created a lucrative black market and was enriching and empowering violent gangs and cartels. In many ways, it was like alcohol prohibition all over again, with similarly disastrous results.

Gary Johnson: Face reality, legalize pot - CNN.com

The US is a drug-crazed nation where all sorts of drugs have always been legal. The drug war is all about the fact that others other than the usual major drug pushers - the pharmaceutical industry, FDA, politicians and doctors - are also profiting in the drug market.

Motherfucker can you see what you just wrote? have you been to Africa? it is full of people hyped up on some kind of dope you retard.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

The Dutch experiment is a failure, as they try to stuff the genie back in the bottle.

I have a better solution: give each addict caught with drugs the absolute best rehab program available. If caught again, execute them. Execute dealers even on a first time offense.
That will solve the drug problem.

Not all drug users are addicts. I use pot recreationally, a few times a year. Drug laws are like all laws limiting "use of X". They are desgined to protect the weakest and stupidest people in our society, while preventing people such as myself a little bit of enjoyment when we want to relax.

We already have several legal drugs, alcohol, nicotine, caffine, so there is precedent, and most of these were legal prior to their regulation in the early 20th century.

Aggressive pursuit of eliminating drug use has resulted in increased crime, transfer of our money to said criminals, increased police power, lack of respect for the law, and basically zero elimination of drug use.

its time to try something different.

I agree we need to try something different. But turning this country into a nation of zombies isnt really what I would call a good change.
I proposed something different, and something with a proven record of eliminating drug addiction.

You mean like in Afganistan and Indonesia? Both countries have incredibly harsh penalties for drug trafficking, and yet, both of those countries have MASSIVE drug trades - 3/4 of all heroin in the world comes from Afganistan.

 

[MikeK]

You guys really think open air drug markets in the US are a good idea?

I would not advocate legalizing such drugs as amphetamines, freebase cocaine (crack) or any other substance known to be dangerously addictive and harmful both biologically and psychologically. But such drugs as marijuana, X (Ecstasy), even heroin*, can be judiciously used with little to no negative effect.

* Heroin has acquired a notorious reputation as an insidiously addictive and biologically harmful drug. But what is not generally known is both effects, which are widely observable, are the direct consequence of improper distribution via the illegal drug trade.

Pure heroin, like many other useful medicinal substances, is extremely toxic and must be diluted ("cut") to precise dosage levels. By the time the average dose of illegal heroin reaches the user it has been "cut" by several different dealers along the route from its origin so there is no way to know anything at all about its "purity" or dosage level. Some of it has been cut so many times it is 90% quinine or other dilute, or it has remained pure enough to kill any but the most heavy user, or it is contaminated with the broad variety of impurities which cause the ugly scars and lesions seen on the average heroin junkies body.

Clean, clinically produced heroin in carefully measured doses can be used to produce an hypnotically euphoric effect at regular and safely spaced intervals without producing any of the negative effects commonly associated with heroin use. And it should be known that injecting heroin is not the only way to use it, nor is it the best way.

Heroin can be inhaled ("snorted") just like powder cocaine or it can be added to tobacco or marijuana and smoked. In fact, some pot dealers will "lace" a batch of weak marijuana by diluting some heroin and spraying it onto the inferior leaf, transforming the "ditch weed" into what the inexperienced user will think is high quality pot.

Bottom line is heroin, properly produced, properly distributed and properly used, would not produce any of the negative effects commonly associated with it -- provided its availability is accompanied by effective public education.

 

[The Rabbi]

Not all drug users are addicts. I use pot recreationally, a few times a year. Drug laws are like all laws limiting "use of X". They are desgined to protect the weakest and stupidest people in our society, while preventing people such as myself a little bit of enjoyment when we want to relax.

We already have several legal drugs, alcohol, nicotine, caffine, so there is precedent, and most of these were legal prior to their regulation in the early 20th century.

Aggressive pursuit of eliminating drug use has resulted in increased crime, transfer of our money to said criminals, increased police power, lack of respect for the law, and basically zero elimination of drug use.

its time to try something different.

I agree we need to try something different. But turning this country into a nation of zombies isnt really what I would call a good change.
I proposed something different, and something with a proven record of eliminating drug addiction.

You mean like in Afganistan and Indonesia? Both countries have incredibly harsh penalties for drug trafficking, and yet, both of those countries have MASSIVE drug trades - 3/4 of all heroin in the world comes from Afganistan.

And both countries are rife with corruption and lawlessness. I heard the U.S. actually has a few soldiers there to try to restore order. You hear about that?

The Chinese faced this problem when the Communists took over. Opium had addled the entire population, from the Empress on down. The Communists made a proposal like mine. Within a few years they eradicated the opium problem.
Proven solution to a proven problem. Someone refute that.

 

[MikeK]

I can't even smoke a cigarette in a park or a bar and you want to legalize drugs?

You are free to smoke cigarettes in your own home (unless your wife won't allow it). And many (most) Americans believe the same level of freedom should exist for marijuana.

Are you opposed to that? If so, why?

 

[MikeK]

[...]

The Chinese faced this problem when the Communists took over. Opium had addled the entire population, from the Empress on down. The Communists made a proposal like mine. Within a few years they eradicated the opium problem.

Proven solution to a proven problem. Someone refute that.

The primary reason for the epidemic of opium addiction in China was public ignorance. The Chinese people simply were unaware of the addictive nature of raw opium and by the time they did become aware of it millions of them were already hooked.

The most effective deterrent to the negative effects of any recreational drug is education. Evidence of this is the fact that cigarette smoking has been reduced here in the U.S. by more than 50% as the result of motivated and effective public education (not law enforcement). I am an example of that fact. I smoked cigarettes for 35 years. But with the help of Nicorette gum I managed to quit in 1985 -- because of effective public education.

When I started smoking (in 1952) the harmful nature of cigarette smoking was only vaguely known and there were testimonials by MDs on the benefits of cigarette smoking. But when I and millions of other Americans learned the truth we quit. And millions more never got started.

One major problem with presently illegal drugs is most of the public information disseminated about them by government ranges from nonsense to laughable bullshit. The vast majority of Americans know nothing about presently illegal recreational substances and the most prominent message they get from government about drug use is televised images of S.W.A.T. teams kicking down doors. That works for some but not for most.

 

[Chris]

Although its capital is notorious among stoners and college kids for marijuana haze–filled "coffee shops," Holland has never actually legalized cannabis — the Dutch simply don't enforce their laws against the shops. The correct answer is Portugal, which in 2001 became the first European country to officially abolish all criminal penalties for personal possession of drugs, including marijuana, cocaine, heroin and methamphetamine.

At the recommendation of a national commission charged with addressing Portugal's drug problem, jail time was replaced with the offer of therapy. The argument was that the fear of prison drives addicts underground and that incarceration is more expensive than treatment — so why not give drug addicts health services instead? Under Portugal's new regime, people found guilty of possessing small amounts of drugs are sent to a panel consisting of a psychologist, social worker and legal adviser for appropriate treatment (which may be refused without criminal punishment), instead of jail.

The question is, does the new policy work? At the time, critics in the poor, socially conservative and largely Catholic nation said decriminalizing drug possession would open the country to "drug tourists" and exacerbate Portugal's drug problem; the country had some of the highest levels of hard-drug use in Europe. But the recently released results of a report commissioned by the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, suggest otherwise.

The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized, illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined and rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped, while the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled.

"Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success," says Glenn Greenwald, an attorney, author and fluent Portuguese speaker, who conducted the research. "It has enabled the Portuguese government to manage and control the drug problem far better than virtually every other Western country does."

Decriminalizing Drugs in Portugal a Success, Says Report - TIME

 

[JohnA]

I agree we need to try something different. But turning this country into a nation of zombies isnt really what I would call a good change.
I proposed something different, and something with a proven record of eliminating drug addiction.

You mean like in Afganistan and Indonesia? Both countries have incredibly harsh penalties for drug trafficking, and yet, both of those countries have MASSIVE drug trades - 3/4 of all heroin in the world comes from Afganistan.

And both countries are rife with corruption and lawlessness. I heard the U.S. actually has a few soldiers there to try to restore order. You hear about that?

The Chinese faced this problem when the Communists took over. Opium had addled the entire population, from the Empress on down. The Communists made a proposal like mine. Within a few years they eradicated the opium problem.
Proven solution to a proven problem. Someone refute that.

sure the commies eradicted the drug dealers and a few thousand others as well expecially those who didnt follow the party line
sure the commies created a nation where the citizens were drug free ,no personal choose free and not much freedom to do much else being able to enjoy a few drugs now and again would be a improvement in there social life

 

[Charles_Main]

Start with Pot, Ectasy, and shrooms. See how that goes as a test to look into legalizing others.

Pot, and shrooms sure. The Harder Drugs, Including X should be Decriminalized at the Possession level. IMO anyways.

I Am known as a conservative on these boards, but Believe me what I say I have done a wide Range of Drugs in my day. I have never seen someone Mess their whole life up using Pot, or even Shrooms. The harder drugs though, I have seen several people toss their lives away with. Coke, Heroine(Never did myself), Stuff like that.

We should stop wasting our Money arresting, Prosecuting, and Jailing Users of these drugs, as it has little effect. While continuing to Pursue the Distributors. I think they are just to dangerous to out Right Legalize because of the message it sends.

 

[The Rabbi]

You mean like in Afganistan and Indonesia? Both countries have incredibly harsh penalties for drug trafficking, and yet, both of those countries have MASSIVE drug trades - 3/4 of all heroin in the world comes from Afganistan.

And both countries are rife with corruption and lawlessness. I heard the U.S. actually has a few soldiers there to try to restore order. You hear about that?

The Chinese faced this problem when the Communists took over. Opium had addled the entire population, from the Empress on down. The Communists made a proposal like mine. Within a few years they eradicated the opium problem.
Proven solution to a proven problem. Someone refute that.

sure the commies eradicted the drug dealers and a few thousand others as well expecially those who didnt follow the party line
sure the commies created a nation where the citizens were drug free ,no personal choose free and not much freedom to do much else being able to enjoy a few drugs now and again would be a improvement in there social life

1) Is drug use beneficial or detrimental to society?
2) Is eradicating drug use a desireable goal?

The answers to these questions are obvious to anyone with 2 functioning brain cells. Using a tried method we have the opportunity to eliminate or substantially curtail drug use in ths country. That is what we need to do.